And to be honest, the " pro bowl" part of the drafting isn't even my issue.

The biggest issue is our lack of core players in their primes.    Second contract guys... years 5 to 8.  Ages 26-29.    

Look back at our drafts... of the last 2 coaching regimes.   Starting with Lane Johnson.... who is left on the roster.

When Ertz leaves, only Lane remains from 2013.    Nobody from 2014 or 2015.    Only Seumalo from 2016.  Only Barnett from 2017.   5 drafts... 3 players.   This is the biggest issue,  we should have some core players in that group to build from.  Lane is still good, but older, Seumalo and Barnett, nice players but nothing special.    

Looking at free agents from the last 4 years, Slay and Hargrave last year, nothing else there to build from either.  

The foundation pieces for a solid roster are draft picks from Lane and prior,  and 2 free agents from 2016.   

You bet we need to hit the next 2 drafts and next year's free agents too.  That is just for foundation, not even close to finishing off a championship roster.  

 

It seems like we all agree that Hurts deserves a shot. So, unless we surround him with some semblance of a supporting cast, he is doomed to fail before the season starts. Drafting another QB round 1  this year will just compound the problem IMO...

    I can see a real let down in April coming......

4 minutes ago, stine said:

Bg has already stated that we will go QB with the first pick, problem is he is probably right. So we draft the 3rd or 4th best QB who will most likely not work out.... When you know we can grab a solid Pro-Bowl talent at 6 with Chase or Pitts.

The counter to that is.... we don't know it's the 3rd or 4th best QB, look at where Allen, Mahomes and Watson were taken and the QBs before them.  Or how much does a skill position player impact a bad team right away?  

I think good chance we see a linemen drafted too. 

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

The counter to that is.... we don't know it's the 3rd or 4th best QB, look at where Allen, Mahomes and Watson were taken and the QBs before them.  Or how much does a skill position player impact a bad team right away?  

I think good chance we see a linemen drafted too. 

Sure, the point is we won't know. Drafting a QB has not been a slam dunk in recent years, so getting the third choice may be great or it may just set us back another year. At least grabbing Pitts or Chase will supply us with a weapon. If Hurts fails, we should have enough ammo to move up and get a QB next year. I read the Class may even be stronger next draft..... But we may have 2 first round picks which should help our cause. I cannot imagine we fall out of the top ten picks if Hurts is a bust, right?

Nope - Howie gonna get us a kicker!

 

Just now, stine said:

It seems like we all agree that Hurts deserves a shot. So, unless we surround him with some semblance of a supporting cast, he is doomed to fail before the season starts. Drafting another QB this year will just compound the problem IMO...

    I can see a real let down in April coming......

I don't think 2021 is going to be real bad.  The vets are still here.   My issue is 7 or 8 wins, people act like it's going to win the division and the other teams are in a perpetual state of being bad.  Then it's going to only get better in 2022... while the other 3 teams stay bad.   

I see the decline coming after this year, when we lose the vets or their play declines.   Where are we with 2 years of Driscoll and Herbig on the bench?  Are we going to even look at an option where BOTH Dillard and Mailata could start at OT?   

We draft a WR or Pitts, but don't address DL or CB, or the natural decline happens.   What does that do for us?  

I'm in agreement with spinning wheels if we go QB at 6.  But I'm not going to pop the champagne over one pick either. It's a lot of work to do on this roster.  More than one pro bowler, we need a bunch of solid foundation pieces. 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I don't think 2021 is going to be real bad.  The vets are still here.   My issue is 7 or 8 wins, people act like it's going to win the division and the other teams are in a perpetual state of being bad.  Then it's going to only get better in 2022... while the other 3 teams stay bad.   

I see the decline coming after this year, when we lose the vets or their play declines.   Where are we with 2 years of Driscoll and Herbig on the bench?  Are we going to even look at an option where BOTH Dillard and Mailata could start at OT?   

We draft a WR or Pitts, but don't address DL or CB, or the natural decline happens.   What does that do for us?  

I'm in agreement with spinning wheels if we go QB at 6.  But I'm not going to pop the champagne over one pick either. It's a lot of work to do on this roster.  More than one pro bowler, we need a bunch of solid foundation pieces. 

  I think you are being optimistic, but that is OK. IF we get 7-8 wins, it means Hurts played well IMO....

2 hours ago, mjkline1958 said:

Short memories. Most loved Wentz getting out of the pocket and running - until he got hurt. Then it was train him to stay in the pocket - then there was no pocket. Now there's a dual threat QB and you don't want him to run, even tho the OL's still suspect - augh! Neither saw the whole field like Foles did and both failed to see open guys, but I don't see Hurts as a 1 read or run first QB. The diff between him and Wentz is how quickly he processes what's happening and REACTS - one of the main attributes I look for in a QB. Wentz ran when it was too late. Have to see more of Hurts, but what I saw only had time for 1 or 2 reads, seeing the opportunity and taking it, unlike his predecessor who either wanted the big play to develop or play hero. Facts are no QB can do it w/o a supporting cast, weapons are nice, a solid OL even nicer.

I never wanted Wentz to run and stated that many times

7 minutes ago, stine said:

Sure, the point is we won't know. Drafting a QB has not been a slam dunk in recent years, so getting the third choice may be great or it may just set us back another year. At least grabbing Pitts or Chase will supply us with a weapon. If Hurts fails, we should have enough ammo to move up and get a QB next year. I read the Class may even be stronger next draft..... But we may have 2 first round picks which should help our cause. I cannot imagine we fall out of the top ten picks if Hurts is a bust, right?

