2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So you think taking a Sb winning team(with their backup QB) down to 4-11-1 team in record time isn’t enough. That we need Wentz to have success elsewhere to be a bigger changing force. That’s our disagreement. I see your point...just don’t agree. Think they’ve clusterFd the whole thing already. Should have already been enough.

Always need to be what you think and your opinion doesn't it.   Can't have a conversation about the owner and what he thinks.  WE know we both disagree with him.. as do most.  Yes, it amy take a guy who the owner absolutely coveted to be his face of the franchise type of QB.   If that guy leaves ... because he wants to and then goes on to have success elsewhere, after you pay for that.   It's different than all the little things you bring up on your resume of how you would have done things different ..ie the " I called it back in 1977 when we drafted the other guy" type of stuff that every team does.   No team has had a coach for 14 years, then he goes on to win superbowl (s) elsewhere.  no team has ever traded a 28 year old franchise QB with a dead cap hit of $30 plus mil    ... no team has ever fired a coach 3 years after winning a SB.    

Other teams have all done those little " Ham is smarter than the rest of us type of little mistakes"    it's been my point. What extreme does it take on MAJOR stuff, for Lurie to wake up?  

And I think Wentz or Doug success elsewhere .. when they are put in better situation by another organization to succeed... just like Andy has been... I think it does the trick.   You can't be a trailblazer in firing a trading guys that you had that level of success, let them go elsewhere to have more... and you stay mediocre at best... and think it's ok.  IDK, hopefully Andy gets to hold another trophy later and it sparks something in Lurie's brain.  Who knows.  

I wasn’t happy going into the season with Gerry as the stud second level player. Didn’t think Maddox was the answer outside at CB2.  Didn’t think Hargrave was the right FA signing. Not hindsight.

  But COVID is a legit excuse. Not to bring in old players like Rosie tried to reason. Having 14 different Oline combinations is a nightmare. Let’s be fair. Especially in an AR offense(Pedey whatever). Can’t really blame much of that except the Peters decision. Which was a terrible decision. Been b1tch1ng about hanging on to old players for the last couple years. I thought DJax being fragile and old...but still thought he’d give us more than that. Just half of season of contribution would have been huge. Never saw Wentz being soooo bad. He was terrible. Could make plenty of excuses(plenty are legit). But he wasn’t part of the solution. He was actively a part of the problem. Reagor has been a durable player. Got injured in camp. Then week two. It hurt. Sanders got hurt. Ertz was on a free fall. We needed to trade him....offers were there. Didn’t pull the trigger...then he got injured. That was Rosie being greedy. We love it when it works out for us. But it screwed us on that one. We could have that missing fourth round pick right now.

I would also like to add ... via coach and QB.      Seems like we are trailblazers hiring such a young staff.     smartest guy in the room, not a good look if it fails.    As for QB ... we see where running QBs struggle to do anything as far as winning in the playoffs.  Lamar is a stud and Baltimore has a good defense... still struggling.  Murray, Tua... not doing anything as far as winning when it counts.  We invest in Hurts type.... if he fails and the former guy succeeds.... looks even more stupid.    I think a lot of things could finally allow Lurie to say WTF is going on around here.   Not about... should it have happened already BS... they will use injury as an excuse of why the roster stunk.   Shouldn't have that excuse going forward, not when you got rid of coach and QB and didn't use that excuse for them.  

9 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Always need to be what you think and your opinion doesn't it.   Can't have a conversation about the owner and what he thinks.  WE know we both disagree with him.. as do most.  Yes, it amy take a guy who the owner absolutely coveted to be his face of the franchise type of QB.   If that guy leaves ... because he wants to and then goes on to have success elsewhere, after you pay for that.   It's different than all the little things you bring up on your resume of how you would have done things different ..ie the " I called it back in 1977 when we drafted the other guy" type of stuff that every team does.   No team has had a coach for 14 years, then he goes on to win superbowl (s) elsewhere.  no team has ever traded a 28 year old franchise QB with a dead cap hit of $30 plus mil    ... no team has ever fired a coach 3 years after winning a SB.    

Other teams have all done those little " Ham is smarter than the rest of us type of little mistakes"    it's been my point. What extreme does it take on MAJOR stuff, for Lurie to wake up?  

Yet you just listed all these things and things are still the same.

"No team has had a coach for 14 years, then he goes on to win superbowl (s) elsewhere.  no team has ever traded a 28 year old franchise QB with a dead cap hit of $30 plus mil    ... no team has ever fired a coach 3 years after winning a SB. "

this is all happening and it’s staying the same. So what’s your point? 

  

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I wasn’t happy going into the season with Gerry as the stud second level player. Didn’t think Maddox was the answer outside at CB2.  Didn’t think Hargrave was the right FA signing. Not hindsight.

