May 22, 20205 yr 20 minutes ago, Mike030270 said: I see those countries as examples a lot in here. I really don't think American citizens would have cooperated like SK and Japan citizens. Do you guys really think Americans would have early on? There were a ton of people that didn't think it was a big deal in the beginning. I don't mind as long as they are still using distancing 🤷♂️ Keeping cultural differences in mind is important, but there is still plenty to be learned by looking at other countries and that data is still applicable in many ways. For example when evaluating the effectiveness of lockdowns it's really hard to look at SK and make a direct comparison. Comparing the efficacy of the initial creating and distributing testing kits however I'd argue is completely fair game though as it is much more policy based than cultural. Another example: comparing death rate and economic outcomes in Sweden to the US I think is a lot less appropriate in evaluating the pros/cons of their soft lockdown approach than it is comparing them to surrounding Scandinavian countries. Context is important but cultural differences don't make the data worthless either IMO.
May 22, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, Smokesdawg said: Good god man... People fall for this sh** too. They are so clearly being manipulated.
May 22, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, VanHammersly said: For the most part, those people belonged to the same political persuasion. And at the same time, the President who they voted for was telling them it wasn't a big deal and it would disappear overnight. There's a pretty clear causation there. I think the compliance dynamic, at the beginning at least, would have been radically different under any other administration. People are willing to briefly sacrifice in this country. Long term, things become dicier, but asking the country to wear masks/quarantine if necessary/take tests for a month or so could've happened if the will were there in the beginning from the government. Instead, we waited a month later to start it, which people generally complied by for a month or so and then it started to fall apart. Take that month of compliance and move it back a month, add in rigorous early testing and we could've had a much better grasp on things. Both didn't take it serious in the beginning 1 hour ago, Phillyterp85 said: Compliance would have been an issue. Cultures are certainly different. I don’t think you have the same mantra of "no ones gonna tell me to wear a mask!!” attitude in Japan and South Korea. But ineffective leadership also plays a part. Makes it a lot easier for people to distrust the government when the government says, "don’t wear masks in public.“ and then a months later, "Oh wait, just kidding, wear them now”. I see far more people wearing masks than I did 2 months ago. Had leadership recommended this from the start, and led by example by doing it themselves, I bet we would have seen far earlier compliance with it. The testing fiasco was just a mess in its own right. As was state leaders waiting too long to take action. Too many state and local leaders waited until it was well apparent that we had significant community spread before deciding to do anything. I'm not so sure about that 1 hour ago, DEagle7 said: Keeping cultural differences in mind is important, but there is still plenty to be learned by looking at other countries and that data is still applicable in many ways. For example when evaluating the effectiveness of lockdowns it's really hard to look at SK and make a direct comparison. Comparing the efficacy of the initial creating and distributing testing kits however I'd argue is completely fair game though as it is much more policy based than cultural. Another example: comparing death rate and economic outcomes in Sweden to the US I think is a lot less appropriate in evaluating the pros/cons of their soft lockdown approach than it is comparing them to surrounding Scandinavian countries. Context is important but cultural differences don't make the data worthless either IMO. I wasn't comparing us. I've seen it and said it's not a fair comparison. America is too different
May 22, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, Smokesdawg said: Good god man... 2 hours ago, Mike030270 said: I see those countries as examples a lot in here. I really don't think American citizens would have cooperated like SK and Japan citizens. Do you guys really think Americans would have early on? There were a ton of people that didn't think it was a big deal in the beginning. I don't mind as long as they are still using distancing 🤷♂️ did she just say she wants to get in her knees? I know a good place of worship.
