20 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Ok....you are a GM...you have a draft coming up tomorrow.   A 1st and a 3rd are right there being offered for all these players you have been researching.    

Or... you wait a year and what?  Unknown.  If you tag AJ, how does that go?  How does this offseason go?  Do you get similar value?  What draft would it be, 2023 or 2024.   

If you tag AJ, that's 20 -25 mil cap space you lose until he gets moved...that's right at start of league year when you want cap space for free agency. 

I think you can see this idea you have of using the tag compared to the known immediate picks is risky. 

Plus you keep saying how 2022 draft picks are worth more than future years.

But we wouldn’t trade without a contract, right? You aren’t getting top compensation on a one year rental. Titans GM really stuck in that situation. A team with a WR need, had draft picks to trade and could work out a new massive contract with AJ. Not exactly 31 choices.

If we wanted Olave AND Davis we would have had to spend that 3rd round 1 pick right? Plus probably give up other assets There would be no other way to get both

24 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Baloney. After he walked away he agreed "in principle"(sorry I misspelled this before) to what Howie was offering. There could have been NO offer unless the Titans also agreed he was DONE in Tennessee or that would be tampering I believe. When he demanded a trade,Tenn would have agreed to let him seek new employment. Of course they could have refused him and let him hit FA and gotten nothing

He walked away taking a chance a team that needed a WR, had the draft picks and would pay him at that late date. Bold move unless….

36 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Right, the cleats don't hit the turf for 16 million which was the Titans offer. What was the cost of the tag if they wouldn't even go past 16 million?

Article said 80 mil guaranteed…but whatever

15 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Howie et al were unhappy with reagors performance and he knew we needed a WR to replace him. So you can look for a trade optiion(which we did) or you can go through the draft. Howie killed 2 birds with 1 stone by making the AJ deal because he got his Reagor replacement and got additional assets besides that. The other option would be to take Olave and give up Davis. Instead he got AJ,Davis and addition draft picks. Do you understand this?

Imagine if Howie successfully traded for Ridley...  🤮

This is why I laugh at the idea of lack of cap or resources...  we've seen so many just bad player decisions over the years.

Think about it...if Seamulo and Barnett walk ...that's zero players drafted between Lane and Goedert still on the roster.

If Sanders and Dillard walk... that's  nobody between Mailata and Hurts.   

So many bad player decisions... just bad talent evaluation... why do we need to think anything else is an issue?

I mean...you go from first pick of 2013 to 2nd pick of 2020...with just 4 guys drafted from 2018 on the roster?

Yet " cap space hampered us" ?

Yeah...not having unlimited cap space to allow us to make up for being completely brutal in years of drafts..I agree with that.   But show me the team that drafted so poorly but made up for it by buying every free agent?  

Even the Rams drafted Kupp and Donald! 

20 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Ham, does our new safety from the Saints know we are going to pay him?  

Does he have to know?   Just like AJ he isn't going to sign a below market value deal.   You keep talking about it going up to $20 mil now for  him. 

It's the same thing... AJ not going to sign a below market deal with Tenn... Gardner not going to sign a below market deal with either Saints or Eagles.   That's not Hurts influenced.

AJ knew someone was going to pay..because the market is going up.  Not because of Hurts.

Big difference is trade compensation. The fact we weren’t signing him to an extension makes his value much less, right? Clearly a big factor. One year rental trade price versus longer term main block. So at that time who was going to pay AJ? A team looking for a WR that had draft picks to trade…willing to pay up his demands? How much smaller a market can you create? No agent would advise that situation unless he knew likely options. What was his knowledge of the options? As risky a move as it gets just hoping and praying from and agent and player. Lowest amount of available money league wide. Teams already threw their cash at best options making those decisions. Few teams that did have money and picks already stacked at WR. Ideal would be beginning of FA. 31 other teams. All most possible cash to sign huge contract. That late throwing yourself out there you went from 31 options to…? One…maybe somebody else. Arguably the worst market options possible. Couldn’t be farther from ideal. Bold move to assume that one team would actually be a great option unless….

