1 minute ago, mr_hunt said:

nah..i understood your dumb idea perfectly.

trade for a pick...then wait for that draft pick to (hopefully) develop into a star...even though the nba draft is always a crapshoot...wasting embiid's prime years in the process. 

that was your dumb idea. 

What makes it worse is he just thinks it’s a given the 76ers are going to hit on that pick. The 76ers had 6 top 10 picks in the last 7 years. The only superstar they have gotten out of that is Joel embiid. And they were lucky to get Joel Embiid because would’ve wound up with Wiggins if Embiid didn’t break his foot in the pre-draft process. So realistically they could even have less success 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

What makes it worse is he just thinks it’s a given the 76ers are going to hit on that pick. The 76ers had 6 top 10 picks in the last 7 years. The only superstar they have gotten out of that is Joel embiid. And they were lucky to get Joel Embiid because would’ve wound up with Wiggins if Embiid didn’t break his foot in the pre-draft process. So realistically they could even have less success 

yep...they hit on a grand total of 1 superstar going back to the beginning of the process...and he wants that superstar traded, btw.    

you'd think a sixers' fan would realize how difficult it is to get a legit superstar like embiid. 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

What makes it worse is he just thinks it’s a given the 76ers are going to hit on that pick. The 76ers had 6 top 10 picks in the last 7 years. The only superstar they have gotten out of that is Joel embiid. And they were lucky to get Joel Embiid because would’ve wound up with Wiggins if Embiid didn’t break his foot in the pre-draft process. So realistically they could even have less success 

We could land Green and then trade him for a project too 😆

5 years from now, the league will be center driven and Embiid will be broken/retired by then.  It's just the Philly way.

1 minute ago, mr_hunt said:

yep...they hit on a grand total of 1 superstar going back to the beginning of the process...and he wants that superstar traded, btw.    

you'd think a sixers' fan would realize how difficult it is to get a legit superstar like embiid. 

I'd personally trade Embiid and Tobi and build around Ben.

Now we are trading the MVP runner up and building around Ben.  This is fun.

Someone get Hollis Thompson and Jakar Sampson on speed dial.

20 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

nah..i understood your dumb idea perfectly.

trade for a pick...then wait for that draft pick to (hopefully) develop into a star...even though the nba draft is always a crapshoot...wasting embiid's prime years in the process. 

that was your dumb idea. 

I know what my idea was. The focal point of the deal was the pick. You are being purposely obtuse and pretending it was a trade for just backups. 

You can disagree with the idea. But it might not be dumb. It might be dumb to keep talking about Embiid's prime years like they matter at all. 

Just so we are clear went back to page 529 and onward. Only time i mentioned super team was replying to him saying i said super team and to Hunt about me going back to see how many times i said it. 

this whole thing started with me saying the brogdon trade wouldn’t make them a legit title contender or better than the nets, Lakers, clippers and suns if they were all fully healthy. I’ll add GS with the return klay and likely the moves they make this offseason. Ive said and continue to state you need a no. 1 option and a no. 2. If you go one superstar and a bunch of 3-4th options with depth, history of the nba over the last 20 years hasn’t been anywhere close to as fruitful as teams who had 1-2 star combo and had role players around them. IE utah jazz of the last 2-3 years. 

I could go back to the to when the sixers last won a title and show the sixers with dr. J and Moses, Lakers with Kareem and magic (worthy could be in here as well), Celtics with bird, Parrish/McHale, bulls with Jordan, Pippen, rockets with Olajuwon with drexler and bulls again and then finally Spurs with robinson and Duncan. The only team that didn’t have a 1-2 star combination was the Pistons. 

9 minutes ago, Khani1 said:

Someone get Hollis Thompson and Jakar Sampson on speed dial.

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Just so we are clear went back to page 529 and onward. Only time i mentioned super team was replying to him saying i said super team and to Hunt about me going back to see how many times i said it. 

this whole thing started with me saying the brogdon trade wouldn’t make them a legit title contender or better than the nets, Lakers, clippers and suns if they were all fully healthy. I’ll add GS with the return klay and likely the moves they make this offseason. Ive said and continue to state you need a no. 1 option and a no. 2. If you go one superstar and a bunch of 3-4th options with depth, history of the nba over the last 20 years hasn’t been anywhere close to as fruitful as teams who had 1-2 star combo. IE utah jazz of the last 2-3 years. 