May 22, 20205 yr 37 minutes ago, Mike030270 said: Both didn't take it serious in the beginning If by "in the beginning" you mean January, then you're right. But if you mean anytime past the early days of February, you're wrong. The rest of February and most of March, it was strictly right-wing media and the administration that was downplaying it, which was completely insane since it was infecting people in the country all throughout that time. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/06/trumps-fox-newss-downplaying-coronavirus-wasnt-par-with-other-media-no-matter-what-you-read/ And even the point that's been brought up here over and over again by Trump defenders about Fauci saying that it's "not a threat" has been both twisted and mis-dated. Here's his quote: Quote "Obviously you need to take it seriously and do the kinds of things that the CDC and the Department of Homeland Security are doing. But this is not a major threat to the people in the United States, and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about.” That quote was from January 21, which was the date of the first infection. Trump and right wing media, on the other hand, we're saying the same thing 6 weeks later, as the cases were mounting and the deaths were rolling in. Here's a Fox News contribor and "Doctor" talking about it all through Feb and much of March: And here's the rest of the Fox News lackeys: And when Trump changed his mind, every single one of them changed their mind overnight. If you don't think the words of these idiots had an effect on the Republicans in this country and only Republicans (since no one else would take these people seriously and no other media was still this irresponsible) then you're out of your mind.
May 22, 20205 yr 1 minute ago, VanHammersly said: If by "in the beginning" you mean January, then you're right. Yes
May 22, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, VanHammersly said: And when Trump changed his mind, every single one of them changed their mind overnight. If you don't think the words of these idiots had an effect on the Republicans in this country and only Republicans (since no one else would take these people seriously and no other media was still this irresponsible) then you're out of your mind. Yep....
May 23, 20205 yr 12 hours ago, VanHammersly said: If by "in the beginning" you mean January, then you're right. But if you mean anytime past the early days of February, you're wrong. The rest of February and most of March, it was strictly right-wing media and the administration that was downplaying it, which was completely insane since it was infecting people in the country all throughout that time. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/06/trumps-fox-newss-downplaying-coronavirus-wasnt-par-with-other-media-no-matter-what-you-read/ And even the point that's been brought up here over and over again by Trump defenders about Fauci saying that it's "not a threat" has been both twisted and mis-dated. Here's his quote: That quote was from January 21, which was the date of the first infection. Trump and right wing media, on the other hand, we're saying the same thing 6 weeks later, as the cases were mounting and the deaths were rolling in. Here's a Fox News contribor and "Doctor" talking about it all through Feb and much of March: And here's the rest of the Fox News lackeys: And when Trump changed his mind, every single one of them changed their mind overnight. If you don't think the words of these idiots had an effect on the Republicans in this country and only Republicans (since no one else would take these people seriously and no other media was still this irresponsible) then you're out of your mind. It is important to remember this. Every time these people open their pies holes, lies fall out. They care about making themselves look good and the other side look bad. That's it.
May 23, 20205 yr Daily update from the doc https://www.nothingbutthetruthmd.com/2020/05/52220-covid-19-update.html?m=1 Good evening, WE COULD GET PEOPLE TO BUY PET ROCKS, BUT WE STRUGGLE GETTING THEM TO WEAR MASKS ACCELERATING COVID-19 THERAPEUTIC INTERVENTIONS AND VACCINES (ACTIV) An unprecedented partnership for unprecedented times JAMA Network May 18, 2020 It has been more than a century since the world has encountered a pandemic of this magnitude. Our ability to investigate and learn is far greater than it was a century ago but globalization has hastened the transmission of contagious diseases. The challenge is to develop a global coalition with all sectors of society involved to prevail against this virus. The biomedical research enterprises were more than willing to respond to the challenge but coordination between constituents has been