So say we drafted first and took Lawrence. You're going to start Hurts because he has 4 games in ? That's the new standard here?

9 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I opened a can of worms here that have ended up all over the floor.

The discussion isn't whether the Colts are a better spot head to head. It's whether or not Wentz will be in a better spot staying here or being traded there for a first round pick plus whatever else it takes.

Their fans don't want him for that price, and he will have to play really well to justify the trade, putting more pressure on himself, which he hasn't handled great up to now.

If he gets traded to them, the expectation is winning playoff games, something he has never done, whereas here it will be likely be a winning record, which he has.

LOL I understood it

IDK I am trying to figure out how Hurts is the new Wentz after 4 games lol

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

So say we drafted first and took Lawrence. You're going to start Hurts because he has 4 games in ? That's the new standard here?

Dude... I think you are missing the point... it;s not us... The Eagles drafted the next Russell Wilson ... he is Howie's boy.   He will be the QB for him, the last one that he brings in to succeed, otherwise see ya to Howie.   You make perfect sense on your side... but look at what's going on.   Hurts is the guy, he owns the locker room, it's his team.  

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Dude... I think you are missing the point... it;s not us... The Eagles drafted the next Russell Wilson ... he is Howie's boy.   He will be the QB for him, the last one that he brings in to succeed, otherwise see ya to Howie.   You make perfect sense on your side... but look at what's going on.   Hurts is the guy, he owns the locker room, it's his team.  

OK if that's "how it is" then we better draft 5 O line guys, because he's gonna need it LOL. IDK can we just draft "alabama? like the whole team?

11 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I opened a can of worms here that have ended up all over the floor.

The discussion isn't whether the Colts are a better spot head to head. It's whether or not Wentz will be in a better spot staying here or being traded there for a first round pick plus whatever else it takes.

Their fans don't want him for that price, and he will have to play really well to justify the trade, putting more pressure on himself, which he hasn't handled great up to now.

If he gets traded to them, the expectation is winning playoff games, something he has never done, whereas here it will be likely be a winning record, which he has.

I get what you are saying .... you think its better to have low expectations..   I'm saying a pro athlete that is wired to be a competitor and is used to winning... doesn't think that way.   Nor do really any successful people.  You are simply looking at it from the soap opera talk show type of approval.  2 different worlds.  

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

OK if that's "how it is" then we better draft 5 O line guys, because he's gonna need it LOL

Nah... he can run away ... remember the OL wasn't as bad because Wentz took too many sacks playing football and trying to throw the ball to a teammate.   In reality, once the first guy is covered, the QB should run ... this way the OL doesn't have a negative statistic against them.  

15 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I opened a can of worms here that have ended up all over the floor.

The discussion isn't whether the Colts are a better spot head to head. It's whether or not Wentz will be in a better spot staying here or being traded there for a first round pick plus whatever else it takes.

Their fans don't want him for that price, and he will have to play really well to justify the trade, putting more pressure on himself, which he hasn't handled great up to now.

If he gets traded to them, the expectation is winning playoff games, something he has never done, whereas here it will be likely be a winning record, which he has.

LOL no,see you can blame me for ALL this because I was the guy who first suggested we draft a QB if we traded Wentz,so you are "off the hook"

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Nah... he can run away ... remember the OL wasn't as bad because Wentz took too many sacks playing football and trying to throw the ball to a teammate.   In reality, once the first guy is covered, the QB should run ... this way the OL doesn't have a negative statistic against them.  

Silly me 🤣 Welp ,that's awesome to know we have the next Russell Wilson. I wasn't aware

11 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/eagles/news/eagles-appear-all-in-on-jalen-hurts-as-the-starting-qb-this-season?fbclid=IwAR0jb3h6tVBaZS2zW4UhffV-knJLJw8jWxqHgjfDoEoX3nwxYS0a5fkr

What do you think about this one.... why I didn't follow you with blaming Wentz for Doug getting fired?   Doug, Duce and Wentz gone... seems all have one guy as their main issue, not sure why it's hard to see.  Especially during the season, you could tell Doug isn't a fan of the read option college gimmick style.  

