6 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Mischaracterizing me completely. I’m the first one here ****ing about the FO.

Yes, but then you jump right in on trashing the player instead of wait and see what happens outside.    You love dog, we know that, you think Wentz got Doug fired and is a big reason ... " everything adds up now"    What if Wentz liked Doug, just thinks it's normal to have back and forth debating about stuff... we liked that part during the draft process when his college coach basically said we gave him full control to make all adjustments, sometimes even just calling formations and letting him do the rest... but now, since we like Doug, we call it the QB being spoiled and only wanting his way.  This from a generation of teammates who don't remember the days of QBs having control.    To me, if Wentz wanted Doug fired, he would still be here.  I think both Doug and Wentz had their ultimate issue with Howie ...and how he didn't give them the right players to work with, not the soap opera stuff.  The soap opera  stuff only becomes an issue when you feel like you are dealt a bad hand.  Coach can call better plays if he has confidence in his players... QB doesn't have to play hero ball.  Doug was probably happy to leave knowing the roster stinks and Howie is in charge of fixing it.  If Wentz is intelligent, why is it hard to see why he would want out too.     

And that is the issue... you set up your situation in such a way... people who have proven success here, want to leave.   If i'm in charge of any organization,  the #1 thing is making sure people want to come work for me... not leave.  Especially anyone considered good at their job.  I can't have those people succeed elsewhere, more than they succeeded here, especially if my organization goes backwards. 

I think this is Howie's version of Chip's 2015 season... except, its not going to be one season... but 2 or 3 years down the road, if Lurie gets to watch Wentz win playoff games and if we don't... should mean bye bye Howie.     No more Doug or Wentz to blame!  All Howie now!

6 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So No Mas it seems your feeling anxiety because you believe Wentz is heading towards MVP elsewhere. I’m not so worried about that.

Joe,let me take a stab at this lol. Ham,what Joe is saying is, if Wentz goes on and plays lights out elsewhere, will a light go off over Luries head? Will Lurie finally figure out the issue is HOWIE(as I just stated in my previous post?) I dont think Joe cares what Wentz does,what he means is will the light finally go off if he does well somewhere else? 

Just seems to me the Egg on the Face....is already there. Fired the coach to take the fall. Seems like business as usual. They’ll take more hits on bad choices and spin it towards their positives. Or accept certain mistakes with a path forward. Normal CEO stuff. They are very good at it. Getting rid of DJax and going with Chip after firing AR....looks really really bad...doesn’t it? Dream Team was epic terrible! Marcus Smith was a terrible first choice. I can go on and on....

6 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

So,as I said,finding "clogging" issues used to be what I did in businesses. And I will say again I am not on the inside. What I am seeing is Howie totally giving Lurie the snow job and Lurie is buying it. To have a successful team, you need a "football guy" at or near the top. Neither Lurie or Howie are those. Seems to me like 2 rich guys just having fun. SO,if you have your top 2 guys who are NOT football guys,then as owner/managers there are 2 options. First,you can do nothing,blame whomever and keep hiring other people you can blame(this is what's going on now) OR you can ADMIT "we' aren't football guys" then HIRE that person. If Lurie and Howie were honest and had this talk,that is what they SHOULD do. If Lurie hired me,this would be my presentation to him and let him make his call. No need to fire Howie,but you need a "football" guy near the top of the food chain

I’m sure you are expecting that call

7 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Yes, but then you jump right in on trashing the player instead of wait and see what happens outside.    You love dog, we know that, you think Wentz got Doug fired and is a big reason ... " everything adds up now"    What if Wentz liked Doug, just thinks it's normal to have back and forth debating about stuff... we liked that part during the draft process when his college coach basically said we gave him full control to make all adjustments, sometimes even just calling formations and letting him do the rest... but now, since we like Doug, we call it the QB being spoiled and only wanting his way.  This from a generation of teammates who don't remember the days of QBs having control.    To me, if Wentz wanted Doug fired, he would still be here.  I think both Doug and Wentz had their ultimate issue with Howie ...and how he didn't give them the right players to work with, not the soap opera stuff.  The soap opera  stuff only becomes an issue when you feel like you are dealt a bad hand.  Coach can call better plays if he has confidence in his players... QB doesn't have to play hero ball.  Doug was probably happy to leave knowing the roster stinks and Howie is in charge of fixing it.  If Wentz is intelligent, why is it hard to see why he would want out too.     

