1 hour ago, JBENT87 said:

quoted the wrong post here my bad - but yeah in my expansion on this deal below let's say Warren goes to POR and we keep Levert. I thought I was responding to a post that said this offer was too much to give up, FWIW.

Outgoing players:

TJ Warren - nice 2 way vet. Supposedly an a-hole though. Can't miss what ya never had. 

Maxey - lot of upside. But upside doesn't mean crap when you're trying to win a Championship and the opposing GM knows that.

Thybulle - if he gets a shot he's probably a top 30 player. As we can attest to though, some guys just don't ever get that shot. And we just saw how overrated defensive minded players are in the NBA postseason, as our team with Thybulle and Ben couldn't beat the freaking Atlanta Hawks. Seriously, spare me with defense going forward. 

Picks:

from IND: 13th OVR + 2023 top 3 protected - valuable, especially obviously the latter. 

from PHI: lets get the swap rights out of the way first. Whoever started including these in trade talks is a genius. Because they are most likely not going to materialize. Sure, in the off chance that Lilliard and Embiid just dont work or both get injured, then yeah maybe we finish with a worse record than the Pacers. We're not going to unless that happens. So take them out, they aren't going to turn into anything.

2021 28th overall - spare me with this pick. borderline meaningless/essentially early 2nd rd pick except without needing to guarantee the salary. 

2023 unprotected - again, you're now the team with Lillard and Embiid. You should finally be competing for ECF supremacy and at least have one ECF/Finals appearnce over the next couple seasons. So this is another pick around 28. Goodbye. 

2025 top 3 - finally, the most valuable part of the trade. An almost unprotected pick, at the twilight of Embiid and Lilllards careers, maybe. Even still, you're protected at the top of the draft with the elite franchise players. 

 

This trade is more fair than you want to admit. POR GM knows you will mortgage the future to make Embiid happy / know that Simmons needs to be moved for an elite guard. Maybe you get Covington and a guard back from POR to help with your depth. But the headline here is adding Lillard to Embiid. You need to make it happen and everyone knows it. Or sit back and watch this window continue to close. 

 

Couple things that 2025 pick belongs to OKC unless it finishes top 6. So the value of it being protected top 3 means Portland could only get it if it’s 4-6. You likely are giving up 2027 and having a top 6 protection instead of 2025. 

As for the players, warren is a FA at the end of 2021-22. He’s likely not re-signing in Portland in a rebuild. So they’d have to use him as an expiring contract at the end deadline. Cause at the moment coming off injury the value isn’t as high for warren so they need him to play to get the most on his value at the deadline before he walks in FA. So the appeal of warren isn’t as much as one would believe for Portland 

maxey is tough to give up but if the sixers make a move for a Star I’m betting Darryl morey doesn’t think twice about pulling that trigger. Thybulle you’d like to keep as well  but you aren’t giving up nothing for an all star and morey is in the business of getting a Star here. So he’s likely willing to overpay to get it if that’s the cost.

Even if the sixers don’t trade for lillard or a Star, I’d bet morey trades 28 anyway. Hoffman and bodner and blomain have discussed he’s basically done that in houston a numerous amount of times. So that 28th pick is may not be here anyway. And if you did get a Star/lillard that 2023 first rounder is likely looking at 25-30th. 

In this trade the sixers wind up with lillard and levert for basically Simmons, maxey, thybulle, 13th pick, indys 2023 (likely middle of the road pick), 28th pick, 2023 first and 2025/7 top 6 protected first? 

 

Lillard is better than all those combinations.

  quality >>> quantity every time in the nba.   always get the best player in a trade. Dame is way more valuable than 2-3 role players even if 1 is a "borderline " all star.

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Couple things that 2025 pick belongs to OKC unless it finishes top 6. So the value of it being protected top 3 means Portland could only get it if it’s 4-6. You likely are giving up 2027 and having a top 6 protection instead of 2025. 

As for the players, warren is a FA at the end of 2021-22. He’s likely not re-signing in Portland in a rebuild. So they’d have to use him as an expiring contract at the end deadline. Cause at the moment coming off injury the value isn’t as high for warren so they need him to play to get the most on his value at the deadline before he walks in FA. So the appeal of warren isn’t as much as one would believe for Portland 

maxey is tough to give up but if the sixers make a move for a Star I’m betting Darryl morey doesn’t think twice about pulling that trigger. Thybulle you’d like to keep as well  but you aren’t giving up nothing for an all star and morey is in the business of getting a Star here. So he’s likely willing to overpay to get it if that’s the cost.

