46 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Again,  the specific players in that trade is completely besides the point.  Substitute abby name with another of your choosing.  The point is, a team with that level of depth is going to be really,  really good. 

And what's not included in the post is accounting for the effect of a new coach with an actual offense,  abs all the picks that would be included in those trades. 

 

It's a good team. But it's also a treasure grove of assets again. So now,  you can try to get your support star again.  Assets re-stocked. Without needing years of tanking process.

That team you sent goes no where for the next 3 to 4 years aka they are stuck in purgatory aka Bulls/Wizards/Hornets. Good enough to barely make the playoffs, but out in the first round. 

Not to mention benches get shortened in the playoffs so depth doesn't matter. You need one star to go anywhere so as others have said you keep Embiid and trade Ben for a high level ball handler/wing who can shoot. 

 

Say that team is all on the Sixers now. What seed do you have them at and how far do they go? 

12 minutes ago, nipples said:

I understand where you’re coming from, but we have seen that having some high picks doesn’t automatically translate to landing can’t miss superstars. I think the better move is to keep Embiid, trade Simmons for picks or a PG plus a pick, and build around that. It’s far from guaranteed that the picks you get by trading both will get you even one player as good as Embiid. 
 

I guess I just don’t think this team is as far off as you do. There are weaknesses for sure (one glaring one being Brett Brown), but there is a solid enough base that just a few tweaks could make them contenders. I fully believe that Embiid can be a centerpiece of the team, with shooters/scorers out around him.  
 

I will be interested to see how the team looks without Simmons in the lineup for the foreseeable future. My gut tells me that it actually BENEFITS Embiid’s game to not have the offensive black hole known as Ben Simmons Fing up the spacing. And ultimately, I want to see what this team looks like with a real PG, Embiid, and a new coach. 

this exactly.

move ben for a guard who can both create & shoot...get a new coach...and see what happens. embiid is super talented & productive...trading him just to trade him is dumb, imo. 

3 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

That team you sent goes no where for the next 3 to 4 years aka they are stuck in purgatory aka Bulls/Wizards/Hornets. Good enough to barely make the playoffs, but out in the first round. 

Not to mention benches get shortened in the playoffs so depth doesn't matter. You need one star to go anywhere so as others have said you keep Embiid and trade Ben for a high level ball handler/wing who can shoot. 

That sounds good and I can live with it for a year. But when thats the plan, and everything revolves around Embiid, it wont be very long at all until everyone is frustrated that he is hurt again, that he is out of shape again, and all the times he gives no effort again. So probably after another year, everyone will be ready to trade him too. And after another year of all of that stuff, hopefully he still has as much value. 

5 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

That sounds good and I can live with it for a year. But when thats the plan, and everything revolves around Embiid, it wont be very long at all until everyone is frustrated that he is hurt again, that he is out of shape again, and all the times he gives no effort again. So probably after another year, everyone will be ready to trade him too. And after another year of all of that stuff, hopefully he still has as much value. 

yup, the fanbase is in such denial over these players, it's more like they are trying to believe they are the next LJ but they arent. like you said if they both get andrew bynum syndrome, this team is finished because all the money is tied to them and even if you get another superstar from draft, you might not pay him because they are stuck paying the money to these players.

Where does your super depth team finish in the standings this year and what round do they get bounced? 

 

 

13 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

this exactly.

move ben for a guard who can both create & shoot...get a new coach...and see what happens. embiid is super talented & productive...trading him just to trade him is dumb, imo. 

You just can't get rid of both of them and expect to compete in the next 5 years. I think Joel wants to be the man and put a few shooters around him will absolutely dominate. 

Beal for Ben 

embiid is already at an all-nba level. and you hope that a new coach would light a fire under his azzz & motivate him even more. he's looked dominant in the bubble so far. 

every player has weaknesses and comes with risk...but jojo has produced on the court.  with ben, we're all still hoping he'll develop a jumpshot but wasting the peak years of embiid waiting for it to happen.  spoiler alert...it won't ever happen. 

make me gm...i'll move ben for a proven guy like a beal, booker mccollum type who is ready now. 

1 minute ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Where does your super depth team finish in the standings this year and what round do they get bounced? 