And that is the issue... you set up your situation in such a way... people who have proven success here, want to leave.   If i'm in charge of any organization,  the #1 thing is making sure people want to come work for me... not leave.  Especially anyone considered good at their job.  I can't have those people succeed elsewhere, more than they succeeded here, especially if my organization goes backwards. 

I think this is Howie's version of Chip's 2015 season... except, its not going to be one season... but 2 or 3 years down the road, if Lurie gets to watch Wentz win playoff games and if we don't... should mean bye bye Howie.     No more Doug or Wentz to blame!  All Howie now!

I blame Rosie and Wentz. I don’t believe Wentz is leaving because Rosie and his talent evaluation. I believe the curtain has been lifted too much on his image. He can’t be the golden boy that he was once seen as. Lost some of that because Foles won the SB and they built a statue of Foles...not Wentz. Had teammates build shrines in the locker room for Foles. Ever hear about a player building a shrine for Wentz? Fans in this city will rip you apart. He wants to be the golden boy. That image is tarnished here. So he wants out. Not about Rosie picking players.

15 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Does it matter how Wentz does elsewhere that much? Ok it does matter. But reports were all we wanted to keep Wentz. Listened to him over our HC to create the situation. Fired our only SB winning HC for him. But he still wants out. What are the options? I think plenty of fans are going to think about how much we invested in that Primma Donna. He has been disappointing. Not sure how else to see it. He looked like crap AND is demanding out after all that. I like to think we have a backbone. We say good riddance. Isn’t going to happen here. Only thing that should matter to us.

But who has the narrative that they fired Doug because of Wentz?   I don't see it that way at all.. you are looking for the villain... i'm saying the problem is not a villain... it's a idiot, which idiot is it... Lurie or Howie... or combo... IDK.  But why is it not obvious that if firing Doug was on Wentz, why does he want to leave.   I think it's easy to see Wentz already wanted to leave, and they fired Doug anyway.    Listen to Lurie.. "We have an asset"  nobody talks about a guy like that unless there are insinuating a trade.   

and again... without emotion, which could easily be misguided on your part trying to find a villain for your boy Doug.   If there is success elsewhere and no reports of any BS stuff... that seems to ONLY happen in Philly.    Then what does it look like. should be obvious to fans that we got snowed again, and Howie/Lurie have no excuses but to blame themselves.  

Right now you are in DeSean is in a gang mode... " it all adds up ...etc"   Like you know it... you need it because you need to be angry at someone... why would anyone want to leave my team, lets look at all excuses to tear him down as a human being.    I'm in wait and see mode.  Because knowing our front office... not hard to sniff BS.   

We could trade him to the least talented team in the league. He doesn’t control that. So it isn’t about chasing a championship...or whatever you’re alluding to.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I blame Rosie and Wentz. I don’t believe Wentz is leaving because Rosie and his talent evaluation. I believe the curtain has been lifted too much on his image. He can’t be the golden boy that he was once seen as. Lost some of that because Foles won the SB and they built a statue of Foles...not Wentz. Had teammates build shrines in the locker room for Foles. Ever hear about a player building a shrine for Wentz? Fans in this city will rip you apart. He wants to be the golden boy. That image is tarnished here. So he wants out. Not about Rosie picking players.

OK... then if he wins elsewhere... again, the organization needs to look at how they contributed to whatever reason he wanted to leave.   To me, a player should never succeed elsewhere that you invested in that much.   Not a franchise QB.  Not one you made a financial commitment to.  Neither should a coach like Andy has done.  mcCoy or any other type minor player, not a big deal.. but not a guy who is supposed to be face of franchise like Andy or Wentz.   Once you get that guy, it's up to you to make it work.

10 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Joe,let me take a stab at this lol. Ham,what Jos is saying is, if Wentz goes on and plays lights out, will a light go off over Luries head? Will Lurie finally figure out the issue is HOWIE(as I just stated in my previous post? I dont think Joe cares what Wentz does,what he means is will the light finally go off if he does well somewhere else? 

