3 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Name our great corner(s) over the last ten years.

Asante Samuels, Sheldon Brown I mean they were not scrubs... I mean Darby and Mills were more the solid enough in 2017 to win a SB along with Patrick Robinson.

29 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Asante Samuels, Sheldon Brown I mean they were not scrubs... I mean Darby and Mills were more the solid enough in 2017 to win a SB along with Patrick Robinson.

Sheldon Brown was before Graham. Asante Samuel was here though. That’s the only legit corner that we’ve had while Graham has been here all this time. Unfortunately it was for Graham’s rookie season only. So Graham should have been able to do more his rookie year. I’ll give you that ONE season. You reaching for Darby and Mills feels pathetic.

The only thing I would add to the Graham conversation is that he has consistently rushed from the right side rather than the left, so it is easier for the QB to see him coming. This is a double-edged sword since it also means he is often going against a weaker tackle, but in theory it is a lot harder for him to put up big sack numbers. So I think with him it is legit to cite pressures as a key metric to judge his performance.

Also, we should be happy he doesn't put up big sack numbers. Big sack numbers lead to big contracts. Would you rather pay Lawrence $21 million a year or Graham $13 million a year? Over the last three years Lawrence has averaged two more sacks a season than Graham. $8 million seems like an awfully lot to pay for one sack every eight games.

 

11 hours ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

can go down a list of WRs that are at best 6ft and under plenty of options why the size thing is overblown if the issues are with his actual coverage ability fine but his size nah just a weak excuse 

Ok no worries. Let's ignore what all of the analysts are saying. Sure thing.

8 hours ago, Trini said:

I don't think Maddox size is an issue he has played with that size all his life, with Big Tall guys all believing I can Moss the little guy. Maddox is quick, fast  and ultra competitive. Maddox has life experience winning against Bigger competition. It in those 25%of cases that I prefer a taller CB with hops on the outside.

He's not looked convincing on the outside though. 

7 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

He's not looked convincing on the outside though. 

The one thing I would note is that Maddox was asked to play a lot of zone coverage when he was an outside corner, which doesn't play to his strengths. With the addition of Slay, he should be playing a lot more man, which he should be very good at.

1 hour ago, jsb235 said:

The one thing I would note is that Maddox was asked to play a lot of zone coverage when he was an outside corner, which doesn't play to his strengths. With the addition of Slay, he should be playing a lot more man, which he should be very good at.

Hopefully he doesn't get gun shy due to his injury last year.

5 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

Hopefully he doesn't get gun shy due to his injury last year.

There's a report that he was begging to go back into the game immediately after he took the big hit from Sendejo, so I wouldn't worry about him being gun shy.

That's the moment Schwartz fell in love with him.

 

3 hours ago, jsb235 said:

The one thing I would note is that Maddox was asked to play a lot of zone coverage when he was an outside corner, which doesn't play to his strengths. With the addition of Slay, he should be playing a lot more man, which he should be very good at.

I guess we shall see. He's certainly going to get the opportunities to be that second corner opposite of Slay.

On 6/29/2020 at 6:39 AM, cunninghamtheman said:

I disagree with that No Mas. Graham has clearly been the number two focus of OCs after Cox. They’ve given plenty of doubles or at least chip block assistance on Graham. I also think QBs have possessed tons of confidence vs our secondary. It’s a huge confidence boost for them preparing all week looking at the film of our DBs. Jalen Mills has four career interceptions. Why would that scare any QB off from throwing his way? Our DBs haven’t been turning and playing the ball much. You know QBs see that all week in practice leading up to playing against us. It’s a factor. It emboldens these QBs. 

