I really think everyone is underestimating the changes on defense. Big shift taking place. Going to look fairly different than what we’ve been used to.

   Loaded up on DT. Gotta get that pressure up the gut. Not much at LB. But have two Joker LB Rushers in Ostman and Avery to add to the mix. Relying on Barnett and Graham to have career seasons. 
    Backend coverage is completely shifting. Our predictable coverage style I believe changes. More roaming of coverage per individual matchups. Probably utilizing more deep S usage. Basically, giving up all those big plays can’t happen again. That has...and will be addressed.
   

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1274780485328175109?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-24275455012681981382.ampproject.net%2F2006112352001%2Fframe.html

Jamal Adams is a very good player. But with Brooks going down for the year I think Joe Thuney would be the wiser move. Get an elite G from the Pats in here long term in his prime. 

Really excited to see Michael Warren. He really is the perfect complimentary back to Sanders and Scott. Seemed like he ran for over a 100 yards in every game I saw. Great yards per carry. He seemingly ticked off 8 yards every carry. First guy doesn’t bring him down ever. Very much a North South runner. He isn’t looking to bust it outside around the edge. He’s a TD vulture. Just can’t be stopped from entering the endzone. Rare I’d go this far with an undrafted guy. But I’ve already penciled him in as the third RB. I think he’s just fine in passing downs too...with some work and growth. He caught passes just fine. So he has the ability. He needs to refine his route running a bit. Though he really only needs three or four routes his rookie season to be effective in that phase anyway. So it really just comes down to pass protection. He’s a bit green there. Probably comparable to Sanders was as a rook in that area. Though he’s a more physical type player. So Duce can teach him the proper techniques and he will thrive at it. Really just comes down to the mental aspects and learning the Oline blocking responsibilities which dictates the RB job(of who he’s responsible for).

On 6/20/2020 at 2:24 PM, Bleedinggreen93 said:

I just look at Adams as an very good borderline elite S guys like that don’t become free very often so I’d be all for him.... We can say we added Mills and Parker whoever else but come on they don’t compare to the caliber player Adams is. 
 

As for Mills going outside I fine with it especially if we move around pieces for matchups don’t think we have to lock mills at just S or just CB... Same with a guy like Maddox....I’m fine with us moving guys around to get the best matchups 

I think it comes down to allotment of money. Changed to throwing money at Slay instead of S. Got a bunch of cheap hybrid Corners to play aspects of the S job now(including the drafting of Wallace). Defense is going to look very different because of this. Buying S was a good idea back when this coaching staff took over. They were underpaid. Really seemed like good value. But the S market got pretty jacked up and isn’t the same good bargain deal it was then.

Really kind of gone to undersized guys on defense. Gets us faster because they have speed. But undersized and converted S play LB for us. Corners playing S.

49 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Really excited to see Michael Warren. He really is the perfect complimentary back to Sanders and Scott. Seemed like he ran for over a 100 yards in every game I saw. Great yards per carry. He seemingly ticked off 8 yards every carry. First guy doesn’t bring him down ever. Very much a North South runner. He isn’t looking to bust it outside around the edge. He’s a TD vulture. Just can’t be stopped from entering the endzone. Rare I’d go this far with an undrafted guy. But I’ve already penciled him in as the third RB. I think he’s just fine in passing downs too...with some work and growth. He caught passes just fine. So he has the ability. He needs to refine his route running a bit. Though he really only needs three or four routes his rookie season to be effective in that phase anyway. So it really just comes down to pass protection. He’s a bit green there. Probably comparable to Sanders was as a rook in that area. Though he’s a more physical type player. So Duce can teach him the proper techniques and he will thrive at it. Really just comes down to the mental aspects and learning the Oline blocking responsibilities which dictates the RB job(of who he’s responsible for).

I think Holyfield is a little better than he is, but either one will be fine as a RB3. I don't see the need to spend money on a vet.

I would note that Warren looked really good against Temple, in part because our sixth round pick missed so many tackles in the game. So it's never a good sign when an UDFA outperforms a draft pick. I don't think Bradley makes the team.

The two UDFAs I like are TE Noah Togiai, who I think would have been a sixth round pick had he not had a lot of injuries, and WR Manasseh Bailey, who is a lot like Watkins except a little bigger. I also like Elijah Riley as a safety prospect. There are a lot of guys in front of him, but the team has to make decisions on Mills and Parks next year, and if Riley and Wallace look good, they probably don't need to bring either guy back unless they shine this year (and if they do, we may not be able to afford them.)  

