1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I’m not butt hurt about the thought of drafting a QB with draft ammo in 2023. I was just the only guy that already saw our franchise landscape. I already knew Hurts would improve and was a strong leader. I was right

Why does moving from 18 to 16 not equal a third then? What’s the price? Just for that part.

So then if you knew the landscape..then why not see the value in a draft where QBs are going to go early but you don't need one?  Doesn't that man great players drop?

Again... there was no move from 18 to 16.   The move was 19 to 18.    That's why 194 was traded for 237.    Pick 16 was traded for 3 picks.  It doesn't change regardless how many ways you try to spin.

It's not 2022 for 2023.  It's not just for a 2024 2nd.  It's for a lower pick the same draft, plus a 1st in 2023, and 2nd in 2024. Dean can develop and grow with the team... just as much as the guy that runs 4.3.  Plus 2 more ..as of now, premium picks.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I think it’s become very clear I’ve made a valid point with the way you are ditching the question. 
 

 What’s 18 to 16 cost?

Idk I think a late 3rd or early 4th.   But what are you trying to get at.   The Eagles didn't go from 18 to 16.   Neither did the Saints.   19 for 18 wad the swap.   16 was a 3 for one that ended up including Dean and what looks like a top pick next year. Probably an early 2nd rounder in 2024 too. 

The rookie WR and OL didn't make such an easy transition from college to pro....the Saints perhaps made the mistake of thinking they didn't need time to develop as players and chemistry as teammates?

Saints schedule looks pretty tough going forward.  NFC West  and the Eagles.   I also think their division teams are going to finish out stronger than they started.   Miami had a cake schedule at the end last year.   I'd be shocked if the Saints can make it outside of pick 12, but would be nice of Tampa started running away with the division just so mentally it would make the Saints not have anything to play for.   Miami was never out of it last year....lol. 

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Idk I think a late 3rd or early 4th.   But what are you trying to get at.   The Eagles didn't go from 18 to 16.   Neither did the Saints.   19 for 18 wad the swap.   16 was a 3 for one that ended up including Dean and what looks like a top pick next year. Probably an early 2nd rounder in 2024 too. 

The rookie WR and OL didn't make such an easy transition from college to pro....the Saints perhaps made the mistake of thinking they didn't need time to develop as players and chemistry as teammates?

So why am I crazy? You state that maybe a third round pick to move from 18 to 16. There you go. Then you get a first in 2023  and 2nd in 2024 for 19. Why can’t it be easily looked at like that?

No idea why my plan can’t have been the path. You are just stuck on this was the only way. You love  it by spinning it as a first for three picks. Otherwise it doesn’t sound so great. But you admit that them moving from 18 to 16 would require a third. That leaves what for 19?

Seems like you are trying so hard to make the trade look so sexy it couldn’t be refused. I still see my path as the way to go. Where this team is. Siri second year. Get as much as possible in house for him to mold. Get the team growing and developing and bonding. 2024 second rounder is a good pick. But we have a whole new guy in here. We are trying to do something. We could have traded all three first round picks. Trade them to GMs trying to save their butts. Plenty know they getting fired if they don’t produce now. Really can get guys willing to give up tons of draft picks three and four years down the road.

What would a GM on the hot seat give up for 2022  pick 16? 

Only using 2024 and later ammo

3 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So why can’t a guy drafted in 2022 be a young piece going forward? Why is 2023…2024 better?

  All of these Number 1 picks will have to be paid the same year. Better we have one then trade down with the other getting another 1st next year plus an additional 2nd which will cost less come 2nd contract. Plus we still get the same amount of players. Granted, if we trade the Saints pick, the player from round one may not be a stud....

  I would like us to keep the Saints pick and trade back our second #1....

4 hours ago, joemas6 said:

I think the QB part is irrelevant...except for the fact we all know it's why Ham can't seem to understand things.   We have too many old guys, the draft is fir your future...to trust a rookie to make a big difference isn't smart.  They need so many pieces after this year is done, especially DL.  You need draft assets, as much as possible.  That's why it's a no brainer.