Found this .. interesting Graham seems to get double teamed on 23% of his pass rushes  .... overall win rate about 18%.    Barnett gets doubled about 16.5 % and has win rate of around 20%.  From a pure pass rushing standpoint.   IDK... my eyes still see more missed tackles on the QB from Graham than seeing a QB that is about to get sacked by Graham hurl a desperation toss up.  It is what it is.  They go hand in hand ... but for my preference I would prefer the DL to be elite.     I don't see too much difference in our secondary from 2017 -2019 ... I see our DL losing talent, depth and health ... with a dropoff from 2017.      I mean... Mills, Darby and Douglas were the guys in 2017.   You can look on paper and see injuries there too... eye test seems like the opposing QB has more time to throw though.    Another thing with the eye test is it seems we are scheming more vs the run on the back end where the DL took care of it more in 2017.   

3 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I guess we shall see. He's certainly going to get the opportunities to be that second corner opposite of Slay.

And I’m expecting our corners to travel more with their matchup. So being versatile is a big plus for the CB2 job this year.

A little tricky with Graham on the Edge rating. He’s moved inside, to DT, on a good amount of the big pass rushing opportunities remember. Many of those would be your higher success rate pass rushing downs. Was that chart just for 2019 or what?

And No Mas, I don’t think it’s a complete desperation toss up by QBs. Like I’ve been saying: I think QBs gain confidence the week they come up on our secondary.

But yes that graph seems to prove what I was saying about Graham getting double teamed. But I’m not sure what that graph takes into consideration. Does a chip block count on that? Or no?

We were playing guys straight off the street in our secondary to finish 2018....so that says plenty(that you didn’t see a dropoff) about the starters.

Cre’von’Strap’LeBlanc looks to be in incredible shape. He got motivated by the Roby-Coleman signing it seems. 

A rookie WR for the Cards drove his car into Lake Erie. Officers arrived while he was still trying to drive it. He told them he was stuck and couldn’t figure out what happened.

http://nflsavant.com/game.php?team_code=PHI&team_id=3700&year=2019&stype=REG

You know I love me some advanced stats. So here you are. Consume this and see what sticks out to you.

I’m haven’t fully digested last year’s stats yet. But I did have an against the grain thought. I was thinking about how we might be better served not to keep Ward on our team. I just think he’s very limited. A bunch of IFS coming. If Goodwin is healthy he could be the better week one option...to start. If Jeffrey could come back by week four or so. DJax should be ready to roll this season. Need to get Reagor some opportunities and touches. That’s four WR. We like to go 12 personnel with two TEs.

JJAW you would think makes the team. He’s supposed to be good at X and the slot. Definitely has much more upside than Ward and brings a different element to the WR room. Always important to diversify. That would be five WR. Getting to be a pretty full boat at WR. We have a fifth round pick in Hightower that is worth taking a shot at developing. Quez Watkins is a burner worth taking a long look at also. Bailey is an interesting undrafted rookie. So would we be better off keeping two of these rookies on to develop than giving the nod to Ward because he’s more serviceable week one. That’s seven WR. Hard to imagine keeping eight. My thinking is leaning this way actually. Hate to lose these rookies if they show some potential. I’m going in thinking they need development. So that’s expected. Do you keep them on for the betterment of the 2021,22,23,24 teams over the limited ceiling veteran? 
  And this is not even giving consideration to a Shelton Gibson, Davis or Burnett breaking out and the light turning on for them. I’d love to see that happen.

So Ward is not a lock to make this team. IMO But probably starts week one in the slot if he does. How do you like that craziness?

59 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I’m haven’t fully digested last year’s stats yet. But I did have an against the grain thought. I was thinking about how we might be better served not to keep Ward on our team. I just think he’s very limited. 

He makes a lot of catches on timing routes that require a lot of trust from the qb that he will be where he needs to be when he needs to be there.

They would be daft to cut him this year with the looming lack of a proper preseason. As far as after this season, when someone comes along who can do what he does, they can have his spot. But he beat out Agholor, Matthews and Hollins last season, and I don't see anyone on the roster except for Reagor who has more juice than those guys.

He also has excellent hands. Hightower and Reagor have both struggled with drops. Ward may not be flashy, but he catches the ball, which is job one.

 

56 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So would we be better off keeping two of these rookies on to develop than giving the nod to Ward because he’s more serviceable week one. That’s seven WR. Hard to imagine keeping eight.