  But COVID is a legit excuse. Not to bring in old players like Rosie tried to reason. Having 14 different Oline combinations is a nightmare. Let’s be fair. Especially in an AR offense(Pedey whatever). Can’t really blame much of that except the Peters decision. Which was a terrible decision. Been b1tch1ng about hanging on to old players for the last couple years. I thought DJax being fragile and old...but still thought he’d give us more than that. Just half of season of contribution would have been huge. Never saw Wentz being soooo bad. He was terrible. Could make plenty of excuses(plenty are legit). But he wasn’t part of the solution. He was actively a part of the problem. Reagor has been a durable player. Got injured in camp. Then week two. It hurt. Sanders got hurt. Ertz was on a free fall. We needed to trade him....offers were there. Didn’t pull the trigger...then he got injured. That was Rosie being greedy. We love it when it works out for us. But it screwed us on that one. We could have that missing fourth round pick right now.

Ham... all small stuff ... around the league nobody cares about this... Lurie / Howie aren;t going to be viewed on these little things.   Stop with all that stuff.  We get it ... you are smart, move on.   Around the league this is a big WTF are they thinking making these type of moves... can really backfire to where they look stupid.  They aren't talking at the water cooler at ESPN HQ about Avante Maddox or Nate Gerry.  You follow

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Ham... all small stuff ... around the league nobody cares about this... Lurie / Howie aren;t going to be viewed on these little things.   Stop with all that stuff.  We get it ... you are smart, move on.   Around the league this is a big WTF are they thinking making these type of moves... can really backfire to where they look stupid.  They aren't talking at the water cooler at ESPN HQ about Avante Maddox or Nate Gerry.  You follow

Totally follow. Firing a AR and now he’s universally considered a brilliant top notch coach. Having to take the biggest cap hit to have a player play for somebody else. Firing your only SB winning coach after you forced his downfall and after the strangest asterisk season in NFL history. These are the huge things that will make Lurie change. Except...,they didn’t. Only Wentz having success elsewhere will turn the lightbulb on for Lurie. Sureeeeee

You’re right No Mas. Wentz wins ten games next year and Lurie will sell the team.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Yet you just listed all these things and things are still the same.

"No team has had a coach for 14 years, then he goes on to win superbowl (s) elsewhere.  no team has ever traded a 28 year old franchise QB with a dead cap hit of $30 plus mil    ... no team has ever fired a coach 3 years after winning a SB. "

this is all happening and it’s staying the same. So what’s your point? 

  

Again, forget about Ham knowing everything.... put yourself in someone else's mind ... knowing how they think  Stop talking about Nate Gerry... or the the small stuff that YOU see.   My point has been the whole time... right now, all these moved happened, we don't know the outcome.  Wentz could suck forever, Dog could never coach again, Hurts could be MVP and win 3 superbowls.   But the point is if things go wrong here and good for guys we let go. That should change things.  right now Lurie and Howie are neither wrong or right with these moves.  Just like when Chip was put in control... wasn't good or bad until stuff happened afterwards.... the results are what matters.   I think big time egg on the face is coming here. One that finally wakes Lurie up, because people will talk about this stuff ... not Nate Gerry or Avonte Maddox.  

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Totally follow. Firing a AR and now he’s universally considered a brilliant top notch coach. Having to take the biggest cap hit to have a player play for somebody else. Firing your only SB winning coach after you forced his downfall and after the strangest asterisk season in NFL history. These are the huge things that will make Lurie change. Except...,they didn’t. Only Wentz having success elsewhere will turn the lightbulb on for Lurie. Sureeeeee

But the results haven't come back yet from the moves made this last month?    That is the point.   People have eyebrows raised on these moves.  If it backfires.. should be effective.  They haven't backfired yet.   Lurie can say these were the right moves now.  

I’m preparing you now for the redemption song. They take a super stud at 6. Spin the unbelievable impossible trading of Wentz as their brilliance. My bar was set for a second round pick for him. Any more they did well. They might pull it off. What if they get a first for Wentz and pick another good player. Or heck a good player at 38. Hurts looks legit. He doesn’t have to look like an MVP. Just legit. Guys develop from their recent drafts. Guys come back from injury(Brooks, Lame...). Come out smelling like Roses!(pun intended)

1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So taking a SB winning team down to 4-11-1 isn’t enough?

