1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

OC by committee.

This is what I mean when I say Lurie should just make Howie the HC and be done with it

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

I mean....Mahomes is a pass first QB.   Pretty much all QBs are except for Jsckson and Hurts.   Murray was going there, but both he and his team seemed to change that for the good of the team. 

DOnt watch the Ravens much,but I didnt see jackson running alot either

So for me, and I hate to say it,but I think Hurts wants to play hero and run the ball himself and avoid handing it off. It's like he is afraid they will do well and he won't be needed lol

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Yeah,then treated Foles alot better lol.I still don't know why. because of the fan backlash for denegrating your "SB' QB lol

Not looking at the soap opera stuff..  just looking from an athlete's perspective.  Why would a QB want to be with an organization that didn't give their head coach control over the OC and other coaches?   We are fans and we don't like it...this guy was living it every day and effecting his life.  This is my point... big picture here where everyone keeps missing it because " Wentz was upset with a dude that can't throw 52 yards "   the other issues were there long before.  It's set up for failure. Now motivation in organization is to make Hurts look not as bad as he is, so they continue the spin.  Some gullible fans and media bought in on the spin too... still waiting on proof DeSean was in a gang.  Oops that was just Chip😆😆😆😆

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Not looking at the soap opera stuff..  just looking from an athlete's perspective.  Why would a QB want to be with an organization that didn't give their head coach control over the OC and other coaches?   We are fans and we don't like it...this guy was living it every day and effecting his life.  This is my point... big picture here where everyone keeps missing it because " Wentz was upset with a dude that can't throw 52 yards "   the other issues were there long before.  It's set up for failure. Now motivation in organization is to make Hurts look not as bad as he is, so they continue the spin.  Some gullible fans and media bought in on the spin too... still waiting on proof DeSean was in a gang.  Oops that was just Chip😆😆😆😆

DeSean looked good and he's not all the way in yet. Howie covers Howie and Lurie buys his BS

2 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

So for me, and I hate to say it,but I think Hurts wants to play hero and run the ball himself and avoid handing it off. It's like he is afraid they will do well and he won't be needed lol

Nah... just he is a great runner who was used to being able to win as am amateur by running.   Hasn't happened yet in the NFL... I'm not looking to be a trail blazer there.  I don't see it as anything that can either achieve ultimate success and or sustain it. Great for fantasy though.

35 minutes ago, stine said:

  My point was I said to play Minshew in week 17, which was Washington, not Dallas. So he gets two weeks at the end of the year when we probably already know about Hurts and can learn a bit more about Siri and Minshew with this offense...

IDK like Hurts though you'd need to give Minshew more than 2 games,and maybe that is reduced to the week 17 game if Dullaz pulls everyone,so really you aren't gonna get alof of info off the 1 game

2 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

DeSean looked good and he's not all the way in yet. Howie covers Howie and Lurie buys his BS

Or Howie does what Lurie wants?  We don't know for sure

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

IDK like Hurts though you'd need to give Minshew more than 2 games,and maybe that is reduced to the week 17 game if Dullaz pulls everyone,so really you aren't gonna get alof of info off the 1 game

Right...next year he gets the rest of the season once everyone is on board that Hurts isn't the answer. 

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Nah... just he is a great runner who was used to being able to win as am amateur by running.   Hasn't happened yet in the NFL... I'm not looking to be a trail blazer there.  I don't see it as anything that can either achieve ultimate success and or sustain it. Great for fantasy though.

Well the other players are suffering because of this. Few targets for WR's. They are going to get sick of busting every play only to be ignored on the stat sheet and the lack of use of Goedert in the gnats game was STUNNING. Just no excuse for it,unless it's what I surmised that they had 18 guys on defense and the refs just didn't call it

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Or Howie does what Lurie wants?  We don't know for sure

Right...next year he gets the rest of the season once everyone is on board that Hurts isn't the answer. 

Yeah,see I was assuming Hurts wouldn't play and we could see if stache moved this team,but that is moot now that Hurts said he's playing

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Well the other players are suffering because of this. Few targets for WR's. They are going to get sick of busting every play only to be ignored on the stat sheet and the lack of use of Goedert in the gnats game was STUNNING. Just no excuse for it,unless it's what I surmised that they had 18 guys on defense and the refs just didn't call it

Bingo... that is the moment that needs to happen.  Zero doubt, then we move on forever from all this BS.

