2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Sadly that team still isn’t winning a title next year or likely the year after. They aren’t better when teams like the nets, Lakers, suns and clippers are healthy. Atlanta is going to ge the tree with Hunter coming back and reddish improving. When Harris or brogdon have to be your no. 2 scorer/guy in the team you aren’t good enough to beat those teams. Brogdon and Harris are fine as your third options (still would like better options) but asking them to be more you really just aren’t good enough. 

The thing about being a team full of #3 options though is that those guys are always capable of having a big scoring night and being a #2 for that night. Thats how Atlanta is constructed. They have that 1 top guy scoring, and then they are a bunch of #3s like Huerter, Gallinari, Bogdanovic, Collins.... And they count on having so many of those guys that at least 1 of them is going to have the big night and be the #2. 

And, if you have enough, if your team is that deep... it works.

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

The thing about being a team full of #3 options though is that those guys are always capable of having a big scoring night and being a #2 for that night. Thats how Atlanta is constructed. They have that 1 top guy scoring, and then they are a bunch of #3s like Huerter, Gallinari, Bogdanovic, Collins.... And they count on having so many of those guys that at least 1 of them is going to have the big night and be the #2. 

And, if you have enough, if your team is that deep... it works.

It hinges on how big of a leap Maxey can take in year 2.  If he were somehow able to average 18ppg, than I think that roster I posted has potential to be championship caliber.

a bunch of #3's don't win titles. sure, atl has overachieved in the injury riddled playoffs this season...but they haven't won jack & are a game away from elimination. their success in the playoffs is a one-off. history has shown that elite superstars surrounded by role players win rings. 

bron & brow, kawhi, steph/klay/kd... on & on throughout recent history.

12 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

The thing about being a team full of #3 options though is that those guys are always capable of having a big scoring night and being a #2 for that night. Thats how Atlanta is constructed. They have that 1 top guy scoring, and then they are a bunch of #3s like Huerter, Gallinari, Bogdanovic, Collins.... And they count on having so many of those guys that at least 1 of them is going to have the big night and be the #2. 

And, if you have enough, if your team is that deep... it works.

And atlanta is likely losing to a bucks team without Giannis in the lineup. So how is that enough if they lose in the ECF to a bucks team that i don’t really think is a juggernaut or better than the teams (when healthy) i mentioned?  what are you just got a hope every year that those teams have injuries like this past postseason? The odds you get as many injuries next postseason as you got this postseason it’s not very likely. And that’s a pretty bad plan to rely on other teams getting hurt to be better then them  

I think you’re caught up in a season where you’re at likely not getting this type of postseason again. If the Lakers are healthy you are not beating them with that roster. The nets stay healthy you are not beating them with that roster regardless of your depth. Christ they had one healthy superstar and they still nearly beat the bucks with their top 3 guys. The clippers with kawhi and Paul George are better than that team. They are an Ayton dunk away from going to a game 7 down a top 5 player in the league. I don’t even think that team beats the Phoenix Suns. DeAndre Ayton is going to get better. Mikal Bridges is going to get better. Booker and Chris Paul are one of the best best backcourts in the league and Chris Paul is going to the Hall of Fame. Warriors get klay back with Steph and draymond and likely make a move to bring in a good third option with their assets. 

Let’s just be realistic in the last 10 years there’s only been two teams that have won a title not having a number two star: the Toronto Raptors in the Dallas Mavericks. Frankly you could argue Lowry is pretty close to a Star in this league and many do.

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

And atlanta is likely losing to a bucks team without Giannis in the lineup. So how is that enough if they lose in the ECF to a bucks team that i don’t really think is a juggernaut or better than the teams (when healthy) i mentioned?  what are you just got a hope every year that those teams have injuries like this past postseason? The odds you get as many injuries next postseason as you got this postseason it’s not very likely. And that’s a pretty bad plan to rely on other teams getting hurt to be better then them  

I think you’re caught up in a season where you’re at likely not getting this type of postseason again. If the Lakers are healthy you are not beating them with that roster. The nets stay healthy you are not beating them with that roster regardless of your depth. Christ they had one healthy superstar and they still nearly beat the bucks with their top 3 guys. The clippers with kawhi and Paul George are better than that team. They are an Ayton dunk away from going to a game 7 down a top 5 player in the league. I don’t even think that team beats the Phoenix Suns. DeAndre Ayton is going to get better. Mikal Bridges is going to get better. Booker and Chris Paul are one of the best best backcourts in the league and Chris Paul is going to the Hall of Fame. 