 

 

Hard to say. We havent seen them together. I wouldnt expect that team to get bounced in round 1. So, itd do at least as well as we have done lately. And, on paper, it looks a lot better than what we have.

Teams without a big time star name- I look at the Heat and have hope. Same with the Celtics. Everyone  hypes up Tatum, but hes not a superstar yet. Hes inconsistent and hasnt been as good as in his rookie year. Yet theyre good. Heat have Butler but hes not a top tier name. Hes a tier 2 or 3 guy. And even with him out, they manage to beat good teams. 

Each of those teams might get bounced this year. But so will the 6ers. Many of you are under the false pretense that this team is a championship contender. It hasnt really been, and this year we are further away from that than we have ever been in the Joel and Ben era. 

You cant really knock our hypothetical new look team on your assumption that theyll get bounced, while hyping up our current team as if they wont. They will! And they have numerous times already!

We havent been good enough. Its about time to try something different.

3 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

embiid is already at an all-nba level.

for how many games in a given season?

6 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

embiid is already at an all-nba level. and you hope that a new coach would light a fire under his azzz & motivate him even more. he's looked dominant in the bubble so far. 

every player has weaknesses and comes with risk...but jojo has produced on the court.  with ben, we're all still hoping he'll develop a jumpshot but wasting the peak years of embiid waiting for it to happen.  spoiler alert...it won't ever happen. 

make me gm...i'll move ben for a proven guy like a beal, booker mccollum type who is ready now. 

About 2 years ago, Brand wanted to move Ben, reportedly. And owners wouldnt allow it.

I hope with all I have that theyll let him this year. But theyre stupid. So...

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

 

for how many games in a given season?

he was voted 2nd team all-nba the past 2 seasons & is putting up similar numbers this year.  yeah, he'll miss some games....but he's still a much, much better asset than the horford/noel tandem you proposed at center.   

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

About 2 years ago, Brand wanted to move Ben, reportedly. And owners wouldnt allow it.

I hope with all I have that theyll let him this year. But theyre stupid. So...

i actually don't hate ben trade you listed...lavine is good...but i'd hope he would be on the lower end of what they could get for ben.  but yeah...ownership is dumb & they won't do anything. 

7 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

he was voted 2nd team all-nba the past 2 seasons & is putting up similar numbers this year.  yeah, he'll miss some games....but he's still a much, much better asset than the horford/noel tandem you proposed at center.   

The awards are meaningless. You follow the team through every game. You know better. How many games is he really giving you that all NBA level play?

In my hypothetical scenario in which specifics were not supposed to be the focus, the talent was reshuffled to the perimeter and the C position got an athleticism and effort upgrade, but yes a skill downgrade. You dont need an all nba center to win. And if you think theres any trade where you are going to replace the Center position with equal talent to Embiid youre wrong. I know you know better so your point is moot.

Why do you think NBA contenders have for years been chasing guys like Tyson Chandler, Joakim Noah, Andrew Bogut, JaVale McGee, washed Dwight Howard? They dont need all NBA centers. They are looking for rebounding and rim protection. Their talent is focused on the perimeter. 

Also, dont forget the MLE if you wanna use that on a center in that scenario, you can. If you want to draft one you can. If you want to trade for one, you can. That scenario has you loaded with asset flexibility again. 

14 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

i actually don't hate ben trade you listed...lavine is good...but i'd hope he would be on the lower end of what they could get for ben.  but yeah...ownership is dumb & they won't do anything. 

I cant see them doing much better than Lavine or Booker, or McCollum as the top player in a package. But if you add like 4 first round picks to that deal which arent shown, then it might be pretty nice. 

Theres no scenario where youre gonna trade Simmons for a guy like Kawhi, Durant, etc. You gotta figure out which team with a LaVine level player can give you the best package of picks and depth players and go with it. 

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I cant see them doing much better than Lavine or Booker, or McCollum as the top player in a package. But if you add like 4 first round picks to that deal which arent shown, then it might be pretty nice. 

imo, if you're trading both ben & jo, picks would be important. if you're only trading ben & building around embiid, you need players more than you need picks. with embiid, you can't wait for picks to develop. 

ben for booker would be amazing, btw. sign me up! 