I could go back to the to when the sixers last won a title and show the sixers with dr. J and Moses, Lakers with Kareem and magic (worthy could be in here as well), Celtics with bird, Parrish/McHale, bulls with Jordan, Pippen, rockets with Olajuwon with drexler and bulls again and then finally Spurs with robinson and Duncan. The only team that didn’t have a 1-2 star combination was the Pistons. 

Lets also be clear since you guys think you are arguing against me. How many times have I said we shouldnt have 2 stars?

Its 0.

9 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Lets also be clear since you guys think you are arguing against me. How many times have I said we shouldnt have 2 stars?

Its 0.

Where did i say you said that we shouldn’t? You did say that you can win a title with one star and a bunch of third options with depth. And i used factual evidence the nba over the last 20 years and really since the sixers last title shows that’s not going to work out favorably for teams cause that doesn’t happen often. Which is 100% true based off the facts and evidence

additionally you seemingly believe just cause we have the third pick in the draft that means we automatically are getting a Star. I keep bring up the 76ers have had 6 top 10 picks in 7 years and have only embiid as a superstar/star to show for it and it’s only cause he got hurt we have him otherwise you have none. So your plan of we will just draft a superstar in theory sounds great. However in reality the sixers have proven that isn’t so easy and tend to F it up more often then they land an embiid which they only got due to his injury. Otherwise they’d have the stud of Andrew Wiggins. 

Value is rising 

 

I really think people forget what the process was supposed to be about. It was accumulating assets so that you can either go to the draft or use those assets to get multiple generational type talents then build around them so that gives you the best shot at winning an nba title.

If we want to go the route of just going with depth of solid to very good players around one hopeful star (iguodala) then we are right back to pre-process days. where we hoped a guy like iguodala becomes a superstar and we have enough depth around him to try to win the title. Meanwhile the sixers were stuck in purgatory for about a decade trying that way 

So at the Moment you have a generational type talent in Joel Embiid and potentially the ability to trade a Ben Simmons and Tyrese Maxey (assets) to get another generational talent in lillard. Yet we can’t trade maxey because he might be very good one day. But we were all OK doing it for James harden 4 months ago who might be breaking down physically (now) and his playoff history with the rockets is disappearing in big games. 

I will just leave it at this if the 76ers had Damian Lillard and Joel embiid this post season they are still playing and likely facing the suns in the finals with a legitimate chance at winning a title. 

15 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Where did i say you said that we shouldn’t? You did say that you can win a title with one star and a bunch of third options with depth. And i used factual evidence the nba over the last 20 years and really since the sixers last title shows that’s not going to work out favorably for teams cause that doesn’t happen often. Which is 100% true based off the facts and evidence

additionally you seemingly believe just cause we have the third pick in the draft that means we automatically are getting a Star. I keep bring up the 76ers have had 6 top 10 picks in 7 years and have only embiid as a superstar/star to show for it and it’s only cause he got hurt we have him otherwise you have none. So your plan of we will just draft a superstar in theory sounds great. However in reality the sixers have proven that isn’t so easy and tend to F it up more often then they land an embiid which they only got due to his injury. Otherwise they’d have the stud of Andrew Wiggins. 

I never said 1 star. 

 

Ill lay it out for you guys.

We agree that 2 stars may be enough.

We disagree on the timeline. 

- I am willing to go for youth and  upside and protect the young talent we have on the team already because I don't think Embiid will ever be healthy to win us anything. So I dont care about his prime years at all.

- You guys want to rush to find the next established star, despite the cost of our resources because you think we might win with Embiid and want to hurry while he is in his prime. 

 

Thats where we differ. 

5 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Value is rising 

 

hopefully... unless no other team thinks hes worth beating that offer! 🤞

That is a strong offer to start out with though. So that hopefully bodes well.

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I really think people forget what the process was supposed to be about. It was accumulating assets so that you can either go to the draft or use those assets to get multiple generational type talents then build around them so that gives you the best shot at winning an nba title.