No you can't say it's irrelevant unless your team is so bad one year you have a top 3 pick and even in out "tank" year we still were good/bad enough to hit a pick outside that sweet spot,and you'd also know what we gave up for Wentz to move to 2 for him, so for me you keep(if possible) rolling that extra round 1 pick over, because like next year with the assumption we would pick at 31/32 you'd still be able to move up a bit if you had any other round 1 pick. So if we wanted a top QB next draft,it would be easier to work a deal from 4(as an example of what we could face coming up) to say 2 if you had that 31/32 in your pocket. But I'm with you,I don;t believe we are done rebuilding even being a contender this year,we are in ,however, much better shape that last year. No major glaring holes with starters,but BU's are needed and with our draft ammo we can pick and choose which ones,not be choosing because there is a massive hole. But we sure can draft to prevent future ones. ROT(Lane) would be a spot I would hit regardless if he plays next year or not and I would prefer to find s kid that played RT in college rather than retrain a LT which it seems the higher guys are usually listed as(because that is more important than RT to keep your QB upright). So I have been looking more at guys that already are RT and the best one, IMO, won't need a round 1 pick to get. I am more a skill position "scout" so IDK what's entailed with changing a LT to a RT. I suppose it'[s not that hard to do,still if we are going to find lanes replacement it would be easier to get a guy ready to take over without a position change. Most places like kids at 'tackle" which means you have to research which side they played on(some have played both). So maybe you know what it takes to change a guy over. I would be interested to learn if you know. I totally see edge as Howie first pick and we are in excellent position top get him even trading back with a team who wants QB 2 or 3. Stroud,Young and Hooker(my "undraftable QB lol) all fit that bill and the kid from Kentucky I haven't looked at yet, but he could be in that mix also,so very east to get one of the top,maybe THE top,edge guy and getting an extra pick besides that. Davis will be a beast and Pr bowl bound at some point. I think we add a RB fairly high,but Howie will hold off as long as possible there. I know everyone is into the "dink and dunk and drag it out for the W,but really we should have 2-1,000 yard WR's a 1,000 yard RB and a 600 yard TE(which we may have) I know :"stats don't matter" and we've had this takk before,but players want those stats because their contracts depend on output and we don't seem to be getting them that. Great trade with the Saints. Everyone on the planet knows, it except that one guy residing with blinders under his rock

4 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Idk I think a late 3rd or early 4th.   But what are you trying to get at.   The Eagles didn't go from 18 to 16.   Neither did the Saints.   19 for 18 wad the swap.   16 was a 3 for one that ended up including Dean and what looks like a top pick next year. Probably an early 2nd rounder in 2024 too. 

The rookie WR and OL didn't make such an easy transition from college to pro....the Saints perhaps made the mistake of thinking they didn't need time to develop as players and chemistry as teammates?

Olave(my other first pick choice),is fine,very smooth and very accomplished route runner right out of college. But he is in a tough spot,he has inconsistency at QB. Hard for a rook to learn how to catch more than 1 QB's delivery/ball spin/velocity real fast and adjust on a moments notice. On top of that, even his "steady" QB Winston is hot/cold which makes the WR's look inconsistent. Olave doesn't have a Joe Burrow,so I still feel he will produce if you get him a QB and the Saints would love to have that 4 pick in the upcoming draft. Maybe we can rape them again with their own pick HAHAHAHAHA. OH the irony HAHAHAHA 

4 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Idk I think a late 3rd or early 4th.   But what are you trying to get at.   The Eagles didn't go from 18 to 16.   Neither did the Saints.   19 for 18 wad the swap.   16 was a 3 for one that ended up including Dean and what looks like a top pick next year. Probably an early 2nd rounder in 2024 too. 

The rookie WR and OL didn't make such an easy transition from college to pro....the Saints perhaps made the mistake of thinking they didn't need time to develop as players and chemistry as teammates?