 

Just now, mr_hunt said:

imo, if you're trading both ben & jo, picks would be important. if you're only trading ben & building around embiid, you need players more than you need picks. with embiid, you can't wait for picks to develop. 

ben for booker would be amazing, btw. sign me up! 

 

Agreed in theory. Im not sure you get a package youre happy enough with if its just players for Ben. 

If you got a player like McCollum and multiple picks you dont necessarily have to wait for them to develop. You can use them to trade again. 

Lets say you got McCollum and 2 firsts. You can potentially trade Richardson and the picks for a SG improvement.

Now youve built a back court for Embiid quickly. 

agreed...as long as they wind up with established nba players.  otherwise, they're processing again. 

 idk what teams would even be interested in ben...but the most sixers trade ever would be something with golden state that brings us wiggins. 

4 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

agreed...as long as they wind up with established nba players.  otherwise, they're processing again. 

 idk what teams would even be interested in ben...but the most sixers trade ever would be something with golden state that brings us wiggins. 

2 possibilities come to mind. 

It will likely be an aging, injured and overpaid John Wall who will leave us even more cash strapped. But Brand likes the flashy splash name moves and no one knows how to assess team fit.

Or theyll try to sell us on a youth package like Ntilikina and Knox both of whom they liked in those drafts. 

If we are hitting re-set, we need Hinkie back. But that wont happen.

i don't trust brand with a simmons trade...and bret feels too much loyalty toward ben. idk if it's the australia connection or what. we're wasting our time talking about trades that won't happen. i said it before...the only way ben is traded is if he demands a trade. 

Just an example (small sample size I know) of how bad the starting lineup has been.  Horford/Embiid works, Horford/Ben has worked, but Embiid and Ben just don't seem to be working right now. 

Normally a team isnt going to trade a guy they just signed to his max rookie extension.

Normally a team wouldnt trade a guy like Embiid who is viewed as a Unicorn in philly.

Normally you dont trade a guy you just signed for 4/90, and probably cant considering Horford's age.

Normally you dont trade a guy like Harris who you just handed the vet max to.

 

But as dumb as this team is, they really cant think they are going in to the next season with this same group. I think we can rest assured, something will be done. Theyve admitted Horford is a mistake by moving him to the bench. And they are finally admitting Simmons PG experiment didnt work by moving him to PF. Which so far hasnt helped either. His production is dipping.

 

I think something will be done. But with Brand pulling the trigger it wont necessarily be good.

Or, youre right and theyll just trade Josh Richardson for something insignificant.

 

Looking at that Horford and Embiid lineup.  The pace is slower but come playoff time when things get more physical and slowdown I actually think that could be a pretty good lineup.  Still need a real ball handler though.  Shake isn't gonna be breaking down playoff defenders.

As of now we have pick 22 from OKC.  We are so close to losing that pick. Need more OKC wins. They are favored tonight. Hope they dont disappoint. 

Tatum is absolutely on the verge of a superstar like really really close.

Hasn't been as good as his rookie year? WHAT?!? 

Pre Covid he was an absolute monster at like 27ppg 7 rebounds 4 assists and had the 5th highest true shooting %. 

46 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I cant see them doing much better than Lavine or Booker, or McCollum as the top player in a package. But if you add like 4 first round picks to that deal which arent shown, then it might be pretty nice. 

Theres no scenario where youre gonna trade Simmons for a guy like Kawhi, Durant, etc. You gotta figure out which team with a LaVine level player can give you the best package of picks and depth players and go with it. 

They would be lucky to get Booker at this point. 

2 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Tatum is absolutely on the verge of a superstar like really really close.

Hasn't been as good as his rookie year? WHAT?!? 

Pre Covid he was an absolute monster at like 27ppg 7 rebounds 4 assists and had the 5th highest true shooting %. 

They would be lucky to get Booker at this point. 

Tatum is inconsistent. he has a good game, or hes completely off. Hes on par with Simmons. Not a true elite player yet.

Comparing those two players is laughable. One can get his shot whenever he wants and the other forgot basketball involves shooting a ball. Tatum is elite. 

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/4/23/21232333/every-shot-jayson-tatum-nba-boston-celtics