5 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Under Schwartz we have brought in McLeod, Jenkins, Jackson, Bradham, Darby, Slay and Hargrave, some of whom had a direct connection to him. In the last four drafts we have picked eight defensive players in the first four rounds.

We have consistently gotten production from picks on offense - Wentz, Seumalo, Goedert, Pryor, Mailata, Sanders, Vaitai - while not getting much of anything from those on defense. We have seen UDFAs or castoffs from other teams do well on offense - Ward, Scott, Fulgham, Foles - while having very few guys improve on defense after they get here.

It's not a "we don't give Schwartz enough talent" problem, it's a "Schwartz wrecks everything he touches" problem, as evidenced by the fact that players get better once they leave here.

Slay is ok, Bradham is ok,the others seem "average" Jones worked out? So some hate Schwartz,others like him.IDK,but we always are lacking deep coverage players.most teams will beat us on long balls and I have no clue who has the final say on who Schwartz gets.And our LB's are sub standard

14 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Slay is ok, Bradham is ok,the others seem "average" Jones worked out? So some hate Schwartz,others like him.IDK,but we always are lacking deep coverage players.most teams will beat us on long balls and I have no clue who has the final say on who Schwartz gets.And our LB's are sub standard

Jenkins and McLeod were both pretty big free agent signings. Darby was on a rookie deal and we traded our top receiver and a third round pick for him. Jackson got $10 million a year from us. Hargrave got a lot of money from us. I am fine with saying guys like Vinny Curry, Tim Jernigan, Genard Avery and Will Parks aren't big signings, but it is just ridiculous to downplay signings like Jackson, Hargrave, Slay, Jenkins. McLeod and Darby, since they cost the team substantial resources.

Also, we made a decision to have bad linebackers. No one put a gun to our head and made us play Gerry and cut Fort. I am sure that the team's draft strategy at the position would have been far different if anyone knew how bad Riley was going to be. It was Schwartz who would have been providing the information. Drafting a project in the third round makes sense if you have two competent starters. But it makes no sense if you don't.

The common denominator to our defensive problems is Schwartz. And I don't see how we can even consider that a debatable point at this juncture. 

1 hour ago, jsb235 said:

Jenkins and McLeod were both pretty big free agent signings. Darby was on a rookie deal and we traded our top receiver and a third round pick for him. Jackson got $10 million a year from us. Hargrave got a lot of money from us. I am fine with saying guys like Vinny Curry, Tim Jernigan, Genard Avery and Will Parks aren't big signings, but it is just ridiculous to downplay signings like Jackson, Hargrave, Slay, Jenkins. McLeod and Darby, since they cost the team substantial resources.

Also, we made a decision to have bad linebackers. No one put a gun to our head and made us play Gerry and cut Fort. I am sure that the team's draft strategy at the position would have been far different if anyone knew how bad Riley was going to be. It was Schwartz who would have been providing the information. Drafting a project in the third round makes sense if you have two competent starters. But it makes no sense if you don't.

The common denominator to our defensive problems is Schwartz. And I don't see how we can even consider that a debatable point at this juncture. 

IDK who was the DC in 2017?

11 hours ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

OL very well could be Mailata/Herbig/Kelce/ Pryor/ Driscoll vs the Ravens 

I say get the old guys out of here Johnson, Brooks, JP, Cox ,Graham, Vinney, DJax , ErtzAlson got to go trade them for picks

11 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Take Kelce out of the equation and our average age is just over 23.

Kelce needs to be traded for Draft picks, time for a New Generation of OLinemen.

10 hours ago, stine said:

  Should have traded him like I wanted before the draft.... Now he has no value and I doubt we even get a third round compensation for him.... What a waste.

I am really disappointed in Ertz and his poor efforts this season, 

8 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Wentz struggles more than at times though. Yesterday was at times but there's been so so many at times this year so far. 

I blame Wentz struggles on the coaches, weather it is Schwartz and Peedys inconsistencies with their play calling  or their lack of situational football dynamics. We acted like we didn't think we could beat those steelers. Third down and 8 our DB are playing 12 yds off the ball , It has got to stop these idiotic playcalls. Schwartz and Peedy might need to be replaced with Howie.There is a reason our team is always hurt .and we continue to give away our talent to other teams. Coaches and Howie, need some fresh blood.