Even if the sixers don’t trade for lillard or a Star, I’d bet morey trades 28 anyway. Hoffman and bodner and blomain have discussed he’s basically done that in houston a numerous amount of times. So that 28th pick is may not be here anyway. And if you did get a Star/lillard that 2023 first rounder is likely looking at 25-30th. 

In this trade the sixers wind up with lillard and levert for basically Simmons, maxey, thybulle, 13th pick, indys 2023 (likely middle of the road pick), 28th pick, 2023 first and 2025/7 top 6 protected first? 

 

You can look at their inactivity in draft scouting and reasonably conclude they arent really planning on using that 28th pick. It could just be that theyre keeping things hush hush this time. But its really quiet on the workout front. One of the guys theyve reportedly worked out went back to school. Another guy is from Lafayette. I doube he is getting drafted. Theres only 1 other guy theyve worked out, that we know of.

Last year 76ers.com had like daily updates on prospects being brought in in groups. There is absolutely nothing on their site about prospects this year. Havent found anything on hoopshype either which has the twitter hotwire.

12 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

You can look at their inactivity in draft scouting and reasonably conclude they arent really planning on using that 28th pick. It could just be that theyre keeping things hush hush this time. But its really quiet on the workout front. One of the guys theyve reportedly worked out went back to school. Another guy is from Lafayette. I doube he is getting drafted. Theres only 1 other guy theyve worked out, that we know of.

Last year 76ers.com had like daily updates on prospects being brought in in groups. There is absolutely nothing on their site about prospects this year. Havent found anything on hoopshype either which has the twitter hotwire.

Yeah makes sense. Frankly not sure they want to guarantee the money nor think there’s a prospect they love that will be there or a group of players they could just try to move up in the second round to get instead. I’ve listened to a bunch of different podcasts with local writers and National. The sentiment is that pick is likely not staying with the sixers and used in some sort of trade package. If a Simmons trade is not done by the draft, I wonder if it goes in a trade with the horford trade exception to get someone they want. 

12 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Yeah makes sense. Frankly not sure they want to guarantee the money nor think there’s a prospect they love that will be there or a group of players they could just try to move up in the second round to get instead. I’ve listened to a bunch of different podcasts with local writers and National. The sentiment is that pick is likely not staying with the sixers and used in some sort of trade package. If a Simmons trade is not done by the draft, I wonder if it goes in a trade with the horford trade exception to get someone they want. 

I dont think they can combine anything at all with the trade exception though. It almost has to go in to a Simmons trade.

29 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I dont think they can combine anything at all with the trade exception though. It almost has to go in to a Simmons trade.

I thought it was you couldn’t add salary with players exchanged but picks you could. I know bodner had an article about this. I have to go search and find it. 

Couldn’t find the bodner article but from the Ricky 

In the trade, the Sixers created an $8.2M trade exception. What that means is they, without sending out any centers, are allowed to absorb up to $8.2M in a trade. They can’t combine the $8.2M with the salary of someone under contract, though. Think of it as a portal of sorts, one with which the Sixers can eat up to that $8.2M figure.

24 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Couldn’t find the bodner article but from the Ricky 

In the trade, the Sixers created an $8.2M trade exception. What that means is they, without sending out any centers, are allowed to absorb up to $8.2M in a trade. They can’t combine the $8.2M with the salary of someone under contract, though. Think of it as a portal of sorts, one with which the Sixers can eat up to that $8.2M figure.

As I understand it (and I may be wrong), we are allowed to absorb more salary in a trade even though we are over the cap. Thats one way to utilize it. So the salaries dont have to be as close. Normally they have to be within 10%, but we can actually take on an extra 8.2M For example if George Hill is 10M outgoing, we can take back a player for like 18M even though that wouldnt regularly be allowed when we are already over the cap.

Thats one scenario,

But I think teams sometimes trade away that ability to absorb that extra money, when they trade away the trade exception. In that scenario I didnt think you can attach anything else to it in a trade. Not players, or picks. 

Thats using the trade exception vs trading the trade exception.

 

Well here is an answer. 

• Quote

  Trade exceptions created in non-simultaneous trades can’t be combined with one another, with other exceptions, or with a player’s salary; they can’t be used to sign a free agent; and they can’t be traded outright to another team.

  That, and an whole lot more info and examples on TPEs can be found here.

• https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/02/hoops-rumors-glossary-traded-player-exception.html

2 hours ago, mr_hunt said:

Lillard is better than all those combinations.

  quality >>> quantity every time in the nba.   always get the best player in a trade. Dame is way more valuable than 2-3 role players even if 1 is a "borderline " all star.

Agreed.  Remember when the Suns traded the Sixers three of their starters for Charles Barkley?

