On 7/8/2020 at 10:40 PM, Trini said:

I have probably read /studied more Hitler, Mussolini , Fascism, White Supremacy name it . My Brain cells have absorbed it. " what's left of my Brain Cells that is." Probably More than most White Supremacist in America. I have  stood side by side with Extremist in the military. Ready to fight whomever was against America  and die with them as Americans. The press may try to label DJax Antisemetic but I would hope that both Laurie and Howie know DJax as a player and a human being they know in their hearts DJax is not Antisemetic I can't speak for DJax.. But this team supported Riley Coopers racial epithets, the black players like Vick and Malcom the leaders allowed him to stay in the fold . Most Black people I know are NOT mean or vindictive, they're just human beings.

But normal people of whatever color/creed don't sell papers/programming/clicks. Outliers do. So who gets all the media attention?

15 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Is really giving his input that he wants a certain WR to be one of the 6 or 7 they keep that big of a deal.  Chemistry with your QB is important on and off the field.   See, that;s my point.  Very legit to think ahead on your part.  Very legit that nobody is a lock to make the roster.   But also legit to let it play out and see... regardless if Ward is better now, maybe they think he has a higher ceiling than one of the guys they drafted and/or shows good chemistry with the QB..etc.   Lots to factor in.  One solid WR as your 5th or 6th guy over a flyer, isn't a big deal.  They had 10 draft picks... 10... hopefully they don't feel the need to keep all of them plus then alos this guy Bailey... never heard of him, I know Philip Bailey from Earth Wind and Fire, not sure who this other guy is that should be offered anything more than a shot at camp... if he does well, probably PS.  They need to make an educated decision on what they think the futures will be AFTER seeing them in camp, not in college film.   Different world in the NFL.    

Giving his input is what I said I’m fine with and would want. I responded to your question of "demanding.” Demanding is a whole different beast than input.

Why this could become a factor isn’t going to be about Ward.....but it could over Ertz. It might be tough for Wentz to say goodbye to Ertz. But that’s why you have the whole organization structured the way it is.

15 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Is really giving his input that he wants a certain WR to be one of the 6 or 7 they keep that big of a deal.  Chemistry with your QB is important on and off the field.   See, that;s my point.  Very legit to think ahead on your part.  Very legit that nobody is a lock to make the roster.   But also legit to let it play out and see... regardless if Ward is better now, maybe they think he has a higher ceiling than one of the guys they drafted and/or shows good chemistry with the QB..etc.   Lots to factor in.  One solid WR as your 5th or 6th guy over a flyer, isn't a big deal.  They had 10 draft picks... 10... hopefully they don't feel the need to keep all of them plus then alos this guy Bailey... never heard of him, I know Philip Bailey from Earth Wind and Fire, not sure who this other guy is that should be offered anything more than a shot at camp... if he does well, probably PS.  They need to make an educated decision on what they think the futures will be AFTER seeing them in camp, not in college film.   Different world in the NFL.    

I like several of our undrafted additions. Bailey is a legit option to make the team. Believe it or not. Michael ‘Truck’ Warren is a very good RB. I have no idea how he didn’t get drafted by someone. But he’s the perfect compliment to Sanders and Scott. I can keep going down the list. But also there were some sneaky additions from other teams like our late pickup at CB. Guy was a complete stud his second year. So you have to balance how much do you put into how ready a guy is to play in 2020 versus his future potential. I’d say with the corner he needs to show plenty this TC. The draft picks and undrafted....were chosen and brought on board because of potential. Not real likely they will be ready for week one. We know that going in. Knew that when they were drafted even. So let them get in to some competition against other NFL players and hopefuls and see how far off they are. Keep the evaluations rolling all the time. Agree with all of that. But also am thinking we need a youth movement badly. So am hopeful we can keep as many of these young guys as possible. We need the development pipeline to come through for us.