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Bingo... that is the moment that needs to happen.  Zero doubt, then we move on forever from all this BS.

I'm trying to push that envelope HAHAHAHA

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

I'm talking read option with the QB running as option #2 based on reading the DE at mesh point.    That is happening way more than 21% here and in Baltimore.    Probably the RPO is a different thing?????   Where it's run " pass"  option.    

Read option- RPO the same thing generally…. RPO you have an option to pass but the option to handoff or keep for the QB is still there… which is a huge part of our offense and I’d image the ravens have similar concepts for Lamar. 
 

The QB still reads the mesh point and decides whether to hand off to the RB, run it himself or pass the ball. 

1 hour ago, stine said:

week 17 is Washington. Dallas is week 18

 

My bad extra game and all either way week 17 week before the by week 18 it really no difference… We going to learn that much more on Hurts in those extra 2-3 games then what already know now

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Hurts holding and running it, was causing penalties of linemen downfield because he ran for a second before passing it)    ... that is one element. 

This is an issue with the RPO you can’t opt to keep the ball start running then decides welp that closed let me throw it now. Linemen will be down field….

But essentially the RPO is like a triple option…. Option 1- handoff to RB

Option 2- QB keeps and and runs 

Option 3- QB passes

Reason why most say you want a mobile QB for RPOs because if you have a traditional passer the QB running isn’t a threat. Why everyone want Mariota for Chipper 

56 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I think people are replacing RPO when it should say "PLAY ACTION" which is what I feel KC does. Mahomes seems to be a pass first QB which would fit the RPO phrase,but I think last year he ran alot more  play action so I think KC mixes them up

I don’t I think Mahomes has the option to hand the ball off he just doesn’t run as much. He tends to pass. 

I guess I am just disgusted going from SB champs to the toilet bowl

55 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

I don’t I think Mahomes has the option to hand the ball off he just doesn’t run as much. He tends to pass. 

His running has slowed, so has Jackson. Apparently they have found out getting beat up isn't helping the team much

4 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I guess I am just disgusted going from SB champs to the toilet bowl

His running has slowed, so has Jackson. Apparently they have found out getting beat up isn't helping the team much

IDK, I never saw Mahomes as a runner, more so a guy that could get away from the rush and ran as the last resort.  With a few designed runs.   Again, I'm not against a few plays here and there to keep the D honest or to use some trickery to get a first down.  The reliance on the QB running is just something I don't think will ultimately work, really because it hasn't yet.  I think we see regular season success because teams have 2 days to prepare and then off to the next game, when its playoff time and they will have their season end if they lose, they prepare withj more intensity.   Then you have a QB who is mentally defeated when they have been used to being able to run all season long, and all of a sudden that option isn't there, but in a way that the opponent has completely prepared for all counters.   and I just can't see guys like Jackson and Hurts giving up their running when they do it so well.  The running is what got them this far in life, further than such a small % of people on the planet... why change now?    Weather gets worse, harder to pass, the more they will defend the run, it's harder to have success.   Baltimore has good shot of getting the bye... I can't see them beating top AFC opponents unless its with their defense.  Who knows.  

Hurts has exactly 1100 snaps .... 185 rushing attempts.  16.8% of his snaps... he runs  slightly more than 1 out of every 6 plays.  

Mahomes 3772 snaps ....  209 rushing attempts.    5.5% of his snaps   ... he runs less than 1 out of every 18 plays.   

That's more than 3 times the difference.  

Russell Wilson  ... 9763 snaps   ... 829 rush attempts ...    8.4%   ...  one out of every 11.77 snaps

Josh allen    ... 3465 snaps .... 369 rushes   ...10.6%     ... one out of every 9.4 snaps.  

How about old school ... Fran Tarkenton   no snap count

but in 239 games he had 675 rush attempts ...   6467 passing attempts.      He ran less than 3 times per game.

Steve Young   169 games ... 722 rush attempts...  4.2 rush attempts per game....   4149 pass attempts

Am I missing anyone else that people might think are " running " QBs.    This should show there is a difference with a QB that can run, and a running QB.   

 185 rushes and 499 pass attempts = a running QB.   That is what he is, that is what he is good at.   Some people think you can win like that, so far nobody ever has.   

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, joemas6 said:

I'm sorry.... My terminology is the issue... I get confused with these college terms.      I'm talking read option with the QB running as option #2 based on reading the DE at mesh point.    That is happening way more than 21% here and in Baltimore.    Probably the RPO is a different thing?????   Where it's run " pass"  option.    