1 hour ago, jsb235 said:

I think Holyfield is a little better than he is, but either one will be fine as a RB3. I don't see the need to spend money on a vet.

I would note that Warren looked really good against Temple, in part because our sixth round pick missed so many tackles in the game. So it's never a good sign when an UDFA outperforms a draft pick. I don't think Bradley makes the team.

The two UDFAs I like are TE Noah Togiai, who I think would have been a sixth round pick had he not had a lot of injuries, and WR Manasseh Bailey, who is a lot like Watkins except a little bigger. I also like Elijah Riley as a safety prospect. There are a lot of guys in front of him, but the team has to make decisions on Mills and Parks next year, and if Riley and Wallace look good, they probably don't need to bring either guy back unless they shine this year (and if they do, we may not be able to afford them.)  

     Holyfield has issues. I’m not much of a fan of his. 
     Warren has made everybody look bad tackling. That was my point. I believe Bradley, our fifth round pick, is ahead of Taylor, our third round pick....right now. Taylor is a smart kid who loves football and is the better overall prospect, based on potential. I think Flajole believes he  can coach him up with big upside, fairly quickly. But he isn’t ready yet. Bradley seems limited. Doesn’t have huge upside but could potentially contribute his rookie season. Pretty weird an unusual situation. But I have the fifth rounder as the better option year one, over the third rounder. Not sure how it all plays out though. How much do they allow our third rounder to make mistakes and grow....ON THE FIELD...his rookie season?
  

Of coarse I’m probably the biggest fan of Singleton around here. I like his playing style and demeanor. He makes those skill players feel it when he gets a hold of them. Pretty much just think he needs to get his shot on gamedays and he will prove himself. He has the experience to thrive.  Don’t think you can find a hungrier player. 
   I also really like Edwards. I think his fans are growing fairly quickly now though after seeing his contributions as a rookie. Clearly looks like a starter at this point. Very impressive for an undrafted player entering year two.

1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said:

 How much do they allow our third rounder to make mistakes and grow....ON THE FIELD...his rookie season? 

With Taylor, the bigger issue is where do they see him playing. In college he was more of a safety than a LB, so he essentially played the position that we used Malcolm Jenkins in last year. If they see him as that kind of player, I think he can get on the field pretty quickly because he did a lot of the same things in college, and I could see him splitting time with Mills and Parks.

If they see him as a possible replacement for Gerry, I don't think he will see the field much at all, since if Gerry gets hurt, they would probably stick Duke Riley in there. The fact that he didn't play much at all as a true LB is going to put him pretty far behind.

I love Edwards as well and see him as a huge upgrade over Bradham. If Gerry learns to tackle and shed blocks a little better, I think they have two decent players. As far as Singleton, he seems like a guy who is considered to be just not quite good enough. He's not young, so I don't know how much better he can get. But his ceiling for us seems to be backup/special teams guy.

I hope I am wrong about Bradley. He certainly has the athletic traits to be a good LB.

On our defense, we needed upgrades at both corner and both linebacker spots. I think Slay and Edwards are immediate upgrades over Darby and Bradham. Maddox/Jones/whomever should be an upgrade over Rasul/Mills. So the only real question marks are whether Gerry can get better and how we will replace Jenkins.

JSB, I think you are hitting at some of the keys of what are we looking at getting out of Taylor. When I argued against drafting LSU Jefferson it was because he was schemed open too much. Getting motion and matchups vs S and LB. We utilize this on offense plenty ourselves. The OLD 4-3 defense we aren’t playing much anymore. There is plenty of reason for that. I’ve been calling it the Passing Era of the NFL for what seems like a very long time now. But it still seems to be growing in usage. TE position has launched into mega usage. So you need guys who can deal with all of this. So we need a LB that can jam a TE or Slot WR and still cover him on a crossing route. Crossing routes and natural picks are huge playcalls seemingly utilized endlessly across the league. Taylor seems suited to deal with this. Plus we even see TE being moved out and isolated out wide on a LB by scheme. We sure have used Ertz in this way. Taylor could be a fair option in that scenario. All this is with growth and Taylor reaching his potential. It’s going to take time for him in my estimation. I see him as a core ST to start his career mostly. Because a LB also needs play recognition and instincts. Not seeing Taylor ready to check those boxes right now. A LB has to deal with big old Oline guys attacking the second level. I don’t see him ready for that either. 
  When we used 4-3 we could have a guy at WLB and protect him to run free to the ball. But we have our Dline mostly penetrating. They aren’t tying guys up to protect our second level defenders. Essentially what two gaping 3-4 Dline do. That’s not Schwartz D.