9 hours ago, joemas6 said:

But in no way is he " regressing"  from the start of the year.

Who said regressing from the start of the year? He's been regressing the last 2 years. 

9 hours ago, joemas6 said:

So my question.   As Wentz plays Sunday vs Baltimore..... are we still worried about his play vs the Rams... ir are we going to judge it by just his play vs Baltimore?   Because ... he can play perfect for 8 games in a row... and you can still bring up the Rams game and say " it's more than "at times"   

Both his elite 2017 season, and all his past bad games... should go in the toilet when looking to judge him going forward.   I want to see him play with these young guys, when we know that he has to play with these young guys, and he practices with them.  No more musical chairs or a roster, and then we can better judge.  

Why should his bad games go in the toilet when looking to judge him going forwards? The past informs opinions for the future. For the last 2 years he's been more average than anything else. He's had more bad games than good games. So why should we just ignore that?

1 hour ago, Trini said:

I blame Wentz struggles on the coaches, weather it is Schwartz and Peedys inconsistencies with their play calling  or their lack of situational football dynamics. We acted like we didn't think we could beat those steelers. Third down and 8 our DB are playing 12 yds off the ball , It has got to stop these idiotic playcalls. Schwartz and Peedy might need to be replaced with Howie.There is a reason our team is always hurt .and we continue to give away our talent to other teams. Coaches and Howie, need some fresh blood.

I don't think all of Wentz issues are his fault so I will agree with you there. But I do think the time has come for us as fans to stop absolving him of blame. He's got to be better out there. He's got to be more accurate and he's got to be more composed. 

8 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

2 picks,2 picks,2 picks,1 pick. Thats regression in my book. Thats what rookie 3rd stringers do

29 points vs the best defense we faced so far.   45 points in the last 6 quarters as compared to 17 points in the 6 quarters between Wash and the Rams.    Lets be honest... you can chalk up miscommunication or Ertz getting bumped as one INT... the other one was a 4th down toss way down field... bogus stat.  If your eyes are telling you that he is regressing (from game to game... not from anything prior to this year)   then I just disagree. I think he's much better lately than when his teammates were getting injured around him.  A stable roster is going to help.  

Just now, joemas6 said:

29 points vs the best defense we faced so far.   45 points in the last 6 quarters as compared to 17 points in the 6 quarters between Wash and the Rams.    Lets be honest... you can chalk up miscommunication or Ertz getting bumped as one INT... the other one was a 4th down toss way down field... bogus stat.  If your eyes are telling you that he is regressing (from game to game... not from anything prior to this year)   then I just disagree. I think he's much better lately than when his teammates were getting injured around him.  A stable roster is going to help.  

But you talk about game to game... What about from 2017 to now? There's very clear regression. A lot of people have noted the regression so it isn't just fans. 

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Who said regressing from the start of the year? He's been regressing the last 2 years. 

Definition of regressing is getting worse..... going backwards.  Is Wentz going backwards from his last game?   It's all that matters.    Is it coincidence that each year so far he plays his best toward the end of the year... as the roster gets stable?   IDK, I guess I don't expect much from my QB as the players around him get worse or get hurt and keep changing.  I think Josh Allen is a great example of how a QB can look completely different as he plays with better players.  It's not really rocket science.  Both the OL and the WRs have both gone through injuries and struggles the last few years... on top of that we don't run the ball anymore like we did in 2017.  We seem way more predictable.     It's why I want to just keep playing the young guys now... if we lack talent and won't run the ball ... at least give the QB the same players at this point.  

 

Just now, joemas6 said:

Definition of regressing is getting worse..... going backwards.  Is Wentz going backwards from his last game?   It's all that matters.    Is it coincidence that each year so far he plays his best toward the end of the year... as the roster gets stable?   IDK, I guess I don't expect much from my QB as the players around him get worse or get hurt and keep changing.  I think Josh Allen is a great example of how a QB can look completely different as he plays with better players.  It's not really rocket science.  Both the OL and the WRs have both gone through injuries and struggles the last few years... on top of that we don't run the ball anymore like we did in 2017.  We seem way more predictable.     It's why I want to just keep playing the young guys now... if we lack talent and won't run the ball ... at least give the QB the same players at this point.  