6ers have had to hope every year that the better teams had injuries. 

Youre never going to be a favorite in Philly. The super stars dont come here. Thats why the goal needs to be young talent and a top pick in the draft.

16 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

 

Let’s just be realistic in the last 10 years there’s only been two teams that have won a title not having a number two star: the Toronto Raptors in the Dallas Mavericks. Frankly you could argue Lowry is pretty close to a Star in this league and many do.

oops  

9 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

6ers have had to hope every year that the better teams had injuries. 

Youre never going to be a favorite in Philly. The super stars dont come here. Thats why the goal needs to be young talent and a top pick in the draft.

So because I have to hope every year that there’s injuries to be the best team you think just giving the depth means they’re going to wind up being better than those other teams rather than try to go all out in a trade for another star? So you still are going to not win a title but at least we have depth and likely pissed off embiid. So when you finally do hit on a superstar again they will see you didn’t treat embiid well and go all in so they’ll likely want to team up with another superstar elsewhere and leave. 

let’s just take a look at recent history. M the only team that has won a title not having a number two on the roster was the Dallas Mavericks at the beginning of the decade. Even the raptors had Kyle Lowry who at that time was in his prime and considered an all star. So your plan is depth meanwhile the NBA has shown pretty much of a decade unless you have that no  2 star you are unlikely to win  

And you seem to have this theory they just need to get younger drafted means they’ll be better off. meanwhile the 76ers have Fed up more picks then they’ve gotten right. Embiid, maxey and thybulle. Simmons  is why we are in the position we are right now. Meanwhile fultz, Noel, okafor and smith are awful. The sixers have had 4 top 3 picks in the last 7 years. They have hit on 50%. It’s not a given even with that draft pick they actually hit. 

1 minute ago, mr_hunt said:

this. and that mavs team did have jason kidd & vince carter. sure, they were waaaaay past their primes but two future hof'ers giving you 36 & 27 mpg in the playoffs isn't bad. 

Carter wasn't on that team and Kidd was done. That was Dirk carrying a team. 

the forever rebuild plan   

5 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

this. and that mavs team did have jason kidd & vince carter. sure, they were waaaaay past their primes but two future hof'ers giving you 36 & 27 mpg in the playoffs isn't bad. 

Also had Jason Terry who was a very good player in his prime. And shawn Marion who was an all star also just exiting his prime years. 

that said dirk carried them. So 1 out of the last 10 champions. So the 10% route is the way you want to go?

10 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Carter wasn't on that team and Kidd was done. That was Dirk carrying a team. 

 

sheet. i was looking the following year.   

I don't see Morey doing a deal just to do a deal. He's going to wait and try for Dame. They will spend all offseason talking up how hard Ben is working, how much he is progressing, etc. But Morey won't trade Simmons for a package built around Sexton or Brogdon, IMO. He will wait for a true star, even if that means holding Ben until next season's deadline. 

5 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

the forever rebuild plan   

What’s amazing about this is the sixers went into the process because they had solid young talent but never good enough to legitimately compete for a title or acquire enough assets to be able to go all in to win a title by trading for a Star

So now we want to go back to saving our young talent that’s not good enough to be a legitimate contender after embiid is done. Plus we want to rely on our drafting skills that over the years have wasted as many high draft picks as they’ve hit on. Legitimately they’ve had 6 top 10 picks. They got Noel, embiid, okafor, Simmons and fultz out of it. And they only got embiid cause he broke his foot. Otherwise they got Wiggins. 