WR is an interesting spot for us because there is a very good chance that DJax, Jeffery and Goodwin won't be here next year, and there's an even better chance all three of those guys might be unavailable due to injury. So they almost have to keep seven guys.

I see six who are near locks - Goodwin, Ward, DJax, JJAW, Hightower, Reagor. The last spot is pretty wide open. Jeffery will be on PUP for a few weeks at least.

I really like Bailey, and I have watched a ton of his games (thanks coronavirus!) One thing I noticed is that he drew a ton of PI penalties because he burned past guys. Granted, it wasn't the best competition. But I saw at least six penalties that he caused, including three in one game where the opposing DBs just started grabbing him on every deep route. He also had a big game against Army, which had a decent set of DBs, including one guy we signed whom I also like.

It's hard to tell how good or bad a wr is in college because they run limited routes and their performance depends a lot on qb play, but this kid looked like the real deal. He is also jacked up, since he is a former linebacker. So he can play inside.  

35 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

He makes a lot of catches on timing routes that require a lot of trust from the qb that he will be where he needs to be when he needs to be there.

They would be daft to cut him this year with the looming lack of a proper preseason. As far as after this season, when someone comes along who can do what he does, they can have his spot. But he beat out Agholor, Matthews and Hollins last season, and I don't see anyone on the roster except for Reagor who has more juice than those guys.

He also has excellent hands. Hightower and Reagor have both struggled with drops. Ward may not be flashy, but he catches the ball, which is job one.

 

He didn’t beat out Agholor really. If we used Perkins instead of Ward what would the drop off be? 7 games for Ward and he had 254 yards and a TD. Ward has been here several seasons now. Just doesn’t bring much to the table. Such a short term fix with little upside. I’d rather develop these young guys and give a chance at finding a diamond in the rough. Just can’t keep everybody on the roster. So I’m thinking swing for the fences with unknowns over the known mediocre at best. One of these young WR not named Reagor should be able to play ball....or else our issues are much bigger than the fact we let Ward walk anyway.

49 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

He didn’t beat out Agholor really. If we used Perkins instead of Ward what would the drop off be? 7 games for Ward and he had 254 yards and a TD. Ward has been here several seasons now. Just doesn’t bring much to the table. Such a short term fix with little upside. I’d rather develop these young guys and give a chance at finding a diamond in the rough. Just can’t keep everybody on the roster. So I’m thinking swing for the fences with unknowns over the known mediocre at best. One of these young WR not named Reagor should be able to play ball....or else our issues are much bigger than the fact we let Ward walk anyway.

The only way Ward should lose his job is because someone proves he is better, not because of potential.

Ward may not have put up gaudy numbers, but he was our best wideout down the stretch. He and Boston Scott put us on their tiny little backs and carried us into the playoffs. And if you look at how teams were playing us, there's no way Ward should have ever caught a pass. We had no deep threat and there was very little room for him. Yet he found a way to get open and caught the ball. Until someone else proves they can do that, why get rid of him?

And if DJax comes back healthy and Reagor is what he's supposed to be, that should open up a lot more room for Ward, who has shown he can break tackles.

 

2 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

He didn’t beat out Agholor really. If we used Perkins instead of Ward what would the drop off be? 7 games for Ward and he had 254 yards and a TD. Ward has been here several seasons now. Just doesn’t bring much to the table. Such a short term fix with little upside. I’d rather develop these young guys and give a chance at finding a diamond in the rough. Just can’t keep everybody on the roster. So I’m thinking swing for the fences with unknowns over the known mediocre at best. One of these young WR not named Reagor should be able to play ball....or else our issues are much bigger than the fact we let Ward walk anyway.

Can we also be fair Ward was also the #1 WR on the team in those 7 games.... And what did Perkins do in those same games???? Along with the rest of the WRs we had paired with him. I mean by no means do I think he is a #1 WR but could be be a solid #2 think he could reach that level think he is more then capable #3...

Ward is only 24 rookies come in the league at his age and Perkins has been in the NFL longer then Ward and shown less