I think this story got it half right. Everybody assumed Pedey was a get rid of Wentz and start Hurts guy. But what I heard was Pedey wanted his voice being the only one in the QB room. So he could make Wentz more coachable by understanding who’s in charge. So I think he wanted both QBs back with Wentz as the starter. Have a trusted guy like Press still being the ‘Wentz Handler.’ Wentz, Taylor, Rosie and Lurie would all have to understand its Pedey’s way or the highway. Then Wentz can run his plays and listen or he’ll be benched.

   The organization firing Pedey because he wanted to fix Wentz and they wanted Hurts I don’t buy. I believe the reports of them telling potential HC hires it was a fix Wentz mission. But also have a quality young backup. Wentz showed that after all that he still wouldn’t come back.

13 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

That's 2 years away. Can we get some competition in here? "get a guy to learn". Is Hurts all seasoned after 4.5 "average" games?

But would we be a QB Factory if we did what I stated? I think we would be considered exactly that. That was their plan.

16 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I opened a can of worms here that have ended up all over the floor.

The discussion isn't whether the Colts are a better spot head to head. It's whether or not Wentz will be in a better spot staying here or being traded there for a first round pick plus whatever else it takes.

Their fans don't want him for that price, and he will have to play really well to justify the trade, putting more pressure on himself, which he hasn't handled great up to now.

If he gets traded to them, the expectation is winning playoff games, something he has never done, whereas here it will be likely be a winning record, which he has.

If you come out of college where you won 5 national titles... played at an MVP level, got hurt week 13 and then saw your team win a SB ... 3 years you watch your team get worse.   What's important to you ... trying to win a SB, or play to lower expectations so you get approval of fans and media as " he's not that bad"  ?    And combine that with your big thing being .. " audience of one"    What do you think your goal would be?    Guarantee you, he don't care what guys behind a keyboard think, he puts in the work, takes the hits from 300 lb guys to try to win a Superbowl, not for anything else.  

20 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/eagles/news/eagles-appear-all-in-on-jalen-hurts-as-the-starting-qb-this-season?fbclid=IwAR0jb3h6tVBaZS2zW4UhffV-knJLJw8jWxqHgjfDoEoX3nwxYS0a5fkr

What do you think about this one.... why I didn't follow you with blaming Wentz for Doug getting fired?   Doug, Duce and Wentz gone... seems all have one guy as their main issue, not sure why it's hard to see.  Especially during the season, you could tell Doug isn't a fan of the read option college gimmick style.  

IDK bro,this article says alot and says nothing at the same time. .Like we traded Bradford to move up to get Wentz(like we can't do that again?) Then it says hurts is the guy(after 4 games which I find super AMAZING!!) SO really this covers alot of options and covers all the bases so he can say "see I told you" lol  

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

But would we be a QB Factory if we did what I stated? I think we would be considered exactly that. That was their plan.

IDk we can get 5 QB's and ruin them ,but we are going to be a QB factory with 1 QB? IDK how that works? Like opening a car assembly plant to make 1 car 

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

But would we be a QB Factory if we did what I stated? I think we would be considered exactly that. That was their plan.

We would be a QB factory if we could draft them, pay them... then trade them to another team to win.    That's a factory to me... when you produce something to sell, not for use yourself.  I always assume why Penn State was a LB factory was because they produced LBs that went on to play well in the NFL?   Similar to other schools at other positions.   I don't want to be that... I'll take one guy that plays well for me for 15 years without the other stuff.   If I think I have that guy, I make sure he gets OL and weapons.  And he keeps having them... like the Saints or Green Bay, or with Brady having Moss, Welker, Edlemen, Gronk since 2007.   I don't reach for rookies unless it's a #2 WR, and I never let my OL get to 2020 Eagles level.  I would invest in that guy... by investing in teammates.  I would coddle that guy... by coddling him with good teammates.   The backup I would make sure is a backup, similar style to my guy this way no BS.  

