1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

I really don't care about how my QB does with no help.

This is the argument I tried to explain(fail as usual) about Fields. He had no tools. Like Hurts,they wanted to see how he did even with lack of tools. Now they are building a team for him,just like we did for Hurts. With this draft they will add alot of pieces. Maybe not a great team this year,but I'm sure they will be better than last. If things hold together,then they should be a team to take seriously in 2024. I have man crush on DJ Moore,pity he left the Panthers,but he will be a nice weapon in Chicago

22 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

No case for O’Cyrus, he’s going to be good but just not a Stout style Lineman. Clearly our team needs somebody stout against the run inside at DT. Most likely team need filled in the first two rounds of this draft.

You brought him up,but now that I got on board you want to run the train off tracks because I got on board. Another juvenile move.Scouting reports are calling him "immovable" that seems pretty stout to me and if he wasn't stout I doubt he would be the #1 G in this draft. SO either Torrence or DaWand at 30 is fine by me,even better if we trade the 30 back and still get one. Been working on a packers trade which is a possible one.Drop back to 1 and grab their round 4 116 pick. At 166 we can find a bu type guy that has the potential to grow and learn and contribute. I think 116 would be a perfect spot to add DTR(QB UCLA) and boot Book out as a 3,or put him on the PS. We got a better 2 in than Shew or at least as good so we can take a little flier on DTR. 4th won't hurt too bad,If GB likes Njigba they will need to move to 10. If they want a Zay Flowers,they will stay at 15

14 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/lists/2023-nfl-draft-ocyrus-torrence-scouting-report/   Yeah just AWFUL 🤣 They have him as a top 15 pick,if I can get him at 30 what is the issue??? With his size and weight be could also be a RT if we chose to move him in that direction,but why not get an immediate starter at 30? I would take him or DaWand Jones with NP(who can also start at RG. Either has the capacity to play both spots if called upon

Got into details. O’Cyrus going to be a hit for somebody. But he’s not a smart athletic type Stout likes to develop. A big mauler. Just not a fit here. See the difference?

14 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/lists/2023-nfl-draft-ocyrus-torrence-scouting-report/   Yeah just AWFUL 🤣 They have him as a top 15 pick,if I can get him at 30 what is the issue??? With his size and weight be could also be a RT if we chose to move him in that direction,but why not get an immediate starter at 30? I would take him or DaWand Jones with NP(who can also start at RG. Either has the capacity to play both spots if called upon

Look at the guys Stout gets. 

14 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

So Davis isn't stout against the run? And we need to see Dean step in/up this year at LB? RG is not a position of need? IDK how stout you need to be allowing zero sacks of your QB. Sounds pretty stout to me. He is also good at pass pro. He can be an immediate starter,and with a nice O line,our RBBC will do just fine. So if you don't want Torrence who is your starting RG this year?

Davis was key versus the run. No doubt. But he wasn’t in we were terrible.

4 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

So tell me again 25 is old. How long did Brady play? Favre? Manning? You need to remove your head from your arse if you don't think QB's are playing longer than ever. You have a hang up about age and it's a STUPID argument. Isn't every QB a "system QB"???? You either get a QB that fits your system or you change your system to fit the QB??? If you do neither you won't win many game. This is a ridiculous argument. Once again you FAILED to read about him.The mere fact he played at all is an amazing show of fortitude. You're just mad I picked him out when he was on nobodys radar and you can't stand it and it's COMICAL 🤣. So immature

I’ve known all about him for years. I’m not mad at all you liked him to rise. Fine with me. But rising in college is not the NFL. I never said he couldn’t do it in college. Never once said that.

I’m not saying 25 is too old for the NFL. I’m saying it’s a heck of an advantage to be 25 playing against 19 year olds.

4 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

So tell me again 25 is old. How long did Brady play? Favre? Manning? You need to remove your head from your arse if you don't think QB's are playing longer than ever. You have a hang up about age and it's a STUPID argument. Isn't every QB a "system QB"???? You either get a QB that fits your system or you change your system to fit the QB??? If you do neither you won't win many game. This is a ridiculous argument. Once again you FAILED to read about him.The mere fact he played at all is an amazing show of fortitude. You're just mad I picked him out when he was on nobodys radar and you can't stand it and it's COMICAL 🤣. So immature

He was the top recruit in the state years ago. Not some nobody. Just because you finally found out about him doesn’t mean he wasn’t well known.

8 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

So now I like DTR like I like Hooker,what bash you got on him fool???? Hooker will be drafted by round 2(maybe late 1) book it. So when he gets picked you will look like the fool.; Tell me again what round Hurts was drafted in?????

I’ve stated he’ll get drafted much earlier than I see his value. Only proof comes from him being successful in the pros.

6 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Here is the thing.  You focus on "calling it early"  ...or " how good someone is at a certain age".. .

How about this instead.   It's 2023 now,  what matters is how good someone is now.   QBs are playing to age 40 and beyond now...  so what if a QB is 22 or 24...  he could easily have 12 or 15 years left...what matters is how good he is now and if you think he can improve. 

Bryce Harper said he hopes to play for the Phillies until he is 45.   I say why not?  The sports science has improved so much....we had our center Kelce running like a fullback blocking in space at age 34.  Why can't a QB play at an elite physical level even longer than that?    Brady was a better athlete when he retired than when he was drafted.  It's evolution.  

You guys missing the whole point. When did I say Hooker is too old to play in the pros? Never…that’s when.

It finally became good on college at 25. That is a key and noteworthy age situation.