14 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Think this is an issue for us and other teams.I think the more you master this the better your team.When to decide when a player is a WIP and when they are a waste of your resources.Sometimes that is a thin line.Some players take more development time.The idea is to know when to throw in the towel

That’s right. It all comes down to making good judgment calls on projections. Just not a perfect science. But if you don’t keep some developmental players instead trying to keep the old played out Sproles (not trying to dog out Sproles but just using him as an example of a past his prime vet)types then you get what has happened to us. Some developmental guys might be busts like the Taylor Hart(I for the record never believed in him. But that’s beside the point)scenario. But you have to keep swinging.

14 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I don't see Wentz as demanding.He is an Alpha male competitor.He will use what the team gives him.I did not see him demanding we get any certain WR in FA(or any other player).I think Wentz would bust even if you gave him a pee wee team to QB.He seems unselfish,that was a quality I liked about him when we selected him.He accepts who the team gets for him,tries to get personal with them all,has camps with them for chemistry and does his best with what he has

No Mas threw down the ‘demand’ scenario. So I didn’t say that. But I could see him being very attached to Ertz and not wanting him to go. I also thought Wentz picked and chose targets more than I’ve ever seen one of our QBs do before. Really forces it to Ertz some. Which isn’t a terrible thing. Really hesitated to throw to Nelly and JJAW at times. Seemed like things picked up some once Agholor hit the bench. Carson couldn’t really afford to be as picky. Probably helped his game a bit. Just drop back and go through the progressions. It simplified things when at points it seemed like Carson was maybe complicating them a bit too much.

16 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Think this is an issue for us and other teams.I think the more you master this the better your team.When to decide when a player is a WIP and when they are a waste of your resources.Sometimes that is a thin line.Some players take more development time.The idea is to know when to throw in the towel

Ny no means would I say New England drafted very well or near the top over the last couple of decades ... lots of " who the F was that"  when you look at their history of picks.   Can't obsess on one aspect of the front office... gotta manage it all and the overall result is what counts. For me... whatever the results of the draft or off season moves, I look to see what the intent was behind the moves.  Do I agree with the intent.  This year, I think we needed the idea of getting speed... I think we needed to draft it at WR. not spend on mediocre guy that cost $7 t o$12 mil per.. then only keep them for a year.  Investing the draft capital shows the commitment to the idea that we need speed guys at WR .. to play for Doug, to play with Wentz... specifically for those 2 guys because we see the results of 2017 and game 1 last year when both Doug and Wentz had that type of player.  Get multiple there... looks like that was the goal.  The investments in the lines have always been there... the change this year was speed at WR and getting a true #1 CB.  We'll see what happens.

16 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Like I said,I may watch the 4th quarter,or depending how things play out,I may not watch at all.I can see the box scores and watch re-runs without supporting the NFL as an entity.We may not have a season at all at this point

dude, you can buy or not buy any merchandise,...personally I don't buy much sports merchandise.... my point, don't BS us with you won't watch the games if they are on this fall.   It's easy to think that now when nothing is going on.... if the games start, the Eagles play, discussions switch to the here and now of what is going on ... on the field... you will watch.  The fact that you are on a discussion board for a team in the off season where nothing is going on says enough.  Why would you put in the time and then not get the enjoyment of watching the games?  

3 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Giving his input is what I said I’m fine with and would want. I responded to your question of "demanding.” Demanding is a whole different beast than input.

OK... lets say Wentz has a very very strong opinion that he wants Ward on the team.   Is that better?   What do you do if you are in charge?  If you build the team around this guy, and are all for it... trading up the picks " Calling it like Ham always does and letting us know about it"   ... now, nah we won't listen to this guy on who he wants as one of his 6 or 7 WRs????  Because we need to avoid the risk of a poach for a very late round pick or undrafted guy?  That guy who didn't show much at all????  

3 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Why this could become a factor isn’t going to be about Ward.....but it could over Ertz. It might be tough for Wentz to say goodbye to Ertz. But that’s why you have the whole organization structured the way it is.