Lurie and Rosie know they screwed up. Still here. Do you think they believe everything is everyone else’s fault? I don’t. I think they believe they can learn and fix and improve going forward. They still believe they’re the smartest in the room. AR is in back to back SB. He’s a great coach. You fired him. McDermott is a great coach ....you fired him. Hadn’t effected Lurie and Rosie accept they aren’t enjoying their parties as much nowadays. They point to how they orchestrated a Championship of their own...wink at each other ....and walk above all the stupid pions.

10 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

But who has the narrative that they fired Doug because of Wentz?   I don't see it that way at all.. you are looking for the villain... i'm saying the problem is not a villain... it's a idiot, which idiot is it... Lurie or Howie... or combo... IDK.  But why is it not obvious that if firing Doug was on Wentz, why does he want to leave.   I think it's easy to see Wentz already wanted to leave, and they fired Doug anyway.    Listen to Lurie.. "We have an asset"  nobody talks about a guy like that unless there are insinuating a trade.   

and again... without emotion, which could easily be misguided on your part trying to find a villain for your boy Doug.   If there is success elsewhere and no reports of any BS stuff... that seems to ONLY happen in Philly.    Then what does it look like. should be obvious to fans that we got snowed again, and Howie/Lurie have no excuses but to blame themselves.  

Right now you are in DeSean is in a gang mode... " it all adds up ...etc"   Like you know it... you need it because you need to be angry at someone... why would anyone want to leave my team, lets look at all excuses to tear him down as a human being.    I'm in wait and see mode.  Because knowing our front office... not hard to sniff BS.   

It was reported "Fracture between Wentz and Pedey”

 DJax always had friends growing up that were gang members. I was the one telling you don’t believe their spin. You are learning at least....but too slow.

  But I sniff the Bs. You hear when all these teams are making aggressive offers. 

13 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

OK... then if he wins elsewhere... again, the organization needs to look at how they contributed to whatever reason he wanted to leave.   To me, a player should never succeed elsewhere that you invested in that much.   Not a franchise QB.  Not one you made a financial commitment to.  Neither should a coach like Andy has done.  mcCoy or any other type minor player, not a big deal.. but not a guy who is supposed to be face of franchise like Andy or Wentz.   Once you get that guy, it's up to you to make it work.

FO can’t control everything. Players noticeably played harder for the backups than Wentz. Players complained about how Wentz went about business. Even worse is players pointing out the environment of how they bent over way too much for Carson. The FO did everything for Wentz. They traded up massively to select him. Paid him a megadeal. Let him go over the HC head. Shipped out the other voice of team leader in Jenkins so Wentz was definitely the man. Fired the HC for him. They gave him too much power....which backfired.

5 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I blame Rosie and Wentz. I don’t believe Wentz is leaving because Rosie and his talent evaluation. I believe the curtain has been lifted too much on his image. He can’t be the golden boy that he was once seen as. Lost some of that because Foles won the SB and they built a statue of Foles...not Wentz. Had teammates build shrines in the locker room for Foles. Ever hear about a player building a shrine for Wentz? Fans in this city will rip you apart. He wants to be the golden boy. That image is tarnished here. So he wants out. Not about Rosie picking players.

I believe Wentz is watching football in January and thinking... look at all these talented WRs .... look at how these OLs block.   Look at how I am the only pro bowl player that Howie drafted since my buddy Ertz.  Look at how Howie lied to Malcolm and Zach about redoing their contracts... I got the crap beat out of me these last 2 years.... we aren;t going anywhere here, my friends are leaving... why should I want to stay.  They even wanted to tell Doug who to hire.

You have great soap opera theory on stuff... it fits your narrative when you either absolutely love or hate someone.   I just look at it from, what would I think.  I see dumpster fire for the last 2 years... brutal talent, and nobody in their prime... say a 2nd contract, other than Wentz himself... Why would he want to stay.  The money isn't a reason, he gets paid either way, and has an even better chance of earning more if he goes to a better team where he has a chance to succeed.  The players aren't life long fans of the team.  If I was a 28 year old QB, especially after seeing Luck have to retire due to getting physically beat up playing behind a bad OL... why would I want to stay in Philly.  