26 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Howie et al were unhappy with reagors performance and he knew we needed a WR to replace him. So you can look for a trade optiion(which we did) or you can go through the draft. Howie killed 2 birds with 1 stone by making the AJ deal because he got his Reagor replacement and got additional assets besides that. The other option would be to take Olave and give up Davis. Instead he got AJ,Davis and addition draft picks. Do you understand this?

I completely understand the situation. We struck out with trades and FA for a WR. We just differ on how Rosie knew how to pull all this off and how it all happened. Nobody knows the truth for sure. I can’t say I have some insider info I’m working with. Im just making educated assumptions connecting very obvious dots relating the events and situations. You don’t really know either(at least I admit that part). But your basing your opinion on one of the various versions of AJ story and that all rules were followed. I just find your version hard to believe. You believe AJ, agent whatever, rolled the dice on the smallest possible market for his services to blindly pay off. You just think all the other events are purely coincidence and not related to the specifics of how things played out. It’s possible ….I guess.

21 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Article said 80 mil guaranteed…but whatever

Thats what he "demanded" but whatever

17 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Imagine if Howie successfully traded for Ridley...  🤮

This is why I laugh at the idea of lack of cap or resources...  we've seen so many just bad player decisions over the years.

Think about it...if Seamulo and Barnett walk ...that's zero players drafted between Lane and Goedert still on the roster.

If Sanders and Dillard walk... that's  nobody between Mailata and Hurts.   

So many bad player decisions... just bad talent evaluation... why do we need to think anything else is an issue?

IDK we also have a "development" problem. We can do RB's,WR's,TE's but we are BRUTAL on developing defensive sill position players,just AWFUL. And why we have to constantly get them in FA

7 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I completely understand the situation. We struck out with trades and FA for a WR. We just differ on how Rosie knew how to pull all this off and how it all happened. Nobody knows the truth for sure. I can’t say I have some insider info I’m working with. Im just making educated assumptions connecting very obvious dots relating the events and situations. You don’t really know either(at least I admit that part). But your basing your opinion on one of the various versions of AJ story and that all rules were followed. I just find your version hard to believe. You believe AJ, agent whatever, rolled the dice on the smallest possible market for his services to blindly pay off. You just think all the other events are purely coincidence and not related to the specifics of how things played out. It’s possible ….I guess.

No I have laid it all out over many pages. I can't make you understand it. Rosie is always looking for opportunities,it's his job,so when talks broke down in Tennessee why wouldn't he inject himself into the conversation? That's his JOB and what Lurie pays him for. I don't care what "version" you choose,the only version that matters is when he and Tenn agreed he should be traded. What difference does the version make unless you are a TZM reporter?

Just letting you guys actually read all these factors put together of coincidence, luck and happenstance. I came to my own conclusion based on I can’t reason the way things happened really otherwise. But it is possible:1) we just lucked out that our QB1 was building chemistry with his new number one target before he was a member of our team. 2) we struck out on every other option and needed a WR 3) we had the draft picks to trade for one 4) we had the money to pay a huge contract 5) AJ blew up and walked away from negotiations 6) he demanded a trade 7)AJ gambled that in the worst possible market for his services he would get paid 9)we could work out a mega contract in record time to make it happen 10)no other team offered Titans more ….I’m sure I’m forgetting a few other details. What else? It was a blood moon during an eclipse on leap day during the hottest day of the year…oh and Vegas had just that prop bet we wagered on.

All worked out for us any way you look at it. Undefeated! Thank you QB1!

19 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Big difference is trade compensation. The fact we weren’t signing him to an extension makes his value much less, right? Clearly a big factor. One year rental trade price versus longer term main block. So at that time who was going to pay AJ? A team looking for a WR that had draft picks to trade…willing to pay up his demands? How much smaller a market can you create? No agent would advise that situation unless he knew likely options. What was his knowledge of the options? As risky a move as it gets just hoping and praying from and agent and player. Lowest amount of available money league wide. Teams already threw their cash at best options making those decisions. Few teams that did have money and picks already stacked at WR. Ideal would be beginning of FA. 31 other teams. All most possible cash to sign huge contract. That late throwing yourself out there you went from 31 options to…? One…maybe somebody else. Arguably the worst market options possible. Couldn’t be farther from ideal. Bold move to assume that one team would actually be a great option unless….