So my takeaway is we cant actually trade a player and take back 8M more than his salary. We can basically only trade a pick for a player.

I guess also, you cant trade a TPE. I thougth that happened when it gets reported that a team receives a trade exception from another team. I guess the proper wording should always be a TPE was created, rather than received. 

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

So my takeaway is we cant actually trade a player and take back 8M more than his salary. We can basically only trade a pick for a player.

I guess also, you cant trade a TPE. I thougth that happened when it gets reported that a team receives a trade exception from another team. I guess the proper wording should always be a TPE was created, rather than received. 

Sounds about right based on everything I’ve read. 

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Sounds about right based on everything I’ve read. 

I assumed the trade exception was something that gets traded away and nothing else could go with it. I guess all it is is our ability to take that much extra salary, but its not something that can go to another team. 

For us, we cant use it to sign a free agent. Cant trade a player's salary with it. And you cant trade it. So that basically leaves trading a pick as our only option to use it. I wonder if it can be used in a sign and trade for a restricted free agent.

There wont be many players in the NBA on an 8M salary that are worth trading a 1st round pick for when it is an asset you can potentially use in a bigger trade. But there are a lot of decent RFAs that would really open up options if you can sign them to an offer sheet for the TPE amount and entice their team to let them go for that pick.

13 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I assumed the trade exception was something that gets traded away and nothing else could go with it. I guess all it is is our ability to take that much extra salary, but its not something that can go to another team. 

For us, we cant use it to sign a free agent. Cant trade a player's salary with it. And you cant trade it. So that basically leaves trading a pick as our only option to use it. I wonder if it can be used in a sign and trade for a restricted free agent.

There wont be many players in the NBA on an 8M salary that are worth trading a 1st round pick for when it is an asset you can potentially use in a bigger trade. But there are a lot of decent RFAs that would really open up options if you can sign them to an offer sheet for the TPE amount and entice their team to let them go for that pick.

Still looking for more things on it. From liberty ballers. They gave an explanation and some options if we used it last year 

Before I list off some potential targets, I think it’s important to detail what exactly a trade exception is for those unfamiliar. A trade exception is created when a team trades a player to another team that is under the cap and doesn’t receive an equal amount of salary back in a deal. In reference to the Horford deal, the Sixers sent out a whopping $27,500,000 to the Thunder in which they only received $19,309,867 back. Simple subtraction shows that they shed $8,190,133 in salary, hence why the Sixers gained the exception amount.

These exceptions allow a NBA team to receive any player within the exception amount without sending any outgoing salary in return. For a realistic example, let’s say the Sixers want to add another shooter to their team. The Sixers could send any expendable contract along with other assets to net someone like Indiana’s Doug McDermott, who is making $7.3 million.

The Sixers could use this exception to land any player making $8.2 million or lower. You can also use this exception on multiple players. They could take on someone making $5 million and still have $3.2 million of their exception to use. These exceptions do expire within a year, however, so the Sixers will have until 12/8/2021 to use this exception before it expires.

https://www.libertyballers.com/2020/12/11/22168236/potential-targets-with-the-sixers-trade-exception-philadelphia-76ers-al-horford-daryl-morey#:~:text=A trade exception is created when a team,Thunder in which they only received %2419%2C309%2C867 back.

18 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Still looking for more things on it. From liberty ballers. They gave an explanation and some options if we used it last year 

Before I list off some potential targets, I think it’s important to detail what exactly a trade exception is for those unfamiliar. A trade exception is created when a team trades a player to another team that is under the cap and doesn’t receive an equal amount of salary back in a deal. In reference to the Horford deal, the Sixers sent out a whopping $27,500,000 to the Thunder in which they only received $19,309,867 back. Simple subtraction shows that they shed $8,190,133 in salary, hence why the Sixers gained the exception amount.

These exceptions allow a NBA team to receive any player within the exception amount without sending any outgoing salary in return. For a realistic example, let’s say the Sixers want to add another shooter to their team. The Sixers could send any expendable contract along with other assets to net someone like Indiana’s Doug McDermott, who is making $7.3 million.

The Sixers could use this exception to land any player making $8.2 million or lower. You can also use this exception on multiple players. They could take on someone making $5 million and still have $3.2 million of their exception to use. These exceptions do expire within a year, however, so the Sixers will have until 12/8/2021 to use this exception before it expires.

https://www.libertyballers.com/2020/12/11/22168236/potential-targets-with-the-sixers-trade-exception-philadelphia-76ers-al-horford-daryl-morey#:~:text=A trade exception is created when a team,Thunder in which they only received %2419%2C309%2C867 back.