lacking. Clinical trials of investigational vaccines began as early as January with the earliest feasible distribution predicted to be about 12 to 18 months away. Many clinical trials of experimental therapeutics had also been initiated but most were small and not well controlled. A controlled, randomized trial of Remdesivir showed some promise but the beneficial effect will be primarily on decreasing the morbidity of the disease. Not the sort of outcome beneficial to reopening society and or returning to "normalcy". There was no process to prioritize candidate therapeutic agents and no efforts to develop a clear inventory of clinical trial capacity. On April 3, 2020, the National Institute of Health (NIH) and leaders of many prominent societies, research, biopharmaceutical firms, and agencies both national and international met in an attempt to optimize pharmaceutical research and development operations to meet the challenge of Covid-19. The result of this meeting was a decision to form a public-private partnership to focus on speeding the development and deployment of therapeutics and vaccines for Covid-19. Four work groups were assembled to focus on: 1. preclinical therapeutics 2. clinical therapeutics 3. clinical trial capacity 4. vaccines On April 17, 2020, the NIH-led, ACTIV was formally announced. ACTIV's industry partners agreed to support prioritization of therapeutics and vaccines, irrespective of what entity developed them. Industry partners also indicated a willingness to contribute their respective clinical trial capacities, irrespective of the agent to be studied. The public partners committed to work at unprecedented speed on research and regulatory issues to drive expedited evaluation and rapid scale up, and manufacturing of candidate therapeutics with predicted successful outcomes. The goal is to share information, ideas, capacity and access, to accelerate the complex process of development. Especially important will be the ability to focus efforts on the most promising candidates. A steering committee has been formed with relevant expertise and objectivity to oversee the complex efforts. On May 6, 2020, the group presented its first list of repurposed agents recommended for inclusion in ACTIV's master protocol for adaptive clinical testing. Six agents have been identified that it proposes to move forward into the master protocol of clinical trials, expected to begin late in May. The vaccine group has been charged with accelerating evaluation of vaccine candidates to enable rapid authorization or approval. Development of trial networks that could enroll up to 100,000 volunteers in areas where Covid-19 is actively circulating. Multiple vaccine candidates will be evaluated and the most promising will move to a phase 2/3 adaptive clinical trial hopefully to begin by July 1, 2020. I am confident that hundreds of scientists have put their personal lives on hold and are willing to work long hours on these very important projects. I am equally confident that there are sufficient numbers of men and women with good intent and integrity to make this a success. The World is waiting the results of their great efforts. Numbers: 1800 from the Hopkins website Tests - no new data USA - 1,596,633 ( up 1.46%, down from 1.6%, 789 fewer new cases than the day before, but 23,099 new cases is a lot of new cases) New York - 358,154 (up 0.47%, down from 0.58%, 392 fewer new cases than the day before) New Jersey - 152,579 (up 0.67%, up from 0.51%) Pennsylvania - (up 1.38%, down from 2.88%, 882 fewer new cases than the day before) Maryland - 44,424, (up 2.05% down from 2.85% 315 fewer new cases than the day before) California - 88,665 (up 1.33%, down from 1.94%, 506 fewer new cases than the day before) South Carolina - 9381 ( up 2.24%) Texas - 53,070 (up 1.74%, up from 0.96%) World - 5,178,911 (up 2.02%, down from 2.17%, but over 100,000 new cases today) California continues to go up in bed utilization Have a good night Live Safely Be Well
May 23, 20205 yr 21 hours ago, BBE said: The closest novel threat was SARS which was overblown. Swine flu, avian flu, all more of a threat to livestock. This virus is different. And before you beat your chest about Obama and ebola, ebola was well known and characterized. Tom Clancy wrote a book about it being weaponized. I have zero argument that COVID-19 does not compare to the previous SARS viruses (COVID-19 is caused by a SARS virus as well) or Ebola. This is far worse. That doesn't change the facts of my post. The Trump admin was reached out to by a US firm who was willing and able to produce N95 masks. They took no action. There was a playbook for handling a pandemic. It was tossed aside, in favor of downplaying the threat and wishing the virus away.