I left out the covering RBs part of the job. Taylor seems capable in that area very much also.

In the run game: Chasing from the backside I like Taylor. Holding his ground and shedding blocks when they come right at him....uh oh. Not even thinking he has the football IQ to recognize it coming to avoid the blocks. 
   Smart athletic willing hard working raw piece of clay to be molded is how I see Taylor. A project. How long that takes Flajole would be the big question.

18 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I think it comes down to allotment of money. Changed to throwing money at Slay instead of S. Got a bunch of cheap hybrid Corners to play aspects of the S job now(including the drafting of Wallace). Defense is going to look very different because of this. Buying S was a good idea back when this coaching staff took over. They were underpaid. Really seemed like good value. But the S market got pretty jacked up and isn’t the same good bargain deal it was then.

If we can get an elite player At Adams age I say go for it but just me... As for Thuney don’t see it sure would address Brooks this year but what happens next year when Brooks is healthy not only are you giving up picks for him you have to invest money to keep him... Image Thuney going to command somewhere in the top G money range as well to extend 

9 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

How long that takes Flajole would be the big question.

He has seemed to get the best out of the LBs he has been given so far and seems as though Taylor is vastly superior athlete to anyone he has had previously. All players need work it’s just putting them in the best positions to succeed early on while they develop 

My guess is Edwards/Gerry are the primary 2 LBs will get most of the snaps as for 3rd Lb on the rare occasions we use them finding creative ways to use Taylor could be an option gets a few reps here and there and not getting overly exposed 

4 hours ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

If we can get an elite player At Adams age I say go for it but just me... As for Thuney don’t see it sure would address Brooks this year but what happens next year when Brooks is healthy not only are you giving up picks for him you have to invest money to keep him... Image Thuney going to command somewhere in the top G money range as well to extend 

Adams reportedly wants 20 mil a season. Can’t swing that for a S. I don’t see Thuney as just a one year option. Seumalo isn’t some super blockbuster G. Playing Thuney and Brooks together in 2021 and forward I have no problem with. What are the risks of having a porous Oline this year? Could be catastrophic. I’ve been all in on Wentz since before we drafted him. Heck I was the guy saying you trade all the way up for him. But even I can’t deny that a serious injury to Wentz this season has to shake the beliefs of him being Franchise worthy. Not too mention I want to be able run the ball all over our opponents. The left side of the Oline is shaky already. Is Dillard ready? I think so but it’s clearly just speculation at this point. Seumalo is serviceable. But even that was being next to a HOFer. Does he take a step down in play not having Peters next to him this year? Most logic would suggest... probably. Kelce is in the twilight of his career. And now Brooks is out. And I like Pryor. He showed well in his limited time last season. But you need depth. Was feeling much better with him as a swing backup. Even still I was suggesting picking up or more like drafting a G. Can Opeta or one of the rooks step up as a quality backup by midseason? {flips coin} I don’t know!

   Then there is the obvious of how well can Brooks recover and come back from this Achilles injury? Just injured his other Achilles two years ago. And injured his shoulder last year. All this on top of his mental health and depression. That’s without bringing up his monster salary.

4 hours ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

He has seemed to get the best out of the LBs he has been given so far and seems as though Taylor is vastly superior athlete to anyone he has had previously. All players need work it’s just putting them in the best positions to succeed early on while they develop 

I agree with this. It’s just that Taylor is especially Green. And we are looking at a truncated offseason. I think Flajole wanted him.... and can get him there....but hard for me to be more positive than it taking two or three seasons though. Looks to be all based on potential more than NFL readiness. Core ST contributor right away at least.