8 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Also had Jason Terry who was a very good player in his prime. And shawn Marion who was an all star also just exiting his prime years. 

that said dirk carried them. So 1 out of the last 10 champions. So the 10% route is the way you want to go?

agreed. i f'd up & they didn't have carter that year but the point still stands. the nba is a superstar driven league & you normally need at least a couple of them to win a title.

Peja Stojakovic was a lot of fun to watch.  He would crush it in today's NBA.

6 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

agreed. i f'd up & they didn't have carter that year but the point still stands. the nba is a superstar driven league & you normally need at least a couple of them to win a title.

The issue is people are looking at the 2021 playoffs and thinking this is usually how it’s going to go from now on. That’s not the case. This postseason is an outlier to what normally goes on. Normally you have the Warriors with three stars or two stars depending on the year winning. Or Miami winning with three stars. Or the Cavaliers who won with 3. Or the Raptors with kawhi and Lowry. Or the Spurs who had kawhi, Duncan, Parker and ginobili.  That’s the norm not depth of roster with a bunch of 3 and 4th options 

just review the playoffs this year: the bucks needed harden and Kyrie to get hurt to barely get by in a game 7. The hawks needed 7 games to beat a team that had to play 5 on 4 on offense. There’s a good chance the suns lose in the first round if AD doesn’t get hurt. And there’s a good chance the suns lose to the clippers if kawhi plays that series. Heck the suns have two stars in Booker and CP3.

So if your plan is every year to hope in the postseason you’re just gonna rely on injuries to get you to a championship due to your depth then you are likely failing to win a Championship any time soon. 

20 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

So because I have to hope every year that there’s injuries to be the best team you think just giving the depth means they’re going to wind up being better than those other teams rather than try to go all out in a trade for another star? So you still are going to not win a title but at least we have depth and likely pissed off embiid. So when you finally do hit on a superstar again they will see you didn’t treat embiid well and go all in so they’ll likely want to team up with another superstar elsewhere and leave. 

let’s just take a look at recent history. M the only team that has won a title not having a number two on the roster was the Dallas Mavericks at the beginning of the decade. Even the raptors had Kyle Lowry who at that time was in his prime and considered an all star. So your plan is depth meanwhile the NBA has shown pretty much of a decade unless you have that no  2 star you are unlikely to win  

And you seem to have this theory they just need to get younger drafted means they’ll be better off. meanwhile the 76ers have Fed up more picks then they’ve gotten right. Embiid, maxey and thybulle. Simmons  is why we are in the position we are right now. Meanwhile fultz, Noel, okafor and smith are awful. The sixers have had 4 top 3 picks in the last 7 years. They have hit on 50%. It’s not a given even with that draft pick they actually hit. 

This was a lot of disingenuousness to read.

Ill keep it short and simple. Im saying if a team is built deep enough it might win. And obviously going top heavy hasnt worked for us. 

 

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

The issue is people are looking at the 2021 playoffs and thinking this is usually how it’s going to go from now on. That’s not the case. This postseason is an outlier to what normally goes on. Normally you have the Warriors with three stars or two stars depending on the year winning. Or Miami winning with three stars. Or the Cavaliers who won with 3. Or the Raptors with kawhi and Lowry. Or the Spurs who had kawhi, Duncan, Parker and ginobili.  That’s the norm not depth of roster with a bunch of 3 and 4th options 

just review the playoffs this year: the bucks needed harden and Kyrie to get hurt to barely get by in a game 7. The hawks needed 7 games to beat a team that had to play 5 on 4 on offense. There’s a good chance the suns lose in the first round if AD doesn’t get hurt. And there’s a good chance the suns lose to the clippers if kawhi plays that series. Heck the suns have two stars in Booker and CP3.

So if your plan is every year to hope in the postseason you’re just gonna rely on injuries to get you to a championship due to your depth then you are likely failing to win a Championship any time soon. 

yeah...if anything, i'd like to see them try to go even more star heavy.  sure, they'd have to give up young talent and/or picks...but they need a legit superstar to pair with embiid...a guy who is a #1 scorer at crunch time.  we know ben isn't that guy...and i don't think tobi is either. 