It can never be the obvious answer that we suck, needs to be attacking the character or a player that you feel wronged you... lol.   Players want to win... this isnt going to happen here during a rebuild.  Hurts is perfect for now... keep expectations low, he will make some highlight plays with his legs... and fans will ultimately twist his stats to try to make him look good.  Wentz is a bad person, until he proves it otherwise with another team... then we have to think twice. I'm just saying... be prepared.   As I am for the possibility that Doug may succeed elsewhere, which also reflects poorly on Lurie/Howie.  

This is more than the simple minded... McCoy vs Murray... Reagor vs Jefferson... Metcalf vs JJAW.   That's minor BS.  Happens all the time with every team, nobody traded away a player for $30 dead cap. nobody fired a coach after just 3 years post SB win.... no GM has fired and hired 3 different coaches.  This is major stuff.. firsts, that went down here is a span of a month.

Who doesn’t think we fired Pedey for Wentz?

28 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Joe,let me take a stab at this lol. Ham,what Joe is saying is, if Wentz goes on and plays lights out elsewhere, will a light go off over Luries head? Will Lurie finally figure out the issue is HOWIE(as I just stated in my previous post?) I dont think Joe cares what Wentz does,what he means is will the light finally go off if he does well somewhere else? 

BINGO... simple question with simple answer.    

6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I believe Wentz is watching football in January and thinking... look at all these talented WRs .... look at how these OLs block.   Look at how I am the only pro bowl player that Howie drafted since my buddy Ertz.  Look at how Howie lied to Malcolm and Zach about redoing their contracts... I got the crap beat out of me these last 2 years.... we aren;t going anywhere here, my friends are leaving... why should I want to stay.  They even wanted to tell Doug who to hire.

You have great soap opera theory on stuff... it fits your narrative when you either absolutely love or hate someone.   I just look at it from, what would I think.  I see dumpster fire for the last 2 years... brutal talent, and nobody in their prime... say a 2nd contract, other than Wentz himself... Why would he want to stay.  The money isn't a reason, he gets paid either way, and has an even better chance of earning more if he goes to a better team where he has a chance to succeed.  The players aren't life long fans of the team.  If I was a 28 year old QB, especially after seeing Luck have to retire due to getting physically beat up playing behind a bad OL... why would I want to stay in Philly.  

It can never be the obvious answer that we suck, needs to be attacking the character or a player that you feel wronged you... lol.   Players want to win... this isnt going to happen here during a rebuild.  Hurts is perfect for now... keep expectations low, he will make some highlight plays with his legs... and fans will ultimately twist his stats to try to make him look good.  Wentz is a bad person, until he proves it otherwise with another team... then we have to think twice. I'm just saying... be prepared.   As I am for the possibility that Doug may succeed elsewhere, which also reflects poorly on Lurie/Howie.  

This is more than the simple minded... McCoy vs Murray... Reagor vs Jefferson... Metcalf vs JJAW.   That's minor BS.  Happens all the time with every team, nobody traded away a player for $30 dead cap. nobody fired a coach after just 3 years post SB win.... no GM has fired and hired 3 different coaches.  This is major stuff.. firsts, that went down here is a span of a month.

How would Wentz know he’s being trade to a Contending team? He doesn’t have a no trade clause. He could go to the worst team in the league.

In Philly Wentz has pro bowl GIn Brooks, RT on Johnson and c in kelce. First round pick Dillard. Who has better than that? 

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

Who doesn’t think we fired Pedey for Wentz?

ME ...fired because they disagreed on the coaching hires.  Which you keep saying, but due to you having to make Wentz the villain.. it seems to be going over your head.   

Heck all our money and draft has been towards offense

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

ME ...fired because they disagreed on the coaching hires.  Which you keep saying, but due to you having to make Wentz the villain.. it seems to be going over your head.   

You’re the only one

But I do agree that it was about control. Pedey wanted control of his team. Wanted to be the only voice in the QB room is what he says. The FO knows better. All the non football guys have the answers. Fire Groh! Bring in Mm and others. Coddle the QB and let him complain to us instead of giving the HC power. So how did that work? They are still here though. It was their plan...went straight to the dumpster. They still making the decisions. Nothing changed really. Just wash and repeat.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

How would Wentz know he’s being trade to a Contending team? He doesn’t have a no trade clause. He could go to the worst team in the league.