 

You don't take it on a game by game basis what does that achieve? Oh so one week he can be terrible, the next he can be good and that's all fine is it? So we can have a QB who sometimes looks good but other times looks terrible and that's no problem. 

11 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But you talk about game to game... What about from 2017 to now? There's very clear regression. A lot of people have noted the regression so it isn't just fans. 

LOL... If he throws 7 TDS vs Baltimore.... still won't be enough to 2017 level... so do we still call it regression if he comes off the field after a great game?  Is it a shocker that he isn;t as good .

1. Prior to knee injury
2.  When we actually ran the ball
3.  When he had a stable core of WRs that were healthy.... Alshon, Smith, Agholor, Ertz, ...plus some blocking TEs and a RB committee where a few actually could pass block
4.  A stable OL all season
VS
Multiple injuries    .... coach doesn't want to run the ball ..... WRs keep getting injured ..... OL keeps getting injured           

IDK... but he regressed... ya think?    Yet where was our thinking at the end of last year?     Again, he won;t be 2017 level or near until he gets all that adequate level stuff around him and some stability, it's just the reality, it's a team sport, the better your team is the better you are going to play.  Especially at QB.   It's not like goalie or pitcher, the QB spot depends on a lot of other people.    My concern is going forward, is there improvement with his play and the play of the offense as a whole.  

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

LOL... If he throws 7 TDS vs Baltimore.... still won't be enough to 2017 level... so do we still call it regression if he comes off the field after a great game?  Is it a shocker that he isn;t as good .

If he throws 7 TD passes then he's had a really great game. It's 1 game. What I'm saying is look at his overall body of work throughout his career. It is very up and down. 

8 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

You don't take it on a game by game basis what does that achieve? Oh so one week he can be terrible, the next he can be good and that's all fine is it? So we can have a QB who sometimes looks good but other times looks terrible and that's no problem. 

Have you ever played football?  Have you ever watched other QBs... who have bad games ... IDK Tom Brady, Drew Brees to name a few that have struggled.... Nick Foles was brutal 2 weeks ago.  Wilson was awful the first half last night.   Again though... to expect Wentz to be at 2017 level is just not going to happen.  He doesn't have the team around him.  We need to compare his games this year... going forward we need improvement.  And we need to see signs that some of these young players are keepers.  The more of them on offense we can keep the better, because our defense needs a lot of changes. 

2 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

If he throws 7 TD passes then he's had a really great game. It's 1 game. What I'm saying is look at his overall body of work throughout his career. It is very up and down. 

Right and as I said, its not going to change is it?    Regardless of what he does, it won;t be good enough for you.  You will keep harping on the prior bad stuff?  I don't know if you are familiar with Archie Manning as a player.  But if not, google him and his situation down in New Orleans.  It's the point I'm trying to make about QB play. 

6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Have you ever played football?  Have you ever watched other QBs... who have bad games ... IDK Tom Brady, Drew Brees to name a few that have struggled.... Nick Foles was brutal 2 weeks ago.  Wilson was awful the first half last night.   Again though... to expect Wentz to be at 2017 level is just not going to happen.  He doesn't have the team around him.  We need to compare his games this year... going forward we need improvement.  And we need to see signs that some of these young players are keepers.  The more of them on offense we can keep the better, because our defense needs a lot of changes. 

But it isn't 1 game. There's a trend. There are issues that we continue to see time and time again. You're obviously a blind Wentz supporter who sees nothing but excuses for Wentz and won't have a bad word said about him. I just think there's a need for some balance. 

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Right and as I said, its not going to change is it?    Regardless of what he does, it won;t be good enough for you.  You will keep harping on the prior bad stuff?  I don't know if you are familiar with Archie Manning as a player.  But if not, google him and his situation down in New Orleans.  It's the point I'm trying to make about QB play. 

But 1 game isn't enough and shouldn't be enough to completely turn things around. That's like declaring a rookie a bust because of a couple of bad games. Or declaring Fulgham a great WR after 2 promising games. 

11 hours ago, jsb235 said:

I think we have some guys on our staff who could step into the role. Our DB coach in particular, Marquand Manuel, is a guy I would consider

It's not hard to see how this defense could have been really good. Jones or Douglas at CB2 instead of Mills. LJ Fort and Singleton/Edwards at LB instead of Gerry and Riley. Jenkins instead of Epps at SS. But it was clearly Schwartz who wanted those guys gone.