5 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

This was a lot of disingenuousness to read.

Ill keep it short and simple. Im saying if a team is built deep enough it might win. And obviously going top heavy hasnt worked for us. 

 

And your theory that depth wins titles has shown to be a false narrative over the past decade. The last 10 years shows you that you need 2-3 stars to win a title. And likely this year with Phoenix that holds true as they have two stars in Paul and Booker as they win a title. 

also please show me if the sixers acquired lillard any time over the course of roster construction they have had 2 stars like that in order to say top heavy didn’t work? Only one season that was with butler and they are arguably a kawhi shot away from potentially getting to a ECF and potentially winning a title. 

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

This was a lot of disingenuousness to read.

Ill keep it short and simple. Im saying if a team is built deep enough it might win. And obviously going top heavy hasnt worked for us. 

 

All those teams who had 2-3 stars had amazing depth as well. Chasing stars and not building depth to go with those stars is a mistake. 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

And your theory that depth wins titles has shown to be a false narrative over the past decade. The last 10 years shows you that you need 2-3 stars to win a title. And likely this year with Phoenix that holds true as they have two stars in Paul and Booker as they win a title. 

also please show me if the sixers acquired killed any time over the course of roster construction they have had 2 stars like that in order to say too heavy didn’t work? Only one season that was with butler and they are arguably a kawhi shot away from potentially getting to a ECF and potentially winning a title. 

Things are cyclical and many fans are short sighted. 

3 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

All those teams who had 2-3 stars had amazing depth as well. Chasing stars and not building depth to go with those stars is a mistake. 

yeah thats us...

And thats what people want to continue doing when they want to send Maxey out in a Lillard deal. 

The only way to get the stars and maintain depth is to go for up and coming players with star potential who dont cost as much as established stars in their 30s.

Sexton would be a better trade than Maxey and Ben AND multiple picks for Lillard. 

Just now, HazletonEagle said:

yeah thats us...

And thats what people want to continue doing when they want to send Maxey out in a Lillard deal. 

Unfortunately the sixers can't get another super star without trading for one and that requires trading any young depth they do have. 

7 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Things are cyclical and many fans are short sighted. 

How is it cyclical? 9 out of the last 10 champions have had 2 star players. 
 

mavs— dirk

miami-lebron, bosh,  wade and allen

miami— lebron, bosh,  wade and allen

spurs— Duncan, kawhi, Parker and ginobili

warriors— Klay and steph

cavs— lebron, kyrie and love

warriors— Durant, Steph and klay

warriors— Durant, Steph and klay

raptors— kawhi and lowry

lakers— lebron and AD

So 1 out of the last 10 years you have one superstar with great depth win a title. And a lot of those other champions that got depth did it signing guys to marginal contracts or draft and developing later in the draft   

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

How is it cyclical? 9 out of the last 10 champions have had 2 star players. 
 

mavs— dirk

miami-lebron, bosh,  wade and allen

miami— lebron, bosh,  wade and allen

spurs— Duncan, kawhi, Parker and ginobili

warriors— Klay and steph

cavs— lebron, kyrie and love

warriors— Durant, Steph and klay

warriors— Durant, Steph and klay

raptors— kawhi and lowry

lakers— lebron and AD

So 1 out of the last 10 years you have one superstar with great depth win a title. And a lot of those other champions that got depth did it signing guys to marginal contracts or draft and developing later in the draft  

 

before super teams, super team era, now becoming deep team era. cyclical. 

Lowry by the way was known to disappear in the post-season. The bigger part of their title win was Siakam's breakout year. 

There have also been years where some of the better teams had injuries and seemed to benefit us. So instead of just looking at which super teams won, you can also look at which super teams had injuries. And look at this season and see how many had injuries.

What you find is that building a super team doesnt make you a contender. Its the luck of being the last one remaining. More often than not, we will be the team dealing with the injury. We have Embiid. While these other deep teams are in position to capitalize. We are on the wrong side of the pendulum swing.