6 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Here is the thing.  You focus on "calling it early"  ...or " how good someone is at a certain age".. .

How about this instead.   It's 2023 now,  what matters is how good someone is now.   QBs are playing to age 40 and beyond now...  so what if a QB is 22 or 24...  he could easily have 12 or 15 years left...what matters is how good he is now and if you think he can improve. 

Bryce Harper said he hopes to play for the Phillies until he is 45.   I say why not?  The sports science has improved so much....we had our center Kelce running like a fullback blocking in space at age 34.  Why can't a QB play at an elite physical level even longer than that?    Brady was a better athlete when he retired than when he was drafted.  It's evolution.  

Hooker was a whole different QB at 22. That’s when you normally are finishing your college career. I’m sure there is a whole huge list of players that would haven’t dominated in college if allowed to play until 25. 

4 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I’ve known all about him for years. I’m not mad at all you liked him to rise. Fine with me. But rising in college is not the NFL. I never said he couldn’t do it in college. Never once said that.

That's how I feel about RBs.   They get to the pros and they no longer are the best athlete by far on the field 

5 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I’ve known all about him for years. I’m not mad at all you liked him to rise. Fine with me. But rising in college is not the NFL. I never said he couldn’t do it in college. Never once said that.

Like all players "do it in college" that's how you get to the NFL draft barring your occasional walk-on it's pretty much the same for everyone

5 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Got into details. O’Cyrus going to be a hit for somebody. But he’s not a smart athletic type Stout likes to develop. A big mauler. Just not a fit here. See the difference?

Most say "he is an immovable object",so that seems stout to me???

5 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I’m not saying 25 is too old for the NFL. I’m saying it’s a heck of an advantage to be 25 playing against 19 year olds.

Oh there's a 180. You said before to team wouldn't want a 25 year old college QB,that was your big bash on him(we argued for pages upon pages. DTR another bottom pick I had for us,but he is also being noticed now and has moved up to the point we can't get him unless we scare up a round 4 pick somewhere(which could come with a trade back). Seems to me a 25 Year old QB would be more mature and have the ability to transition to a new play style if that's what his new team asks of him instead of a 20 year old out racing cars in his spare time.Torrence or DaWand are both fine as our 2nd pick(wherever that pick comes) Both are tail end round 1 picks/early 2's and we have 2 pro bowl players to replace possibly 2 years in a row

5 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

He was the top recruit in the state years ago. Not some nobody. Just because you finally found out about him doesn’t mean he wasn’t well known.

At seasons end last year he was a round 7 or UDFA,so that argument also goes by the wayside

1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Hooker was a whole different QB at 22. That’s when you normally are finishing your college career. I’m sure there is a whole huge list of players that would haven’t dominated in college if allowed to play until 25. 

SO,in other words he is "NFL ready" Aren't those the guy you want to draft?

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/ocyrus-torrence-g-florida-nfl-draft-scouting-report-2023/ Sorry,but I have no clue what else you can ask from a RG than this. he is a "stout" mauler who is also good at pass pro and has given up ZERO QB sacks. Maybe you want a RG with a 90 degree pecker to go with you into the forest,but he's a damn good RG. He should become an all pro somewhere,I'd like that to be in Philly. I absolutely cannot rule him out. He also has the chops to BU Lane if push came to shove. DaWand also has the capability to play both spots. I would be fine with either. I tend to lean a little towards Torrence because he seems to have more tenacity what DaWand. DaWand would have to adjust to the RG spot from RT, Torrence can start there immediately. So rule him out if you want,I can't

1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Hooker was a whole different QB at 22. That’s when you normally are finishing your college career. I’m sure there is a whole huge list of players that would haven’t dominated in college if allowed to play until 25. 

Barring his injury there would be 5 QB's going in the top 10,for someone who may have a QB on their final contract year,he would be a steal in round 2

SO,JMO,but I believe our first target is Van Ness,may need to take him at 10,but maybe we can slide back a pick or 3. Trade with GB at 15 and either keep our fingers crossed he falls to 15,or use the additional pick to make another short trade back up to 12/13. Either way,I feel he is the target. he just fits everything we want to do on this team. We know we could use another DT. We could probably forego another WR early and hope Quez can come back to be more effective,but the BU's are poor and need some new blood even if BU's. Alot are pounding the table for Gibbs,but IMO he is just another clone RB and we have guys with similar skill sets. Could also add a cheap RB in FA following the draft as insurance for Penny,so to me our second pick would be RG/RT or DT and the other of those at 62 unless you think Davis will be enough in the middle. if that's the case I like Julius Brents the CB from Kansas state at 62(could also trade back there as well) 

AT perry still intrigues me at 94. he's not super fast,but he's a BIG WR almost a TE. Depending on who we played I could see him rotate with Quez in the slot. Different styles create mis-matches. many WR's I like for us,but have no clue what Howie thinks. Flowers is the top slot guy for me, I also like the kid from NC. Since DTR will be out of reach now,my next(3rd time for this) QB prospect in 7 or UDFA would be Clayton Tune from Houston. Needs spit and polish,but we have time for that

FWIW at 4:30 the USFL kicks off with the Philly Stars

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10072474-espn-cardinals-budda-baker-eyes-contract-to-be-no-1-safety-eagles-linked-to-trade Nice,but the moneys not there

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2023/4/15/23684430/eagles-news-howie-roseman-adetomiwa-adebawore-northwestern-nfl-draft-rumors-defensive-line-tackle-dl  There we go then. Offers a little direction. Personally I like Van Ness better,but if we moved way back from 10 then......