???  Trade compensation has nothing to do with the player taking below market value for himself. 

Nobody is talking about trade compensation.   But yeah, no shot we give up that compensation to Tennessee until the long term extension was done.  I don't think anyone argues that!  

If no contract...then no trade.  At least not with 2022 picks.    Or at least not the 2022 1st rounder. 

Gardner no long term deal...obviously less compensation to Saints... but in both cases neither player is signing next contract for way below market value.

11 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Nobody knows the truth for sure.

Truth-AJ asked to be traded because the money wasn't there. Truth- Howie needed a WR to replace the Reagor disaster Truth-Eagles offer was the best he could get no matter WHAT his "demands" were. Truth-AJ agreed in principle to the contract Howie was offering him AFTER HE WALKED away. Truth-This allowed Howie to bypass the possible draft pick of Olave and concentrate on getting Davis. WTH don't you get??? These are all factual truths, as stated by the player himself.There are no "rumors,theories or negotiations" by Hurts. Pretty straightforward? You just read BS in that isn't there and dream of being correct

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

???  Trade compensation has nothing to do with the player taking below market value for himself. 

Nobody is talking about trade compensation.   But yeah, no shot we give up that compensation to Tennessee until the long term extension was done.  I don't think anyone argues that!  

If no contract...then no trade.  At least not with 2022 picks.    Or at least not the 2022 1st rounder. 

Gardner no long term deal...obviously less compensation to Saints... but in both cases neither player is signing next contract for way below market value.

That’s exactly what I said. Less compensation for player you aren’t signing.

 Gardner-Johnson case…oh lord hope I don’t start anything controversial here by pointing at the known details. He didn’t want market value for a slot corner. He demanded to be seen as a S. Makes sense. S worth twice as much. So I assume our agreement with him(not Saints) was he’d play S.

10 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Just letting you guys actually read all these factors put together of coincidence, luck and happenstance. I came to my own conclusion based on I can’t reason the way things happened really otherwise. But it is possible:1) we just lucked out that our QB1 was building chemistry with his new number one target before he was a member of our team. 2) we struck out on every other option and needed a WR 3) we had the draft picks to trade for one 4) we had the money to pay a huge contract 5) AJ blew up and walked away from negotiations 6) he demanded a trade 7)AJ gambled that in the worst possible market for his services he would get paid 9)we could work out a mega contract in record time to make it happen 10)no other team offered Titans more ….I’m sure I’m forgetting a few other details. What else? It was a blood moon during an eclipse on leap day during the hottest day of the year…oh and Vegas had just that prop bet we wagered on.

1) They were friends FIVE YEARS PREVIOUSLY. FRIENDS!!!! 2) yeah Howie had a limit of what he would pay,2 others said "no" 3) yes 4) yes 5)yes 6) yes 7) Previous trades raised what following WR's would get(also called setting the market) and Tenn refused to pay it (you left out number 8 LMAO) 9) Agreed in principle to the trade,you can do that in 30 minutes by phone with his agent? 10) No clue and it doesn't matter?

4 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Truth-AJ asked to be traded because the money wasn't there. Truth- Howie needed a WR to replace the Reagor disaster Truth-Eagles offer was the best he could get no matter WHAT his "demands" were. Truth-AJ agreed in principle to the contract Howie was offering him AFTER HE WALKED away. Truth-This allowed Howie to bypass the possible draft pick of Olave and concentrate on getting Davis. WTH don't you get??? These are all factual truths, as stated by the player himself.There are no "rumors,theories or negotiations" by Hurts. Pretty straightforward? You just read BS in that isn't there and dream of being correct

Plenty i could break down in this. But you honestly are certain AJ walked away from negotiations demanding a trade in the worst possible market for his services to get paid by a team that had the draft picks they would spend to do it. He gambled it would all work out on a market of how many options? One…maybe somebody else possible. Big balls on that guy if that’s the case. Blindly finding 100 mil.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Plenty i could break down in this. But you honestly are certain AJ walked away from negotiations demanding a trade in the worst possible market for his services to get paid by a team that had the draft picks they would spend to do it. He gambled it would all work out on a market of how many options? One…maybe somebody else possible. Big balls on that guy if that’s the case. Blindly finding 100 mil.

