2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I think it’s easy to see and blame Rosie, Lurie and Wentz. Pedey has his faults. But I find it hard to pin this stuff on him. I believe Groh is a good coach. Young and inexperienced as an OC. So he needed to learn on the job. Just like much of our coaching staff will have to do. But if you forced him to fire Groh and made him take the approach we did in 2020. It’s clear. The non football guys were wrong. I can’t really blame the playcalls either. I saw plenty of opportunities for Wentz to hit a guy that was open. But he didn’t throw it or was inaccurate. It also sounds like Wentz went rogue and called his own play from the huddle. Different than an audible. So what playcalls were Pedey? What playcalls were Wentz? No way to know that. 

Right... without getting into it., if you took a 5 year old and said what is the problem... first thought should be the roster isn't good enough.  Not a play call or a bad throw.  That's minor stuff.  

Same with what I'm trying to say... every team makes the mistakes you are harping on with Howie (I would have picked this guy... " I called it"  etc)   

But no team in a span of a month ... fired a SB winning coach 3 years after winning a SB     ... took a $30 mil cap hit while possibly giving away a franchise QB ... no GM has fired and hired 3 different coaches.

That is major stuff ... not the little stuff you guys debate on who we should have picked in round 4.  Major stuff that if it goes wrong... will be talked about in a huge way around the league.  This is for sure, all in on Howie here.  Or Lurie being all in on himself... whatever your view.  

15 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

He got people fired?   Maybe he and Doug kept people having jobs after what they were able to do last year?   It's how I look at it.  Then they were dealt a worse hand, much worse this year.  That guy who dealt is still here.  

People kept having jobs because Foles won the SB.  He was not very good and had a loosing record in 2018. Foles had the TEAM step up. Made the playoffs. Won a playoff game. Win another and go to the NFC Championship if Alshon doesn’t drop that pass and it’s intercepted. And isn’t there something with Wentz being a part of the problem developing these receivers? Seems pretty clear he played favorites. Forced passes to Ertz and held the ball while others were open presumably being the earlier read/option in the play.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Probably both. Non football guys wanted to be in control. Pedey wanted control. Partly so the QB knew who was in charge so he would become coachable. FO can’t have that. Rather hire the next puppet. But yes....I believe Wentz had a fractured relationship with Pedey. Thinks he should be in charge, basically. It’s Oedey’s offense. He didn’t need whomever fit that job as OC. Just needed his underlings...to do with his voice...so he could lead. His vision forward instead of five voices in Wentz(or whomever) ear. I actually think Pedey could work with Wentz. He just needed to be clearly  in charge so Wentz had nobody to go over his head to talk to. If he started killing plays in the huddle again he’d be benched by the guy in charge. In the film room they pint out ‘Why didn’t you throw to your open first reread?’ He’d have to admit he screwed up. Accept coaching.

But why do you miss the fact, it doesn't matter if Wentz wanted them to fire Doug if he didn't want to be here.   Like when those guys were hanging out on the field after the last game until past 1am...  Wentz, Ertz, Kelce... you don't think at that point the writing was on the wall.   Lurie giving the speech about Wentz being an " asset"    Wentz was already out, regardless of the coach.  Doug was fired afterwards.  Otherwise makes no sense.   " you ever fire a guy because he didn't get along with someone who wasn't going to be around anyway?    

LOL Lurie said "both Wentz and Hurts are assets" That means "both Wentz and Hurts are tradable" You have your QB or you have your "asset"

13 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

And that is why I bring up ... if there is success elsewhere and no BS (like there only seems to be here)    I think you will go to the grave with the soap opera stuff, it's your personality, sports can't ever be the best players and coaches win...need to storybook part of it for you.   But like GB said, I'm thinking does the lightbulb go off for Lurie... me or you don't matter.  I could care less the BS stuff... when they won a SB 3 years ago and I got to see my kids jumping up and down and all the emotion in the room... I didn't care about all the BS you worry about.  I knew my football team was good and they were able to execute to win.  The 5 year old stuff I can do without.   I don't need a hero, have one in my dad.  I need a player to do his job.  I need a person to pick talented players so my team is in position to play for a title.   IMO, I give credit to the GM to put a roster that can compete... the coach and the players then have to go win.   My issue with the Eagles.. .I think perfect coaching and perfect QB with this crap wouldn't matter.  The GM failed with the roster, yet he is still here.  