So in this case it's pretty clear who the problem is.

What is sad is that every CB we cut last year - Jones, Douglas and Darby - has a higher rating from PFF than the guys we kept - Mills, Maddox and James, and all of them are higher or about the same as Slay, who is getting paid more than all of them combined. Now, PFF isn't a perfect way to measure performance, but it does indicate that we have a coaching problem and not a talent problem.

It also is a positive sign that Manuel is coaching his players well, since they obviously have a good skill set when they leave here.  

Agreed. take a shot on some new blood.

4 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But it isn't 1 game. There's a trend. There are issues that we continue to see time and time again. You're obviously a blind Wentz supporter who sees nothing but excuses for Wentz and won't have a bad word said about him. I just think there's a need for some balance. 

what is the trend?

Schwartz strengths and weakness seem pretty clear good generally RZ DC he usually fields a strong DL(has to since he only likes to rush 4) he tends to max the DT position.

CBs seem to get exposed in his scheme and he has had talented players hence why we are seeing guys leave and have success elsewhere.

LB Schwartz made his bed with that spot whether it was not addressing the spot going with Gerry, Picking Brown last off-season over Jamie Collins, Cutting Fort though I don’t see him being successful here he isn’t even a full time guy for the Ravens.

S he had one of the better pairing for awhile In McLeod and Jenkins.... This year McLeod has been light out especially last two games played excellent ball 

4 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

What I'm saying is look at his overall body of work throughout his career. It is very up and down. 

Not really I disagree Wentz is pretty consistent if we are looking at his complete body those stats might not be what you want but doesn’t vary often 

But looking more at Wentz vs Steelers his 1st int seemed to have been on a timing route Ertz got bumped off of an apparently was questionably PI.

2nd int game was over anyway 4th and 20 just chucked it in hopes of a play.

also apparently had a TD dime in Hightower’s hands think toward the end of the half that was dropped I read. 

8 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Not really I disagree Wentz is pretty consistent if we are looking at his complete body those stats might not be what you want but doesn’t vary often 

  Not sure what the issue is here. It is fairly obvious that Wentz is a good QB, just not elite like most thought. Maybe he changes our view, but he is what he is for now. 1-2 games will not change my thinking. Good QB's make the players around him better, not the other way around, so I disagree that rookie WR's are the reason or the line is not doing its job... Rogers plays consistently great no matter who suits up around him. He is elite. Brady is the same...

1 minute ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Not really I disagree Wentz is pretty consistent if we are looking at his complete body those stats might not be what you want but doesn’t vary often 

61 games with Wentz ..... 12 of those games we scored under 20 points   

                                              17 we scored over 30

                                              32 we scored between 20 -29
 

In contrast here is Foles ......       2017 -2018  ... 12 games       

6 under 20           6 games over 30     ...one game (Tampa loss 2nd game of 2018 we scored 27)   Basically all over the place.  He also had the luxury of having more weapons in the 2018 season.  

If you look at Wentz ... one in 5 games we score under 20.   And lets not use the obvious excuse of injury because ... if you look at it, the games went in streaks.    3 in a row in 2016, the first 2 this year ... and 3 out of a 5 game stretch last year when we were struggling.  

That's pretty consistent from Wentz.   You also see the trends each year where when the team stabilizes, he puts up more points.     Now obviously 2017 for Wentz... only one game under 20, and 8 of them over 30 ... would be great to get that again, but we are going to need a lot of other things around the QB to improve to make that happen.  

The trend this year  ....through 5 games...... we scored   17, 19, 23 , 25, 29 ....     this is the trend that I like here and want to see continue for the offense, especially with the young group in there.   I'm not really concerned with the Dec 4, 2016 game vs the Bengals  or the Oct 21, 2018 game vs Carolina where we struggled.    The 51 points vs Denver in 2017 means nothing as well.   The here and now and the future of this team, with this group of players is my concern.     I think it's important to see good offensive showing from this group going forward.  We have a young group that if we can get some decent players out of the group, then we can focus more on adding to the defense, which to me is the bigger issue going forward.    WE are DL heavy, and that DL is getting old.  The LBs and DBs need a lot of help.  WE could end up replacing all the ones starting this year by 2022.  

 

 

 

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

what is the trend?

If you need me to tell you then you aren't watching Wentz.