19-18 is  18 to 16, it's the new woke, core math. Like 1984 where 2+2=5 because we said so

1 hour ago, stine said:

  All of these Number 1 picks will have to be paid the same year. Better we have one then trade down with the other getting another 1st next year plus an additional 2nd which will cost less come 2nd contract. Plus we still get the same amount of players. Granted, if we trade the Saints pick, the player from round one may not be a stud....

  I would like us to keep the Saints pick and trade back our second #1....

Our 2nd #1 will be around 29,30(or dare I say 32). With teams scrambling for QB's it will be easy for Howie to trade the 4,5(whatever) Saints pick back and still get our guy because QB will be decided for us,so just personally, I would rather keep that late 1 and trade the high one back for more picks and still get the guy we want in the top 10. Or depending how the draft is going we would trade back both. QB run could put a few slated non round 1 guys into round 2. How many teams will(at this point) make a run at a SB and have a top 5-10 pick at the same time in the following draft? I'm guessing not many.Edge, ROT,CB,S would all be high on my list along with a B list RB. But we know Howie is more comfy using FA to find experienced DB's,so that apparently is the formula he likes best. This defense is tearing it up,so get some better BU's there. Epps should stick around,Slay and Bradberry could have a year or 2 left in the tank. Neither seems to be slowing down yet. Dean should be 100% next year and Davis will be a beast. WR room is fine,pick a nice kid with potential to stick on the PS(no biggie). I can also see us taking 2 RB's just to keep the competition fresh. I have zero clue how good/bad Book is, and I believe we give Shew a chance in the open market to start somewhere,or he could also be used as a player/pick trade in round 1 for a team that has a mediocre round 1 pick and can't move up,but still could use a QB. Maybe nothing happens and he comes back as our #2. Sadly Hooker is out of the equation for us (undraftable HAHAHA), so now I need to look for a later value QB snag. Think the Wuss will also be QB hunting,so I hope Howie has alot of screens for his video conference calls on draft day. He will be busy

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2023/consensus-big-board-2023?pos=EDGE Sitting pretty for Murphy and/or Anderson if thats the way we go. According to this consensus there is a drop off from player 4 to 20(the next edge guy) so there are 16 spots for Howie to play with if Anderson/Murphy is the guy we have targeted. Teams scrambling for QB's could certainly push the 4 pick to 5,6 even 7 so if I can get my guy at 6/7 and grab an extra pick,you bet a I do that. Could even use that new pick to move the 30-32 pick up into an earlier round 1 if we wanted to. So as an example I did not get the dang chart out ok????) Instead of 4,32 we could have 7,20 something and get one of the top 2 edge guys(as mentioned) and get another decent round 1 kid

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/dawand-jones-ot-ohio-state-nfl-draft-scouting-report-2023/  RT prospect

3 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/dawand-jones-ot-ohio-state-nfl-draft-scouting-report-2023/  RT prospect

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2023/consensus-big-board-2023?pos=OT  I have him mid 2,so a bit higher than they rate him here,but he is a RIGHT tackle and always has been and I would be fine with selecting him in round 2 as a prospective RT

7 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So why am I crazy? You state that maybe a third round pick to move from 18 to 16. There you go. Then you get a first in 2023  and 2nd in 2024 for 19. Why can’t it be easily looked at like that?

STOP! That was not the trade Ham! We traded away 2 Number 1 picks and rec'd 2 Number 1 picks back plus a 2nd and a 3rd... Read this please and stop saying we traded a 18 for a 16 because that is just not true. Also, note the date.

 

And on this day of April 4, 2022, Howie Roseman strikes with another NFL Draft trade bombshell: The Eagles have added more draft capital for this season and for the future. Philadelphia has agreed to trade the 16th and 19th overall picks, along with a sixth-round pick (No. 194 overall) in the 2022 NFL Draft to New Orleans in exchange for five draft picks. From the Saints, the Eagles will receive:

• The 18th overall pick in the 2022 NFL Draft

• A third-round draft pick from New Orleans, the 101st overall selection in 2022

• A seventh-round pick from the Saints, the 237th overall selection in 2022

• A first-round pick from New Orleans in the 2023 NFL Draft

• A second-round pick from New Orleans in the 2024 NFL Draft

8 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So why am I crazy? You state that maybe a third round pick to move from 18 to 16. There you go. Then you get a first in 2023  and 2nd in 2024 for 19. Why can’t it be easily looked at like that?