You don’t need a hero. That what you came out of that SB with? Foles was the underdog hero of hero’s. Brandon Graham was absolutely heroic. Defense didn’t play well. But that was the biggest sack fumble in the history. F yeah they were heroes! It was amazing against all odds. Underdogs the whole way....even though you believe we were the most talented. Vegas said otherwise. The fans and players wore masks saying otherwise. You missed so much of what was so special about that Championship 

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

People kept having jobs because Foles won the SB.  He was not very good and had a loosing record in 2018. Foles had the TEAM step up. Made the playoffs. Won a playoff game. Win another and go to the NFC Championship if Alshon doesn’t drop that pass and it’s intercepted. And isn’t there something with Wentz being a part of the problem developing these receivers? Seems pretty clear he played favorites. Forced passes to Ertz and held the ball while others were open presumably being the earlier read/option in the play.

OK.. .this is why I said ... if  there is success elsewhere... does the light bulb go off.   you just seem to want to stick to 100% Wentz is an a-hole and will never be good, we keep talking you can probably find a way to blame him for covid.   I'm trying to open up the possiblilty... I think probability that he will succeed elsewhere playing with better teammates than he did this year... which you could probably find on about 10 or 15 college teams.... I am also trying to say it's why Doug was set up to fail.   In your hate for Wentz, you keep missing this point I'm defending your boy.    Because, it's more important to trash Wentz than defend Doug it seems.    I'm just saying... much like DeSean being in a gang ... lets see how this turns out.  There is a possibility that the great Ham can be wrong about his soap opera assessment... just as there is a possibility that if we had a superbowl roster back in 2012 ... that Andy would have stuck around.  

10 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Right... without getting into it., if you took a 5 year old and said what is the problem... first thought should be the roster isn't good enough.  Not a play call or a bad throw.  That's minor stuff.  

Same with what I'm trying to say... every team makes the mistakes you are harping on with Howie (I would have picked this guy... " I called it"  etc)   

But no team in a span of a month ... fired a SB winning coach 3 years after winning a SB     ... took a $30 mil cap hit while possibly giving away a franchise QB ... no GM has fired and hired 3 different coaches.

That is major stuff ... not the little stuff you guys debate on who we should have picked in round 4.  Major stuff that if it goes wrong... will be talked about in a huge way around the league.  This is for sure, all in on Howie here.  Or Lurie being all in on himself... whatever your view.  

So taking a SB winning team down to 4-11-1 isn’t enough?

6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

But why do you miss the fact, it doesn't matter if Wentz wanted them to fire Doug if he didn't want to be here.   Like when those guys were hanging out on the field after the last game until past 1am...  Wentz, Ertz, Kelce... you don't think at that point the writing was on the wall.   Lurie giving the speech about Wentz being an " asset"    Wentz was already out, regardless of the coach.  Doug was fired afterwards.  Otherwise makes no sense.   " you ever fire a guy because he didn't get along with someone who wasn't going to be around anyway?    

Actually there was thought of Pedey not being fired. It wasn’t until the second meeting with Lurie that Pedey guy axed. Wentz wanted traded because he got benched and was the backup. 

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

LOL Lurie said "both Wentz and Hurts are assets" That means "both Wentz and Hurts are tradable" You have your QB or you have your "asset"

you either have your QB ... or you are looking for him.  for me... once I get one that shows he is good enough, it;s my job to put pieces around him to get there and then keep it going.   Success for Howie... then major fail.   I would say the same with a coach, if he proves he can win with a good roster (which not every coach can)  then it should be up to me to put he players around him.  Not only are we getting rid of both of those guys who showed they could do it with a good team.... both of them took the crap team last year and made the playoffs.  2 times they proved it.   Yet pretty much a record breaking type of dumpster fired was handed to them this year... and they will be gone but the GM stays.   Like I said, this is major stuff... not simple missed picks like we talk about all the time.  Should be wake up call down the road.  Pretty much why I would root for success from both Doug and Wentz in there next stops... to go along with Andy's success ... maybe Lurie wakes up.  