Because ANYTHING is better than what we have given him ... AND DOUG (see what I'm saying , i'm including your boy in this, both of them)  this was a dumpster fire... all guys taking their first NFL snap at every position on offense, guy who just missed on Metcalf and Jefferson...etc.    This is the worst job in the league... otherwise your boy Hurts would have done better too. He isn't going to what you would call the worst team in the league... those guys would go rookie QB.  And on top of that, if he has confidence in himself, he looks at the surrounding cast.  

I think you short change the dumpster fire of a roster we have here.   You should be angry that it was given to Doug and he was fired because of it.  

6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

ME ...fired because they disagreed on the coaching hires.  Which you keep saying, but due to you having to make Wentz the villain.. it seems to be going over your head.   

Wentz isn’t the story book hero either. He got people fired. Anyway you look at it.

4 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Heck all our money and draft has been towards offense

You’re the only one

So you don't think Doug was fired over wanting to promote Press Taylor and the DL coach up to coordinator spots ... and Lurie didn't like that plan.  It was simply... Wentz telling Lurie to fire Doug, even though Wentz didn't want to be here.  LOL  

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

Wentz isn’t the story book hero either. He got people fired. Anyway you look at it.

He got people fired?   Maybe he and Doug kept people having jobs after what they were able to do last year?   It's how I look at it.  Then they were dealt a worse hand, much worse this year.  That guy who dealt is still here.  

I think it’s easy to see and blame Rosie, Lurie and Wentz. Pedey has his faults. But I find it hard to pin this stuff on him. I believe Groh is a good coach. Young and inexperienced as an OC. So he needed to learn on the job. Just like much of our coaching staff will have to do. But if you forced him to fire Groh and made him take the approach we did in 2020. It’s clear. The non football guys were wrong. I can’t really blame the playcalls either. I saw plenty of opportunities for Wentz to hit a guy that was open. But he didn’t throw it or was inaccurate. It also sounds like Wentz went rogue and called his own play from the huddle. Different than an audible. So what playcalls were Pedey? What playcalls were Wentz? No way to know that. 

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Wentz isn’t the story book hero either. He got people fired. Anyway you look at it.

And that is why I bring up ... if there is success elsewhere and no BS (like there only seems to be here)    I think you will go to the grave with the soap opera stuff, it's your personality, sports can't ever be the best players and coaches win...need to storybook part of it for you.   But like GB said, I'm thinking does the lightbulb go off for Lurie... me or you don't matter.  I could care less the BS stuff... when they won a SB 3 years ago and I got to see my kids jumping up and down and all the emotion in the room... I didn't care about all the BS you worry about.  I knew my football team was good and they were able to execute to win.  The 5 year old stuff I can do without.   I don't need a hero, have one in my dad.  I need a player to do his job.  I need a person to pick talented players so my team is in position to play for a title.   IMO, I give credit to the GM to put a roster that can compete... the coach and the players then have to go win.   My issue with the Eagles.. .I think perfect coaching and perfect QB with this crap wouldn't matter.  The GM failed with the roster, yet he is still here.  

9 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So you don't think Doug was fired over wanting to promote Press Taylor and the DL coach up to coordinator spots ... and Lurie didn't like that plan.  It was simply... Wentz telling Lurie to fire Doug, even though Wentz didn't want to be here.  LOL  

Probably both. Non football guys wanted to be in control. Pedey wanted control. Partly so the QB knew who was in charge so he would become coachable. FO can’t have that. Rather hire the next puppet. But yes....I believe Wentz had a fractured relationship with Pedey. Thinks he should be in charge, basically. It’s Oedey’s offense. He didn’t need whomever fit that job as OC. Just needed his underlings...to do with his voice...so he could lead. His vision forward instead of five voices in Wentz(or whomever) ear. I actually think Pedey could work with Wentz. He just needed to be clearly  in charge so Wentz had nobody to go over his head to talk to. If he started killing plays in the huddle again he’d be benched by the guy in charge. In the film room they pint out ‘Why didn’t you throw to your open first reread?’ He’d have to admit he screwed up. Accept coaching.