???    I don't get whatever you are trying to spin.   It was 5 picks for 3.     The 6th and the 7th late picks were swapped to match the 18 and 19 swaps.   

If you want to spin it any other way, that's fine.   You could also spin... we traded one of the picks for AJ.  The other pick for Dean, 1st and 2nd. 

However you spin it... the trade allowed us to keep the pick used for Dean... in reality the trade for 101 allowed us to keep pick 89 or whatever was used for Dean.

The reality is that most likely the trade will allow us to move one or both picks around next year too.  Imagine we trade back get another 2nd rounder plus... you can add that to the assets we received in exchange for pick 16.

You make these trades to perpetuate your strong position in future drafts.   One rookie player, that would be unknown at the time the trade was made weeks prior to the draft...is not worth all that.   Not for a team needing to replace a lot of old players.

8 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

No idea why my plan can’t have been the path. You are just stuck on this was the only way. You love  it by spinning it as a first for three picks. Otherwise it doesn’t sound so great. But you admit that them moving from 18 to 16 would require a third. That leaves what for 19?

Your plan absolutely " could"  have been path.  It assumes a lot.  And also means in the moment that we would have had to turn down the Saints offer for another " possible " one.  

That offer was a great one and it was there to take.  Yours is hypothetical, yet you arrogantly act like it would have  been a definite.   That's the problem with your mindset.

5 hours ago, stine said:

  All of these Number 1 picks will have to be paid the same year. Better we have one then trade down with the other getting another 1st next year plus an additional 2nd which will cost less come 2nd contract. Plus we still get the same amount of players. Granted, if we trade the Saints pick, the player from round one may not be a stud....

  I would like us to keep the Saints pick and trade back our second #1....

The payment is irrelevant.  It's the sane as if you extend your own guys and go sign an outside free agent.  That BS is just " podcast" guys trying to sound smart.

You showed the picks...that's enough of a steal right there. 

Prisoners of the moment and college football junkies put too much stock in what they think rookies can do in the men's league on Sundays.   Olave might be great one day as an example...not right away to where he can overcome the crap in New Orleans to impact wins and losses to the point it changes the draft pick less in our favor.

Trade was a steal,  everyone knows it, it's looking even better than it did April 4th.

But this 18 to 16 idea..  knowing they wanted to trade for a vet WR. To get that vet presence and proven ability as a true NFL #1, ( not college potential)  knowing that we were going to trade that pick.  Then yeah... if we got 18 and a 3rd for 16...then awesome.  Really 16 or 18 was irrelevant to us knowing it was being shipped to Tenn.   They still would have wanted a extra 3rd if it was 16 or 18.   So the extra 3rd was first part of the steal...the 2nd part being 2 picks for 1 is the other.   

The trade couldn't have been made separately... because the Saints wanted the extra pick...simply swapping 18 to16 wasn't going to get them 2 rookies.  They wanted 2 rookies in 2022...so they overpaid.  

The Dallas trade was for one specific player.. the Eagles wanted Smith more than who was going to fall 2 picks later and they Aldo wanted to prevent the Giants from getting him.

The Saints trade was them wanted 2 rookies and the Eagles preference of a vet WR and trading one of the picks.   Which I strongly believe was part of the reason they made the trade.  They got their big DL and #1 WR, 2 extra picks for future drafts and were able to keep a 3rd round pick.   

Also... the smart bet the rookies would have limited impact on the Saints year 1, was also part of it for the Eagles 

For the media... they need the soap opera stuff...this idea of too many 1st rounders or extra ammo for a QB gets them clicks.  Howie didn't do it for clicks though, simply because it was great business.