Can;t get this point across to Ham... he is in hate everything Wentz mode at the moment.   Was it Lee Harvey Oswold .. or Carson Wentz that shot Kennedy???   

I’m not disagreeing that it looks bad when guys leave and have success elsewhere. I’m saying it’s already been terrible. No more should be needed. So not sure what it would take. I’ve been the guy ****ing when they forced Groh firing. since they went to Ajayi ...again. Signed Malik and DJax. Heck was ****ing about the Chipper hire. Firing of AR. Firing of mcDetmott. Do they need success elsewhere? Pies all over the FO face for being in this position. All the things you mentioned. Already looks terrible.

4 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So taking a SB winning team down to 4-11-1 isn’t enough?

It's fun when you play dumb or obsess on something without getting the point.     The issue is Lurie... is it enough for him?   Already should be enough for you and me.  I posed the question about Lurie.  

9 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

OK.. .this is why I said ... if  there is success elsewhere... does the light bulb go off.   you just seem to want to stick to 100% Wentz is an a-hole and will never be good, we keep talking you can probably find a way to blame him for covid.   I'm trying to open up the possiblilty... I think probability that he will succeed elsewhere playing with better teammates than he did this year... which you could probably find on about 10 or 15 college teams.... I am also trying to say it's why Doug was set up to fail.   In your hate for Wentz, you keep missing this point I'm defending your boy.    Because, it's more important to trash Wentz than defend Doug it seems.    I'm just saying... much like DeSean being in a gang ... lets see how this turns out.  There is a possibility that the great Ham can be wrong about his soap opera assessment... just as there is a possibility that if we had a superbowl roster back in 2012 ... that Andy would have stuck around.  

I never said Wentz will never be good. Never remotely said that. I have his jersey.

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

It's fun when you play dumb or obsess on something without getting the point.     The issue is Lurie... is it enough for him?   Already should be enough for you and me.  I posed the question about Lurie.  

Clearly Lurie thinks he has all the answers. So nothing is enough. He had the answer to force fire the OC. Offense went straight downhill with his plan. Is there more needed? No. 

20 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Right... without getting into it., if you took a 5 year old and said what is the problem... first thought should be the roster isn't good enough.  Not a play call or a bad throw.  That's minor stuff.  

Same with what I'm trying to say... every team makes the mistakes you are harping on with Howie (I would have picked this guy... " I called it"  etc)   

But no team in a span of a month ... fired a SB winning coach 3 years after winning a SB     ... took a $30 mil cap hit while possibly giving away a franchise QB ... no GM has fired and hired 3 different coaches.

That is major stuff ... not the little stuff you guys debate on who we should have picked in round 4.  Major stuff that if it goes wrong... will be talked about in a huge way around the league.  This is for sure, all in on Howie here.  Or Lurie being all in on himself... whatever your view.  

Roster isn’t good enough? Then why was i the only one ****ing? Seems everybody was so disappointed in our season thinking we were contenders or something. I’ve endlessly been arguing about the FO and not liking the moves. But I’ve been pretty alone arguing this. So no...it evidently hasn’t been understood...or the thought...that the roster wasn’t good enough. Seems like prevailing fan sentiment has been we would win the East with ten wins this season.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I’m not disagreeing that it looks bad when guys leave and have success elsewhere. I’m saying it’s already been terrible. No more should be needed. So not sure what it would take. I’ve been the guy ****ing when they forced Groh firing. since they went to Ajayi ...again. Signed Malik and DJax. Heck was ****ing about the Chipper hire. Firing of AR. Firing of mcDetmott. Do they need success elsewhere? Pies all over the FO face for being in this position. All the things you mentioned. Already looks terrible.