That seems to be saying we can trade a player in the deal.  The other site I just posted seems to contradict that. 

39 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

That seems to be saying we can trade a player in the deal.  The other site I just posted seems to contradict that. 

I’ll try to email bodner. He’s usually pretty good at responding and if the question is good enough he’ll talk about it on the podcast. 

15 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Couple things that 2025 pick belongs to OKC unless it finishes top 6. So the value of it being protected top 3 means Portland could only get it if it’s 4-6. You likely are giving up 2027 and having a top 6 protection instead of 2025. 

As for the players, warren is a FA at the end of 2021-22. He’s likely not re-signing in Portland in a rebuild. So they’d have to use him as an expiring contract at the end deadline. Cause at the moment coming off injury the value isn’t as high for warren so they need him to play to get the most on his value at the deadline before he walks in FA. So the appeal of warren isn’t as much as one would believe for Portland 

maxey is tough to give up but if the sixers make a move for a Star I’m betting Darryl morey doesn’t think twice about pulling that trigger. Thybulle you’d like to keep as well  but you aren’t giving up nothing for an all star and morey is in the business of getting a Star here. So he’s likely willing to overpay to get it if that’s the cost.

Even if the sixers don’t trade for lillard or a Star, I’d bet morey trades 28 anyway. Hoffman and bodner and blomain have discussed he’s basically done that in houston a numerous amount of times. So that 28th pick is may not be here anyway. And if you did get a Star/lillard that 2023 first rounder is likely looking at 25-30th. 

In this trade the sixers wind up with lillard and levert for basically Simmons, maxey, thybulle, 13th pick, indys 2023 (likely middle of the road pick), 28th pick, 2023 first and 2025/7 top 6 protected first? 

 

Also, I wouldn't rule out Morey bringing something else back from POR in the Dame deal. Ie. Covington/Simons/or at the very least, Nasir Little. In this example, Covington seemingly would be ideal to replace Thybulle. I think Levert is listed as a forward/3 but he seems more guard-like to me maybe just bc of his ball handling. So I'll take RoCo over Simons, which POR would be smart to accept anyway as Simons is younger and has more upside. 

Dame/LeVert/Curry/RoCo/Tobias/Embiid/Isaiah Joe/Paul Reed/George Hill + fill in the blanks with ring chasers. Ie. maybe Danny Green/Korkmaz comes back now for a minimum deal. Pick up a couple vets at the trade deadline to fill in the blanks. All that matters really is Lillard and Embiid, and Morey knows that and has the chops to fill in the blanks around them. Can't cry about draft picks 4 years down the line and potential upside of some of the kids if you want to really try and win a ring with Embiid and put a bow on this era. Which is what I'm assuming Morey was brought in to do. 

 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

 

Oh boy.  Hopefully he prioritizes winning a championship over less taxes and social life.  Miami would win that battle.

7 minutes ago, Khani1 said:

Oh boy.  Hopefully he prioritizes winning a championship over less taxes and social life.  Miami would win that battle.

Went and looked Miami doesn’t have picks. They can’t trade any firsts from 2021-2023. So earliest is 2024 and beyond. And terms of young players they have herro and precious because Duncan robinson is a FA. They could send expiring contracts if iggy and dragic. Someone brought up the idea they’d deal bam but i think that’s a stretch  

Giannis is everything Simmons isn't 

18 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Giannis is everything Simmons isn't 

Problem with the suns in this series is they didn’t have anyone remotely capable of guarding giannis. Like giannis is gonna get his but it came way too easy cause crowder and bridges are nowhere close to capable enough. 

6 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Problem with the suns in this series is they didn’t have anyone remotely capable of guarding giannis. Like giannis is gonna get his but it came way too easy cause crowder and bridges are nowhere close to capable enough. 

Giannis plays with this confidence no one can really guard him

17 of 20 for the line for Giannis. Superstars come up big, not pass up dunks. 

15 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Giannis plays with this confidence no one can really guard him

17 of 20 for the line for Giannis. Superstars come up big, not pass up dunks. 

Oh i agree.

Just point out the suns biggest deficiency is they don’t have anyone who could remotely make him work for what he got. Bridges doesn’t have the strength and crowder doesn’t have the size. As long as he did what he was supposed too and guys stepped up each game they had a massive advantage with Giannis 

Side point sucks to trade Simmons for defensive purposes cause at least Simmons athleticism, size and speed can make Giannis have to work but since Ben is a ahole that never improves his offensive game it doesn’t matter. 

1 hour ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Giannis is everything Simmons isn't 

I can't stand Simmons, but he would have held him in check.