Well no matter, I want Brady White as a UDFA QB. he can compete with Hurts right NOW,but man those 4 games from Hurts means he has NO shot. IDK I suppose Joe would know that it's Hurts and thats the end of it, which I find sad really

IDK we had Suds for a long time and he sucks, so if that's our factory, we're going BK year 1, then we can have a PRE fire sale

6 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

IDK bro,this article says alot and says nothing at the same time. .Like we traded Bradford to move up to get Wentz(like we can't do that again?) Then it says hurts is the guy(after 4 games which I find super AMAZING!!) SO really this covers alot of options and covers all the bases so he can say "see I told you" lol  

So.. again, its not about what you are saying about drafting a QB... this was Ham and I discussing Wentz and Doug, He basically was saying Wentz wanted Doug fired.  I was saying both guys had issues with Howie.     This article basically says that Hurts was Howie's guy, which I thought was obvious how Doug refused to want to put in Hurts and really didn't seem to like running that running QB offense.   Howie is the guy behind all the mess... and the PR making Wentz out to be this bad human... it serves Howie to get everyone on board with it.  Similar to the BS about DeSean being in a gang when we got rid of him the first time.    I think Doug wanted out, wanted to do things his way... I think Doug getting fired only made Wentz want to be here less.  I think both guys were like... we won a SB, we won the division last year with the crap you gave us... you gave us more crap and now you want to tell us who to hire as coaches and which QB to play.   Ham seemed to think it was Wentz wanting Doug out or something.  

35 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/eagles/news/eagles-appear-all-in-on-jalen-hurts-as-the-starting-qb-this-season?fbclid=IwAR0jb3h6tVBaZS2zW4UhffV-knJLJw8jWxqHgjfDoEoX3nwxYS0a5fkr

What do you think about this one.... why I didn't follow you with blaming Wentz for Doug getting fired?   Doug, Duce and Wentz gone... seems all have one guy as their main issue, not sure why it's hard to see.  Especially during the season, you could tell Doug isn't a fan of the read option college gimmick style.  

But the real problem remains, doesn't it.

14 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

But would we be a QB Factory if we did what I stated? I think we would be considered exactly that. That was their plan.

Well Ham that has been my point, which Joe has pointed out is a pointless point. I wanted Hurts and 1 decent round 1 QB pick .I also want a UDFA QB to replace Suds,who showed me enough to know that ANY UDFA QB is better. 3 rook QB's, if you want a BU vet, fine(don't sell the farm). Now you have a start on a 'factory" but see it's all; moot cause Joe said "it's Hurts and thats the end of it"

10 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

If you come out of college where you won 5 national titles... played at an MVP level, got hurt week 13 and then saw your team win a SB ... 3 years you watch your team get worse.   What's important to you ... trying to win a SB, or play to lower expectations so you get approval of fans and media as " he's not that bad"  ?    And combine that with your big thing being .. " audience of one"    What do you think your goal would be?    Guarantee you, he don't care what guys behind a keyboard think, he puts in the work, takes the hits from 300 lb guys to try to win a Superbowl, not for anything else.  

Just FYI, winning titles at ND State isn't exactly beating Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. As far as what's important to him, he signed the contract, so at some point the $128 million was important.

And he was outplayed by Hurts this year. Plain and simple, he looked worse than a second round rookie by any metric. His mechanics were bad, his decisions were bad and the oline was begging the coach to make a switch because he was making their job harder.

So if he wants to win a Super Bowl, he has a lot to fix before he's outdueling Rodgers, Brady and Mahomes.