So at the Moment you have a generational type talent in Joel Embiid and potentially the ability to trade a Ben Simmons and Tyrese Maxey (assets) to get another generational talent in lillard. Yet we can’t trade maxey because he might be very good one day. But we were all OK doing it for James harden 4 months ago who might be breaking down physically (now) and his playoff history with the rockets is disappearing in big games. 

I will just leave it at this if the 76ers had Damian Lillard and Joel embiid this post season they are still playing and likely facing the suns in the finals with a legitimate chance at winning a title. 

the process ended years ago. 

6 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I really think people forget what the process was supposed to be about. It was accumulating assets so that you can either go to the draft or use those assets to get multiple generational type talents then build around them so that gives you the best shot at winning an nba title.

So at the Moment you have a generational type talent in Joel Embiid and potentially the ability to trade a Ben Simmons and Tyrese Maxey (assets) to get another generational talent in lillard. Yet we can’t trade maxey because he might be very good one day. But we were all OK doing it for James harden 4 months ago who might be breaking down physically (now) and his playoff history with the rockets is disappearing in big games. 

I will just leave it at this if the 76ers had Damian Lillard and Joel embiid this post season they are still playing and likely facing the suns in the finals with a legitimate chance at winning a title. 

Embiid's physical ability was siginificantly impaired and declining as time went on. No way of knowing how much worse he would have looked in the next 7 games, let alone the next 14. 

Just now, HazletonEagle said:

Embiid's physical ability was siginificantly impaired and declining as time went on. No way of knowing how much worse he would have looked in the next 7 games, let alone the next 14. 

Says the guy 2 weeks ago told me the sixers would beat the bucks and would beat the suns or clippers if they matched up with them lol 

Just now, HazletonEagle said:

Embiid's physical ability was siginificantly impaired and declining as time went on. No way of knowing how much worse he would have looked in the next 7 games, let alone the next 14. 

A lot of that was due to the fact he had to carry the offensive load.  Having a Lillard or other elite offensive guard would certainly relieve his duty so by the 4th he wasn't completely gassed from carrying the team on his back offensively the entire game.

6 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I never said 1 star. 

 

Ill lay it out for you guys.

We agree that 2 stars may be enough.

We disagree on the timeline. 

- I am willing to go for youth and  upside and protect the young talent we have on the team already because I don't think Embiid will ever be healthy to win us anything. So I dont care about his prime years at all.

- You guys want to rush to find the next established star, despite the cost of our resources because you think we might win with Embiid and want to hurry while he is in his prime. 

 

Thats where we differ. 

Legitimately your plan is the pre-process plan where you have to hope you select a generational type star (iguodala) and then have the young players around them like Thad and jrue just grow together to be a title contender. That’s what they did pre-process and they were stuck in purgatory. 

4 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

the process ended years ago. 

Ok but you can still apply the theory of accumulating another generational talent with the assets you have. You got one generational talent from it and can add another but you don’t want to cause embiid doesn’t stay healthy.

So really the Lakers never should’ve made that trade for Anthony Davis because he also never stays healthy. yet they’re sitting with a Larry O’Brien trophy for doing that trade. And I would say Brandon Ingram is a much better player and talent than Tyrese maxey in order for them to get the player in Anthony Davis

Ignoring the back and forth insanity, the point is having starts brings depth. That's the point being missed -- it's not either/or. When you have a team with 2-3 superstars, good veteran depth pieces will join for ring chasing. It has happened FOREVER. Rondo, Danny Green, Dwight Howard, etc. on the Lakers last year. All the guys who joined the Warriors. Guys going to Cleveland and Miami. The key in a league with an escalating cap and a max salary is to go star heavy and fill in the depth by vets who are attracted by the top talent. 

And let's be clear -- the super team thing didn't start in 2010, 2008 or 2001. Jordan + Pippen + Rodman. Bird + McHale + Parrish. The Showtime Lakers. What's new is the idiocy of the max salary which gave the power to superstars. In a world where LeBron James and Mike Conley have to be paid similarly, LeBron is the most valuable asset in the league hands down. So he can demand teams give him whatever he wants (non-monetarily) since they all have to offer the same money. Same for KD, Kawhi, etc. 