We lost many games by 10 or less. Could this be attributed to the fact we had PS receivers and 14 O lines in 16 games? And the fact that Wentz was trying to play hero and forcing the ball? On top of that him missing wide open guys and taking sacks? . Of course you fire Ped, he is not an "asset" As far as I recall Gruden was the only COACH ever gotten/traded for draft picks. I could be wrong, but I don't recall anyone else. Therefore, by default Wentz is your "asset" and Ped is expendable. I think by the bye week Lurie knew both needed to go,but as Joe said,that little light over his head still hasn't gone off that HOWIE is this teams major problem

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I’m preparing you now for the redemption song. They take a super stud at 6. Spin the unbelievable impossible trading of Wentz as their brilliance. My bar was set for a second round pick for him. Any more they did well. They might pull it off. What if they get a first for Wentz and pick another good player. Or heck a good player at 38. Hurts looks legit. He doesn’t have to look like an MVP. Just legit. Guys develop from their recent drafts. Guys come back from injury(Brooks, Lame...). Come out smelling like Roses!(pun intended)

And nobody will care about all these details..... that is my point.   What will be talked about.... the Eagles got rid of a guy who had success elsewhere.  And the only thing that looks good is Hurts and the team winning.    Because if it were another team, we don't care about the details.  We say, " look at those idiots for getting rid of that guy, who is winning elsewhere, and they are not winning without him"    This goes over your head, because you get wrapped up in all the small details that nobody outside Eagles obsessed fans care about.  Lurie doesn't care about our opinions... if he looks bad around the league and in national media, then it matters.  

7 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Again, forget about Ham knowing everything.... put yourself in someone else's mind ... knowing how they think  Stop talking about Nate Gerry... or the the small stuff that YOU see.   My point has been the whole time... right now, all these moved happened, we don't know the outcome.  Wentz could suck forever, Dog could never coach again, Hurts could be MVP and win 3 superbowls.   But the point is if things go wrong here and good for guys we let go. That should change things.  right now Lurie and Howie are neither wrong or right with these moves.  Just like when Chip was put in control... wasn't good or bad until stuff happened afterwards.... the results are what matters.   I think big time egg on the face is coming here. One that finally wakes Lurie up, because people will talk about this stuff ... not Nate Gerry or Avonte Maddox.  

I call Bs. We don’t know the outcome of whether this is good or bad? Really! Paying a guy 30 mil to play for somebody else. That’s bad. He can suck there...it’s still bad. Firing your only SB winning coach three seasons later...is bad. Especially anyone realizing their role in his down fall. You’re acting like we need some crystal ball to see they screwed up. Who needs that? Lurie knows he screwed up. He knows Wentz is talented. Never been the question. Not sure why you think it’s so key?

9 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

But the results haven't come back yet from the moves made this last month?    That is the point.   People have eyebrows raised on these moves.  If it backfires.. should be effective.  They haven't backfired yet.   Lurie can say these were the right moves now.  

They have been in dictatorial control the whole time. It backfired. All over themselves. Seems like plenty to me. Enough that I would have no idea what will change Lurie. Just hire a puppet ...rinse and repeat. Spin the next bad news. Hopefully make enough good to counter.

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

We lost many games by 10 or less. Could this be attributed to the fact we had PS receivers and 14 O lines in 16 games? And the fact that Wentz was trying to play hero and forcing the ball? On top of that him missing wide open guys and taking sacks? . Of course you fire Ped, he is not an "asset" As far as I recall Gruden was the only COACH every gotten/traded for draft picks. I could be wrong, but I don't recall anyone else. Therefore, by default Wentz is your "asset" and Ped is expendable. I think by the bye week Lurie knew both needed to go,but as Joe said,that little light over his head still hasn't gone off that HOWIE is this teams major problem

Right, so I can't see why " wentz was the reason Dog was fired" idea still is there... especailly form a dude that knows football.  Wentz was out long before deciding to fire Doug.  His silence was the right way to go for both sides, knowing this.   it's why I was laughing at you guys wanting him to stay stuff.  The writing was already on the wall, he was gone, no need to say it for either side.  Should have been obvious from day 1.  Also, why would the team leak out anything other than Wentz/Doug relationship being strained, they don't want it to come out the player thinks they are idiots.  The masters of PR those Eagles.  

5 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Firing your only SB winning coach three seasons later

The SB winning coach and the 4-11 coach are the SAME GUY!!!! With the SAME QB!!!(sans the last few games Foles played in 2017)

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I call Bs. We don’t know the outcome of whether this is good or bad? Really! Paying a guy 30 mil to play for somebody else. That’s bad. He can suck there...it’s still bad. Firing your only SB winning coach three seasons later...is bad. Especially anyone realizing their role in his down fall. You’re acting like we need some crystal ball to see they screwed up. Who needs that? Lurie knows he screwed up. He knows Wentz is talented. Never been the question. Not sure why you think it’s so key?