I'm with you... but doesn't have to be Chase or Pitts for me either.  And to be honest,  I'm ok with missing on the first pick if the rest of the draft is solid.    11 picks, if we make moves and select 8 or 9 guys, be nice to hit on 6 or 7.   Guys that stick on the roster with a few starters.    

If Hurts busts, easily top 10, I don't expect him to bust this year,  pick 12-17 is probably a good idea for next year,  which is still decent spot.  barring a Wentz injury we get another 1st round pick to use to move up if needed.  But I wouldn't rush that move either.  Another solid draft in 2022 and a couple core free agents.   Let's see what unfolds.  

While I obviously think the QB is the most important position,  I don't want to go through the frustrating of how they handled McNabb and Wentz.  I prefer to build a little bit of a roster first and really giving Hurts a chance.

  You have to be careful moving on from Hurts,  being he is such a likable underdog type and today's political climate, I prefer to exhaust all possibilities with him as the QB.  Leave no doubt.

2 hours ago, mjkline1958 said:

but I don't see Hurts as a 1 read or run first QB.

Really? This was the biggest knock on him lol

1 hour ago, mjkline1958 said:

As for Flacco, would any of you rather have Suds? Flacco's an affordable b/u. a vet presence who may be able to teach Hurts a few things.

Suds stinks Flaccos style is a complete 180 to Hurts. Very stupid move IMO

8 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I never wanted Wentz to run and stated that many times

More correctly we never wanted Wentz to have to run

1 hour ago, stine said:

We are all ignoring the big Picture. Howie needs to hit on the next two drafts.

As Wrangler pointed out to me in an email:

Roseman’s recent draft record has been well documented. No Pro Bowlers since 2016, no Pro Bowlers outside the first round since 2013, no defensive Pro Bowlers since 2012.

 

   This has to change. Problem is with Lurie tampering with Howie, will we do any better?  This will put us back years if not fixed now....

We say this every year "we need to nail this draft". We always say it and Howie gets "lucky" sometimes, but along with those bowlers, there have been some pretty major misses, most markedly in round 1. Instead of taking the "consensus" pick he tries to outsmart himself (see JJ) BTW did ANYONE on this planet have Jjaw on their mock? Didnt think so. Nailing the first 4 picks is pretty much what you need to do EVERY draft

2 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

More correctly we never wanted Wentz to have to run

True,but early on he DID take off alot after 1` read(see Hurts)

1 hour ago, stine said:

I guess what I mean is we are talking about what we want, when we all know that Howie is going to screw it up. I am just trying to brace myself for another stupid pick that shows how "Smart" He is and we waste another year. Can he even draft a pro-bowl player with his first 4 picks?

Pitts will be one, book that. I am trying to imagine this team with Pitts and JJ lol(jebus)

26 minutes ago, stine said:

 

 

 

  I think you are being optimistic, but that is OK. IF we get 7-8 wins, it means Hurts played well 

If everyone of the old dudes stay healthy,  it's mediocre enough for him to play ok and be close to 500.    They will run the ball a lot more which shortens the game, creates less chances for him to mess up.    If injuries happen,  then I agree with you. But I just see the drop off coming after this year.  

41 minutes ago, stine said:

 

 

 

  I think you are being optimistic, but that is OK. IF we get 7-8 wins, it means Hurts played well IMO....

Love the NC QB(42 TD"s ZERO picks). I hope we lose enough to get close enough to get him . Thats why THIS draft we need as many players we take to "stick" And hey,he even has a stache lol

1 hour ago, time2rock said:

We paid Sudfeld $2M last year ... so paying Flacco $3.5M is definitely not unreasonable considering his experience.

It is with the style difference. Seems pointless. Like putting a Daytona car on an indy track GL with that

1 hour ago, stine said:

Bg has already stated that we will go QB with the first pick, problem is he is probably right. So we draft the 3rd or 4th best QB who will most likely not work out.... When you know we can grab a solid Pro-Bowl talent at 6 with Chase or Pitts.

If we pass on Pitts(if he is there) we are dumber than 5 boxes of rocks and I will put my gear up on Ebay so you can buy it cheap from me

9 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

If everyone of the old dudes stay healthy,  it's mediocre enough for him to play ok and be close to 500.    They will run the ball a lot more which shortens the game, creates less chances for him to mess up.    If injuries happen,  then I agree with you. But I just see the drop off coming after this year.  

In the past we used to hope for divisional splits. I don't see that this time. I don't think we beat the Gnats. 0-2 vs Dullaz. we may split one with the Wuss, so for me 1-5 in divisional games and this is a bad division lol. 6 wins is possible for me, 7 would be overachieving. 6-11 or 7-10 with some luck

Just now, GreenbleedinNC said:

6-11 or 7-10 with some luck

Lmao I forgot the nfl was adding an extra game 

3 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Lmao I forgot the nfl was adding an extra game 

The addition was the Jets,we could WIN that!! lol

23 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Love the NC QB(42 TD"s ZERO picks). I hope we lose enough to get close enough to get him . Thats why THIS draft we need as many players we take to "stick" And hey,he even has a stache lol

I hope this team is really good (unlikely) or really sucks

Other wise we'll be in middle of the draft hell

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2022/consensus-big-board-2022   FWIW Howell(QB NC) is at 11 right around where we should end up,but I dont see him staying there

7 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

The addition was the Jets,we could WIN that!! lol

Maybe  

 

1 minute ago, Asg 15 said:

I hope this team is really good (unlikely) or really sucks

Other wise we'll be in middle of the draft hell

I am ruling out "really good" Hoping we can play 60 and show some consistency and at least be a little above mediocre