As for the idea that we would tear it down and not try to win with Embiid -- well, there's a 0.0% chance the Sixers do that. So it's really not worth discussing.

The right play is to try and get a superstar who complements Embiid and makes Tobi a nice #3 option. I can't think of a better option for that than Lillard.

1 minute ago, rambo said:

A lot of that was due to the fact he had to carry the offensive load.  Having a Lillard or other elite offensive guard would certainly relieve his duty so by the 4th he wasn't completely gassed from carrying the team on his back offensively the entire game.

Another good point. Maybe if we didn’t ask our superstar to average even more than 34 and 11 (taking out the Washington game he missed 3 quarters) in order for us to win then he wouldn’t be gases at the end the game and series. Maybe if we had lillard going for 30 nightly he doesn’t have to play Superman all season just to get the top seed and just barely get to a game 7. Maybe if he had another generational talent instead of having to rely on passing up dunks Simmons or Harris in critical playoffs series morphing into Robert Covington at the hoop he wouldn’t be completely exhausted. 

 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Legitimately your plan is the pre-process plan where you have to hope you select a generational type star (iguodala) and then have the young players around them like Thad and jrue just grow together to be a title contender. That’s what they did pre-process and they were stuck in purgatory. 

Ok but you can still apply the theory of accumulating another generational talent with the assets you have. You got one generational talent from it and can add another but you don’t want to cause embiid doesn’t stay healthy.

So really the Lakers never should’ve made that trade for Anthony Davis because he also never stays healthy. yet they’re sitting with a Larry O’Brien trophy for doing that trade. And I would say Brandon Ingram is a much better player and talent than Tyrese maxey in order for them to get the player in Anthony Davis

But if you do that, right now, you are going to have nothing else left. Nothing!

In the actual process we had a stockpile where you could make these moves when the opportunity presented itself, but the other buzzword was optionality.

NOW, we have no picks left from other teams. We are talking about trading our own future picks. We have no cap space left. We are above the tax just hoping to stay below the apron. At that point we even become limited on the moves we are allowed to make that other over the cap teams can make. 

We have no stockpile of assets, or cap space. We are already in the hole. 

It is not really the right time to make that kind of move. We arent in the process part of the process. We were supposed to be in to the title winning part. Came up short. The cast around our superstar wasnt good enough, and he isnt healthy enough to matter either.

7 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Legitimately your plan is the pre-process plan where you have to hope you select a generational type star (iguodala) and then have the young players around them like Thad and jrue just grow together to be a title contender. That’s what they did pre-process and they were stuck in purgatory. 

 

You have to get those pre-process pieces if you want to try to process again. Trade them all away, you cant process.

6 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Ignoring the back and forth insanity, the point is having starts brings depth. That's the point being missed -- it's not either/or. When you have a team with 2-3 superstars, good veteran depth pieces will join for ring chasing. It has happened FOREVER. Rondo, Danny Green, Dwight Howard, etc. on the Lakers last year. All the guys who joined the Warriors. Guys going to Cleveland and Miami. The key in a league with an escalating cap and a max salary is to go star heavy and fill in the depth by vets who are attracted by the top talent. 

And let's be clear -- the super team thing didn't start in 2010, 2008 or 2001. Jordan + Pippen + Rodman. Bird + McHale + Parrish. The Showtime Lakers. What's new is the idiocy of the max salary which gave the power to superstars. In a world where LeBron James and Mike Conley have to be paid similarly, LeBron is the most valuable asset in the league hands down. So he can demand teams give him whatever he wants (non-monetarily) since they all have to offer the same money. Same for KD, Kawhi, etc. 

As for the idea that we would tear it down and not try to win with Embiid -- well, there's a 0.0% chance the Sixers do that. So it's really not worth discussing.

The right play is to try and get a superstar who complements Embiid and makes Tobi a nice #3 option. I can't think of a better option for that than Lillard.

You also are forgetting something though. In those years we also had Embiid and Simmons, and no one ever came here. Stars didnt bring depth to Philly. It doesnt work that way for us. 

We have to work the opposite way. We have to accumulate talent, and picks. And we have to use those things to bring the talent via trades.