That's different in what I'm trying to say or what i'm thinking...  1 out of 5 times placing the ball in the RB's stomach and pulling it back to pass is fine with me.  When the pass is the 2nd option.   QB isn't running 18 times with that.     

I apologize if my lingo is incorrect and for misunderstanding.... the issue to me is the QB running based off of one read.  It's snooze fest to me.

 

One time the QB ran it 18 times. Usually been more like 8 QB runs a game. RPOs are just another play in the playbook. 

5 hours ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

We seem so concerned on Hurts and what he can and can’t do but what if part of the problem is Siri??? 
 If Siri offense is just bad then it will show case even more with Minshew…If we want to truly grade Hurts fairly don’t you want to know of the coach is part of the problem 

It’s a work in progress. Siri’s had some pretty bad games already. Seems like He, Hurts and the receivers need to continue taking things to another level.

5 hours ago, joemas6 said:

BG... "elements" is fine.... when it's your entire offense... it is not NFL.    I personally find it boring.    you want to use it 3 times a game to throw the defense off, then great.  I like route trees and the chess match between the QBs and safeties.   Not, " how does the DE respond to the mesh point" for 50 plays.

Should be doing it all

4 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

We won SB why would they be planning to leave? It wasn't until Howie drafted Hurts that things started downhill and right after we lost Reich

Hurts wasn’t bringing everything down. It was paying big money for old guy FA and guaranteeing Alshon money when he was clearly spent. Malik Jackson and Desean Jackson and such.

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Hurts has exactly 1100 snaps .... 185 rushing attempts.  16.8% of his snaps... he runs  slightly more than 1 out of every 6 plays.  

Mahomes 3772 snaps ....  209 rushing attempts.    5.5% of his snaps   ... he runs less than 1 out of every 18 plays.   

That's more than 3 times the difference.  

Russell Wilson  ... 9763 snaps   ... 829 rush attempts ...    8.4%   ...  one out of every 11.77 snaps

Josh allen    ... 3465 snaps .... 369 rushes   ...10.6%     ... one out of every 9.4 snaps.  

How about old school ... Fran Tarkenton   no snap count

but in 239 games he had 675 rush attempts ...   6467 passing attempts.      He ran less than 3 times per game.

Steve Young   169 games ... 722 rush attempts...  4.2 rush attempts per game....   4149 pass attempts

Am I missing anyone else that people might think are " running " QBs.    This should show there is a difference with a QB that can run, and a running QB.   

 185 rushes and 499 pass attempts = a running QB.   That is what he is, that is what he is good at.   Some people think you can win like that, so far nobody ever has.   

 

 

 

 

RG3 was a runner. Wilson used to take off quite a bit when he was young, that slowed to a crawl too. I think he learned early running QB's don't last long

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Hurts has exactly 1100 snaps .... 185 rushing attempts.  16.8% of his snaps... he runs  slightly more than 1 out of every 6 plays.  

Mahomes 3772 snaps ....  209 rushing attempts.    5.5% of his snaps   ... he runs less than 1 out of every 18 plays.   

That's more than 3 times the difference.  

Russell Wilson  ... 9763 snaps   ... 829 rush attempts ...    8.4%   ...  one out of every 11.77 snaps

Josh allen    ... 3465 snaps .... 369 rushes   ...10.6%     ... one out of every 9.4 snaps.  

How about old school ... Fran Tarkenton   no snap count

but in 239 games he had 675 rush attempts ...   6467 passing attempts.      He ran less than 3 times per game.

Steve Young   169 games ... 722 rush attempts...  4.2 rush attempts per game....   4149 pass attempts

Am I missing anyone else that people might think are " running " QBs.    This should show there is a difference with a QB that can run, and a running QB.   

 185 rushes and 499 pass attempts = a running QB.   That is what he is, that is what he is good at.   Some people think you can win like that, so far nobody ever has.   

 

 

 

 

Nice USEFUL stats here

4 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

SO as you can see,the RPO limits most deeps balls because there simply isn't time,so it's a dunk and dunk offense which defeats the purpose of having speedsters unless you have a QB with cannon arm who can launch 60 yards in 2 seconds with accuracy basically sight unseen. Guys like Arod can do it, Stafford etc. So we have pro style WR's stuck in an RPO offense and its not working

It’s just one play. Like a RB sprint off tackle is just holding back the receivers.