I get that people are ready to leap off the ledge, and want Lurie to hire a new GM who will never draft a bad player or sign a bad contract, and this Wentz trade talk is driving everyone even more insane than usual, but my only point is that things aren;t going to get easier for Wentz if he's traded. Fans are thinking his value is negative right now, namely that a team should get draft picks for putting him on the roster. So if a team trades for him and he continues to struggle, how is that going to work out for him.

I think you are drastically underestimating the impact the mental side of the game can have on pro athletes. Once they lose confidence, it's tough to get it back.  

4 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

IDK we had Suds for a long time and he sucks, so if that's our factory, we're going BK year 1, then we can have a PRE fire sale

Like I gotta ask..... the idiot says this " QB factory" thing ... nobody else in the world thinks this way, in fact he gets ripped all the time for saying it... he even said he regrets saying it, but it was in obvious defense at the press conference after making the pick, he was shocked at how everyone thought he was an idiot.     Yet you keep talking about QB factory.  Why?   I get it that you would draft a top QB if he was there... it makes the most sense to me because I don't think Hurts type wins... there is only one Russell Wilson, getting a guy that looks like him and interviews well doesn't mean anything.    But Howie needs that being the smart guy in the room... winning like 2017 isn't satisfactory to him... thats where you get QB factory.... words of an idiot trying to be smartest guy in the room... but it's irrelevant, nobody else thinks that.  

4 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So.. again, its not about what you are saying about drafting a QB... this was Ham and I discussing Wentz and Doug, He basically was saying Wentz wanted Doug fired.  I was saying both guys had issues with Howie.     This article basically says that Hurts was Howie's guy, which I thought was obvious how Doug refused to want to put in Hurts and really didn't seem to like running that running QB offense.   Howie is the guy behind all the mess... and the PR making Wentz out to be this bad human... it serves Howie to get everyone on board with it.  Similar to the BS about DeSean being in a gang when we got rid of him the first time.    I think Doug wanted out, wanted to do things his way... I think Doug getting fired only made Wentz want to be here less.  I think both guys were like... we won a SB, we won the division last year with the crap you gave us... you gave us more crap and now you want to tell us who to hire as coaches and which QB to play.   Ham seemed to think it was Wentz wanting Doug out or something.  

OK,well if I am Howie, it would be wise to CMA if Hurts doesn't pan by selecting another QB in this draft. Just saying thats' what I would do if I wanted to keep my job, because I kinda win either way. Like Wentz, if Hurts fails, then SEE I got another guy for us. If he succeeds he can say See, I got us a BU lol. Actually I will admit I wanted Wentz benched in game 4(if you're keeping track). Not because I thought Hurts was better,but sometimes those "wake up calls" can have an effect,but ped never did it until the season was history

4 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Like I gotta ask..... the idiot says this " QB factory" thing ... nobody else in the world thinks this way, in fact he gets ripped all the time for saying it... he even said he regrets saying it, but it was in obvious defense at the press conference after making the pick, he was shocked at how everyone thought he was an idiot.     Yet you keep talking about QB factory.  Why?   I get it that you would draft a top QB if he was there... it makes the most sense to me because I don't think Hurts type wins... there is only one Russell Wilson, getting a guy that looks like him and interviews well doesn't mean anything.    But Howie needs that being the smart guy in the room... winning like 2017 isn't satisfactory to him... thats where you get QB factory.... words of an idiot trying to be smartest guy in the room... but it's irrelevant, nobody else thinks that.  

Ham keeps mentioning it,so I responded

18 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

IDk we can get 5 QB's and ruin them ,but we are going to be a QB factory with 1 QB? IDK how that works? Like opening a car assembly plant to make 1 car 

I’ll slow down then.

First: Trade Wentz that we drafted, developed and then signed.

Second: play Hurts and resign him in three more seasons. 
 

Third: Draft a developmental QB this year. And..,ugh...develop him.

Fourth: trade Hurts or 2020 rookie by the time HIS contract comes do. Four more years.

This would be a QB factory blueprint plan, no?