Btw...the beauty of having those extra 1sts.... they were able to use their best pick and move up for a specific target.. Davis.  Last year without that, they had to use pick 12 and a 3rd to move up.  

Once you get your target.. of course you look to maximize the other assets.

The issue some have, was a safety had to be drafted this year.  Without that, they weren't happy.  Fans get stuck on that every year.

It has been apparent that we do not draft safeties in the first round so the point is moot.....

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

But this 18 to 16 idea..  knowing they wanted to trade for a vet WR. To get that vet presence and proven ability as a true NFL #1, ( not college potential)  knowing that we were going to trade that pick.  Then yeah... if we got 18 and a 3rd for 16...then awesome.  Really 16 or 18 was irrelevant to us knowing it was being shipped to Tenn.   They still would have wanted a extra 3rd if it was 16 or 18.   So the extra 3rd was first part of the steal...the 2nd part being 2 picks for 1 is the other.   

The trade couldn't have been made separately... because the Saints wanted the extra pick...simply swapping 18 to16 wasn't going to get them 2 rookies.  They wanted 2 rookies in 2022...so they overpaid.  

The Dallas trade was for one specific player.. the Eagles wanted Smith more than who was going to fall 2 picks later and they Aldo wanted to prevent the Giants from getting him.

The Saints trade was them wanted 2 rookies and the Eagles preference of a vet WR and trading one of the picks.   Which I strongly believe was part of the reason they made the trade.  They got their big DL and #1 WR, 2 extra picks for future drafts and were able to keep a 3rd round pick.   

Also... the smart bet the rookies would have limited impact on the Saints year 1, was also part of it for the Eagles 

For the media... they need the soap opera stuff...this idea of too many 1st rounders or extra ammo for a QB gets them clicks.  Howie didn't do it for clicks though, simply because it was great business.

BTW AJ was our 3rd choice,so Howie was busy looking for a FA WR's long before this trade even went down. I assume at that point the decision was made that DAVIS was our guy and that OLAVE would have to be bypassed as our first pick.(both were my round 1 choices for us),so it's not too hard to see we were all in on Davis and that we would need to seek a bookend with Smith. I guess 3rd choice are not the right words,but let's just say there were other FA WR's being considered. When someone said "Hurts brought AJ here",that is also fallacy as Howie was looking at all possibilities and in fact HOWIE brought AJ here. It was "nice" Hurts had worked out with him and probably helped the situation, but I know we were looking at others. This is a business not who Hurts' buddies are

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Btw...the beauty of having those extra 1sts.... they were able to use their best pick and move up for a specific target.. Davis.  Last year without that, they had to use pick 12 and a 3rd to move up.  

Once you get your target.. of course you look to maximize the other assets.

The issue some have, was a safety had to be drafted this year.  Without that, they weren't happy.  Fans get stuck on that every year.

I don't get stuck. It's fun when the team picks the guys you had mocked. I was fine with either Davis or Olave,those were my 2. I also had Smith for us last time. Not getting into the "I called it" BS, suffice to say I don't think my mocks are all that useless(I will wait however until the end to post what I believe is the best one or 2 and not post 500). IF we stay at 4,my thoughts are Murphy(edge) but I believe we can move back and still get him when other teams are scrambling for a QB. We are in the drivers seat with pick 4,5 ,6 or 7. Murphy should be there then

1 hour ago, stine said:

It has been apparent that we do not draft safeties in the first round so the point is moot.....

yeah I said that too. it seems Howie is not comfortable drafting those or CB's or LB's. Still need some younger linemen,but I think Howie needs to back fill at those 3 spots(or re-sign guys we have) because it seems we are going to start paying Hurts,so we need to get as many young players and draft picks as possible to avoid paying them also. IDK which young CB's or S' will be FA's next year.but thats where I would go if I was Howie. WR is locked in for 3 more years after this. We paid AJ and Smith is still on his rook. IDK if we pay Quez or replace him. Sanders could be expendable also. We should be fine if we can clear off some dead money