Who said it was the worst possible market besides you???? I know- NOBODY. market was set higher than Tenn was willing to pay? other WR's got money? that is the worst possible scenario? I would think it a great time to look for a team that would pay more?

17 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

 You believe AJ, agent whatever, rolled the dice on the smallest possible market for his services to blindly pay off. 

Ham... what do you mean with this statement?  What was " rolling the dice " 

Deebo, AJ, McLaurin... none of then were signed at the time.  All 3 behaved in similar fashion.  Deebo publicly asked for a trade...you even said it yourself.

The difference in behavior... Tennessee decided to make a trade for immediate assets.  

This is where you and I disagree.   

I say it was public knowledge ALL 3 were not happy.  All 3 were not negotiating at the time. Deebo requested a trade. 

Where we differ seems that you only think AJ's camp was rolling any dice? Or only AJ should have taken less money. Or only AJ's situation was looked into by the Eagles. 

Or the only reason Howie looked into the situation was due to Hurts.  

I would easily assume collusion all the time...assume Howie made offers to SF and Washington too....preliminary offers or discussions whatever you want to call them.  

I assume none of the WRs were going to take less than market value.  I assume Tennessee preferred the trade over ...1. Paying market price.  2. Drama.  3 losing AJ for nothing

All your stuff is great...don't even care to dispute... I'm just saying there is no way you can get me to believe Howie wasn't going to offer a trade...without Hurts.. or AJ would have taken less money if the Eagles weren't going to trade for him.   No shot at either.  

Market value amongst 32 teams. Not exactly the same as price paid by the only option…or 2 or 3 options. AJ and his agent have biggest balls around….according to your version. Man he got lucky.

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Plenty i could break down in this. But you honestly are certain AJ walked away from negotiations demanding a trade in the worst possible market for his services to get paid by a team that had the draft picks they would spend to do it. He gambled it would all work out on a market of how many options? One…maybe somebody else possible. Big balls on that guy if that’s the case. Blindly finding 100 mil.

AJ couldnt care LESS about what picks Howie gave up or didn't give up. PLEASE,he was looking out for his own interests,stop this BS

8 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

That’s exactly what I said. Less compensation for player you aren’t signing.

 Gardner-Johnson case…oh lord hope I don’t start anything controversial here by pointing at the known details. He didn’t want market value for a slot corner. He demanded to be seen as a S. Makes sense. S worth twice as much. So I assume our agreement with him(not Saints) was he’d play S.

Right... No player is going to take less money than they are worth.    

So AJ was not going to sign a deal with Tennessee prior to the draft.   

Tennessee preferred to trade him rather than pay.   Very simple 

5 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Market value amongst 32 teams. Not exactly the same as price paid by the only option…or 2 or 3 options. AJ and his agent have biggest balls around….according to your version. Man he got lucky.

Yes prices for players go down every year(lmao) Cap never goes up every year either(allowing teams to pay more per player?????) Nah thats all fallacy.SHow me a player that sets the market by demanding less than before

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Right... No player is going to take less money than they are worth.    

So AJ was not going to sign a deal with Tennessee prior to the draft.   

Tennessee preferred to trade him rather than pay.   Very simple 

BUT BUT there's no TMZ story there!!! Gotta have drama, conjecture and "dreams" it simply has to be more complicated

Which btw.. neither Deebo or McClaurin signed a deal prior to the draft either.  If you recall... people were waiting for something to happen with Deebo. 

SF obviously didn't get an offer they liked.. my guess is if he didn't sign prior to the season...he probably would have been traded this week...same with McClaurin.   

Tennessee chose to get immediate assets while there was still leverage.