3 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Adams reportedly wants 20 mil a season. Can’t swing that for a S. I don’t see Thuney as just a one year option. Seumalo isn’t some super blockbuster G. Playing Thuney and Brooks together in 2021 and forward I have no problem with. What are the risks of having a porous Oline this year? Could be catastrophic. I’ve been all in on Wentz since before we drafted him. Heck I was the guy saying you trade all the way up for him. But even I can’t deny that a serious injury to Wentz this season has to shake the beliefs of him being Franchise worthy. Not too mention I want to be able run the ball all over our opponents. The left side of the Oline is shaky already. Is Dillard ready? I think so but it’s clearly just speculation at this point. Seumalo is serviceable. But even that was being next to a HOFer. Does he take a step down in play not having Peters next to him this year? Most logic would suggest... probably. Kelce is in the twilight of his career. And now Brooks is out. And I like Pryor. He showed well in his limited time last season. But you need depth. Was feeling much better with him as a swing backup. Even still I was suggesting picking up or more like drafting a G. Can Opeta or one of the rooks step up as a quality backup by midseason? {flips coin} I don’t know!

   Then there is the obvious of how well can Brooks recover and come back from this Achilles injury? Just injured his other Achilles two years ago. And injured his shoulder last year. All this on top of his mental health and depression. That’s without bringing up his monster salary.

And Brooks came back what many said was early and dominated not worried about him returning to form.... And again your paying Brooks top G money your paying Semaulo a decent amount now you want to go and trade for another G and pay top dollar for him???? Idk if we can’t swing paying for a S at a weak area of the team but can invest heavy at another G so 14-15m for Brooks(think Brooks contract spikes up to 17m cap hit soon also not sure if it is 21 or 22 though) then another 14-16m for Thuney along with what 5-6m for Semaulo.

 

 

Deebo Samuel broke his foot. Out for four months. We play Santa Clara week four. So he looks iffy to play this game.

4 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

And Brooks came back what many said was early and dominated not worried about him returning to form.... And again your paying Brooks top G money your paying Semaulo a decent amount now you want to go and trade for another G and pay top dollar for him???? Idk if we can’t swing paying for a S at a weak area of the team but can invest heavy at another G so 14-15m for Brooks(think Brooks contract spikes up to 17m cap hit soon also not sure if it is 21 or 22 though) then another 14-16m for Thuney along with what 5-6m for Semaulo.

 

 

I have no problem with Seumalo becoming the backup at G and C. But Seumalo would be a starter this year. Thuney would be the starter this year. Does Kelce come back in 2021? Probably not in 2022 even if so. So Seumalo was projected to take over at C. So we need a starting G in 2021 or 2022 anyway. Thuney would be ideal if it could happen. Need a G this year and then need one next year also....or 2022 at the least.

  Can’t play games with protecting Wentz. Too much at stake. Him having so much of an injury history already makes it all the more problematic.

5 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I have no problem with Seumalo becoming the backup at G and C. But Seumalo would be a starter this year. Thuney would be the starter this year. Does Kelce come back in 2021? Probably not in 2022 even if so. So Seumalo was projected to take over at C. So we need a starting G in 2021 or 2022 anyway. Thuney would be ideal if it could happen. Need a G this year and then need one next year also....or 2022 at the least.

  Can’t play games with protecting Wentz. Too much at stake. Him having so much of an injury history already makes it all the more problematic.

I don't think they will spend any money on guard when Pryor seems to be okay and they have some prospects in Opeta, Herbig and Driscoll. The biggest difference between Pryor and Brooks is that Pryor can't get out and block in space like Brooks could, but as far as keeping Wentz safe there isn't a huge dropoff.

8 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I have no problem with Seumalo becoming the backup at G and C. But Seumalo would be a starter this year. Thuney would be the starter this year. Does Kelce come back in 2021? Probably not in 2022 even if so. So Seumalo was projected to take over at C. So we need a starting G in 2021 or 2022 anyway. Thuney would be ideal if it could happen. Need a G this year and then need one next year also....or 2022 at the least.

  Can’t play games with protecting Wentz. Too much at stake. Him having so much of an injury history already makes it all the more problematic.

That assuming Kielce retires and if he doesn’t then you have 10-12m for Kelce...15m plus for both Gs Brooks/ Thuney those 3 alone could be looking at what north of 40m 

Now add another 6m for Semaulo as a backup 

Damn near 50m on the interior OL really only 4 guys and didn’t even add in Lane yet.

Idk we we can’t swing Adams no way we could swing Thuney either is my point

Personally speaking I believe Adams is the far better investment short and long term for this team.... Vastly improving a major weakness on the team with a young elite player no don’t see him getting 20m reports can say whatever they want he might become the highest paid S so 15-16m but if you can pay that for again another G why not a S????

I have a lot more faith in our young OL then a do at our S position