May 23, 20205 yr https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/trump-admin-won-t-require-nursing-homes-count-covid-19-n1213141 Quote WASHINGTON — The Trump administration is not requiring nursing homes to provide data on COVID-19 deaths and cases that occurred prior to May 6, according to a public government document, limiting the accuracy of the federal data collection effort to measure the impact of the pandemic on older Americans. Quote In the absence of any federal tracking effort of deaths and outbreaks in nursing homes, numerous media outlets, including NBC News, have tracked the deaths using data provided by individual states. The most recent computation by NBC News found that as of May 11 at least 27,000 older Americans who were residents of long-term care facilities had died. Quote The number is an undercount, because some states did not report death data. The states also do not have a uniform method of data collection. More than 20,000 nursing homes residents had died by May 6, when the CMS reporting requirement begins. This is for deaths in nursing homes prior to May 6th and is a good example of why even the "deaths" stats/numbers are so very difficult to use if one is trying to compare one place (city, state, country) against another.
May 23, 20205 yr 3 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: I have zero argument that COVID-19 does not compare to the previous SARS viruses (COVID-19 is caused by a SARS virus as well) or Ebola. This is far worse. That doesn't change the facts of my post. The Trump admin was reached out to by a US firm who was willing and able to produce N95 masks. They took no action. There was a playbook for handling a pandemic. It was tossed aside, in favor of downplaying the threat and wishing the Talking points are all you have got. I admit Trump mishandled it. Every level mishandled it. And honestly, no administration would have handled it well.
May 23, 20205 yr 5 hours ago, BBE said: Talking points are all you have got. I admit Trump mishandled it. Every level mishandled it. And honestly, no administration would have handled it well. That is proven all over the world not to be true.
May 23, 20205 yr 17 minutes ago, Toastrel said: That is proven all over the world not to be true. Ok, Toaster. You missed the point and are operating under the assumption that every country is the same. It isn't. Every level of the systems the US has in place failed. Trump did us no favors except show just how broken the system is.
May 24, 20205 yr 57 minutes ago, BBE said: Ok, Toaster. You missed the point and are operating under the assumption that every country is the same. It isn't. Every level of the systems the US has in place failed. Trump did us no favors except show just how broken the system is. No. I operate under the assumption there are good responses and bad responses. The worst part is that the White House itself follows the rules that would help the country. They just are not doing so. I cannot say why. It is a fact.
May 24, 20205 yr 1 minute ago, Toastrel said: No. I operate under the assumption there are good responses and bad responses. The worst part is that the White House itself follows the rules that would help the country. They just are not doing so. I cannot say why. It is a fact. If only it were this simple.
May 24, 20205 yr 7 hours ago, BBE said: Talking points are all you have got. I admit Trump mishandled it. Every level mishandled it. And honestly, no administration would have handled it well. Well? Maybe not. Better and with a semblance of empathy? Absolutely.
May 24, 20205 yr 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: Well? Maybe not. Better and with a semblance of empathy? Absolutely. Yes on the last point, but with little difference in outcome.
May 24, 20205 yr Finally had to mute my own sister on FB. Enough with her "proof" linking me to Mercola and other sketchy sources lol.
May 24, 20205 yr 18 minutes ago, BBE said: Yes on the last point, but with little difference in outcome. You have zero basis for making that statement. Just your opinion.
May 24, 20205 yr crap. Apparently NC had a spike in confirmed cases that is the highest it's ever had. Likely because of being in phase 1 for a few weeks We just got into phase 2 yesterday too
May 24, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, Paul852 said: You have zero basis for making that statement. Just your opinion. As much basis as someone who says differently. And as someone with over a decade of experience in the biomedical sciences. But, maybe we should just defer to you, Paul.
May 24, 20205 yr Trump has made the response to Corona political. That’s why he has failed so spectacularly. Instead of encouraging people to wear masks and practice social distancing he’s on twitter attacking any state that supports mail-in ballots. And he’s back to accusing Joe Scarborough of murdering someone. Hillary would have struggled in this situation, but Trump’s gotten absolutely steamrolled. And every couple weeks he revises the death toll expectations by another 10 or 20 thousand and pats himself on the back. Great job, only 100K dead (so far).
May 24, 20205 yr I think things are going to get pretty bad when people go back to normal, thinking that the virus is over because restrictions have been loosened.
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