But you keep obsessing with these little moves.    It's not the same as if you get a person you love as the face of your franchise... which at one point both Andy and Wentz were that person for Lurie.    it;s not McCoy, McDermitt... Groh... all the little BS that annoys you.  I'm talking, I'm a boss... I love this guy that I hired to work for me.  He is the face of my company.   He then leaves to find success elsewhere.    WHY?   

See ... to you all those little things look terrible.   But you are an Eagles fan... really invested in the team, we discuss and debate the smallest of thing.  But nobody else cares about that.  Are we talking about all the little mistakes any other franchise makes?    No, we talk about their coach and their QB for the most part.  The major stuff.  Who represents the organization. 

Like if Jason Garrett goes on to win a SB with another team... or if Dak goes to win with another team... that reflects different than if a coordinator or a linebacker leave and win.  If this happens with Wentz and or Doug in addition to Andy... it has to get Lurie there.    

You’re coming from hindsight. I’ve been saying it the whole time. But it hasn’t been popular opinion..,no

If only AR has success elsewhere they’ll see? Nope. If only McDermott has success elsewhere they’ll see? Nope. If only the offense falls to pieces if we go with the FO plan, they’ll see? Nope. On and on and on.....I understand your point of Pedey or Wentz or whomever having success elsewhere will make them look bad. Maybe force a change..,but nope.

10 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Clearly Lurie thinks he has all the answers. So nothing is enough. He had the answer to force fire the OC. Offense went straight downhill with his plan. Is there more needed? No. 

That's right now... it's why I said does he figure it out later.   

14 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

you either have your QB ... or you are looking for him.  for me... once I get one that shows he is good enough, it;s my job to put pieces around him to get there and then keep it going.   Success for Howie... then major fail.   I would say the same with a coach, if he proves he can win with a good roster (which not every coach can)  then it should be up to me to put he players around him.  Not only are we getting rid of both of those guys who showed they could do it with a good team.... both of them took the crap team last year and made the playoffs.  2 times they proved it.   Yet pretty much a record breaking type of dumpster fired was handed to them this year... and they will be gone but the GM stays.   Like I said, this is major stuff... not simple missed picks like we talk about all the time.  Should be wake up call down the road.  Pretty much why I would root for success from both Doug and Wentz in there next stops... to go along with Andy's success ... maybe Lurie wakes up.  

Can;t get this point across to Ham... he is in hate everything Wentz mode at the moment.   Was it Lee Harvey Oswold .. or Carson Wentz that shot Kennedy???   

Seems like you just explained my point. The Fo screwed up so much....so many times. Yet everybody else is leaving but them. So why do you expect change? I don’t disagree Wentz and Pedey and others having success elsewhere makes them look bad. I’m just pointing out the list is massive already...don’t need anymore. They are still here. 

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

That's right now... it's why I said does he figure it out later.   

So you think taking a Sb winning team(with their backup QB) down to 4-11-1 team in record time isn’t enough. That we need Wentz to have success elsewhere to be a bigger changing force. That’s our disagreement. I see your point...just don’t agree. Think they’ve clusterFd the whole thing already. Should have already been enough.

6 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

You’re coming from hindsight. I’ve been saying it the whole time. But it hasn’t been popular opinion..,no

Because you are focused on yourself ...as usual.     I'm focused on Lurie.   The only opinion that counts.  

5 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

That's right now... it's why I said does he figure it out later.   

Lurie is the problem. He’s wayyyy to involved. You suggesting he steps down? I just believe he says to himself I’ll use that as a life lesson to apply going forward. He still believes he’s the smartest in the room. 

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Because you are focused on yourself ...as usual.     I'm focused on Lurie.   The only opinion that counts.  

I’m talking about was the perception we had a crap roster. The answer is no. Been debating it here the whole time before thus season began.

Part of the issue is where do you separate Rosie and Lurie? I’m not sure you can. You can only fire Rosie and hope Lurie learns.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I’m talking about was the perception we had a crap roster. The answer is no. Been debating it here the whole time before thus season began.

You’re suggesting that this team didn’t have enough talent. I’d agree. But I’ve been alone.