Nothing is bad if your team improves.... you hated the dead money in 2017 .. .they won a SB.   Nobody talks about all the little BS that went on with New England, they just talk about the winning.     The results change things.  The move you do today, how does it effect tomorrow.  The past is already done.  This month's moves... nothing ever done before around the league... if it works, they look like geniuses... if not, they look like idiots.  

3 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

The SB winning coach and the 4-11 coach are the SAME GUY!!!!

So is the GM.   That's my point... this months moves are all about the statement that the owner picked the GM over the coach and QB.   He's all in now with Howie, no turning back.  I want Wentz to win MVP and a SB... and surprise no drama.... and see the reaction of Lurie/Howie.... then Doug can win a SB with a new team too... " what's up Howie and Jeff"    but you know... Avonta Maddox and Nate Gerry ... lol  

6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

And nobody will care about all these details..... that is my point.   What will be talked about.... the Eagles got rid of a guy who had success elsewhere.  And the only thing that looks good is Hurts and the team winning.    Because if it were another team, we don't care about the details.  We say, " look at those idiots for getting rid of that guy, who is winning elsewhere, and they are not winning without him"    This goes over your head, because you get wrapped up in all the small details that nobody outside Eagles obsessed fans care about.  Lurie doesn't care about our opinions... if he looks bad around the league and in national media, then it matters.  

Gotcha. It’s all about how Wentz plays  elsewhere. Which really isn’t very relevant. So I disagree. He’s talented. But he’s also been an issue here. He wants out. GMs hands are tied. Traded up for him. Paid him. Let him go over the coach head. Fired the coach. 
  But firing Rosie very much depends on how his players do going forward here. Reagor steps up. Very likely. Hurts plays well. Likely. Injured players come back to help the team. He hits on a stud in this draft while he has massive ammo. Very likely. We draft Chase...and you’ll be like Wentz who? Your suggesting Rosie gets fired after he takes a 4-11-1 dumpster fire to great improvement. I don’t see it. This was the moment to ax him. It all blew up in his face. He survived. All he has to do is make a few good decisions and have past decisions come out looking good. Draft Chase and have Dillard become a dominant LT while Hurts leads the team to a few more victories.(just one example of many possibilities) Job saved! Can things really be worse than now? This is everything blowing up in Rosie’s face. He’s still here. He will survive!

9 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Nothing is bad if your team improves.... you hated the dead money in 2017 .. .they won a SB.   Nobody talks about all the little BS that went on with New England, they just talk about the winning.     The results change things.  The move you do today, how does it effect tomorrow.  The past is already done.  This month's moves... nothing ever done before around the league... if it works, they look like geniuses... if not, they look like idiots.  

Won the SB with all that dead money. Now maybe you see the problem there. The dead money doesn’t kill you that season. It screws you going forward. Exactly my point then. Now maybe in hindsight you can see it.

8 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

He's all in now with Howie, no turning back

Yep,same problem I see

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Gotcha. It’s all about how Wentz plays  elsewhere. Which really isn’t very relevant. So I disagree. He’s talented. But he’s also been an issue here. He wants out. GMs hands are tied. Traded up for him. Paid him. Let him go over the coach head. Fired the coach. 
  But firing Rosie very much depends on how his players do going forward here. Reagor steps up. Very likely. Hurts plays well. Likely. Injured players come back to help the team. He hits on a stud in this draft while he has massive ammo. Very likely. We draft Chase...and you’ll be like Wentz who? Your suggesting Rosie gets fired after he takes a 4-11-1 dumpster fire to great improvement. I don’t see it. This was the moment to ax him. It all blew up in his face. He survived. All he has to do is make a few good decisions and have past decisions come out looking good. Draft Chase and have Dillard become a dominant LT while Hurts leads the team to a few more victories.(just one example of many possibilities) Job saved! Can things really be worse than now? This is everything blowing up in Rosie’s face. He’s still here. He will survive!

Nobody will talk about all these little moves.   Wentz wins a SB and the Eagles don't... nobody cares avout hitting draft picks and Nate Gerry.  Nobody talks about all the little moves New England made over the years... they talk about the coach and the QB winning.   If the have success elsewhere and we don't here... that makes them look bad.  The owner should ask himself what is the deal.  

8 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So is the GM.   That's my point... this months moves are all about the statement that the owner picked the GM over the coach and QB.   He's all in now with Howie, no turning back.  I want Wentz to win MVP and a SB... and surprise no drama.... and see the reaction of Lurie/Howie.... then Doug can win a SB with a new team too... " what's up Howie and Jeff"    but you know... Avonta Maddox and Nate Gerry ... lol  

He didn’t pick Rosie over Wentz. I don’t see that

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Yep,same problem I see

It's not a problem .... YET.    I won't write a paragraph about 100 moves the GM could make that would change things... i'll simply say, watch who wins.   then we may see a problem.