Well.... I think the cap hit for Ertz ... and the league minimum cap hits for the WRs gives a little different of a circumstance... plus the age.  Ertz won't be cheap and he won't be around forever.  To pick one 24 year old WR over another 24 year old... based upon in 2023 the one could be better.... IDK.   Ward should not be a lock.  If he earns it, then he should stay.  

2 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I like several of our undrafted additions. Bailey is a legit option to make the team. Believe it or not. Michael ‘Truck’ Warren is a very good RB. I have no idea how he didn’t get drafted by someone. But he’s the perfect compliment to Sanders and Scott. I can keep going down the list. But also there were some sneaky additions from other teams like our late pickup at CB. Guy was a complete stud his second year. So you have to balance how much do you put into how ready a guy is to play in 2020 versus his future potential. I’d say with the corner he needs to show plenty this TC. The draft picks and undrafted....were chosen and brought on board because of potential. Not real likely they will be ready for week one. We know that going in. Knew that when they were drafted even. So let them get in to some competition against other NFL players and hopefuls and see how far off they are. Keep the evaluations rolling all the time. Agree with all of that. But also am thinking we need a youth movement badly. So am hopeful we can keep as many of these young guys as possible. We need the development pipeline to come through for us.

Yeah... Ward being 24 fits youth.   What your argument was... you want potential greatness....  and I said the idea should be potential greatness from Reager.  I also said you need solid guys on the roster too.  If Ward fits that, it works.  To cut him because one of the late guys could be " great"  but you don't see enough in camp... I think not a wise move.  Age is not a factor for Ward... he could be a solid WR for 10 more years.  Would only be better for us as his chemistry improves with the QB.   Imagine having that solid option for that long... then it lets you go for the gusto more with your draft picks or signings... because you have the solid guy already there.  

 

 

2 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

That’s right. It all comes down to making good judgment calls on projections. Just not a perfect science. But if you don’t keep some developmental players instead trying to keep the old played out Sproles (not trying to dog out Sproles but just using him as an example of a past his prime vet)types then you get what has happened to us. Some developmental guys might be busts like the Taylor Hart(I for the record never believed in him. But that’s beside the point)scenario. But you have to keep swinging.

Agree... but 34 year old Sproles and 24 year old Ward... not good analogy.  

3 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Why this could become a factor isn’t going to be about Ward.....but it could over Ertz. It might be tough for Wentz to say goodbye to Ertz. But that’s why you have the whole organization structured the way it is.

IDK I have a tough time losing Ertz.Goedert may be capable to replace him,but then you'd lose the dual threat unless you have a Goedert replacement.Until we find a set of WR's we can count on for more than 4 games,I wouldn't mess with the TE position at ALL

34 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Ny no means would I say New England drafted very well or near the top over the last couple of decades ... lots of " who the F was that"  when you look at their history of picks.   Can't obsess on one aspect of the front office... gotta manage it all and the overall result is what counts. For me... whatever the results of the draft or off season moves, I look to see what the intent was behind the moves.  Do I agree with the intent.  This year, I think we needed the idea of getting speed... I think we needed to draft it at WR. not spend on mediocre guy that cost $7 t o$12 mil per.. then only keep them for a year.  Investing the draft capital shows the commitment to the idea that we need speed guys at WR .. to play for Doug, to play with Wentz... specifically for those 2 guys because we see the results of 2017 and game 1 last year when both Doug and Wentz had that type of player.  Get multiple there... looks like that was the goal.  The investments in the lines have always been there... the change this year was speed at WR and getting a true #1 CB.  We'll see what happens.

But NE has excellent coaches that bring out the players best and work off their best attributes. I see flashes of that from Duce in the running game and I am happy with the TE staff ,but WOW our WR coaches have been as lackluster as our med dept. First keep guys on the field,that has to come first. The WR coaches had a tough year last year playing musical receivers,so I cant put all the blame them.Our WR draft picks have all been mediocre or worse.AG was the "best" we could do in 5 years? Jjaw-jury is out,but really underperformed to this point.I opted for JJ in the draft,still think he will be the better receiver.Time will tell there.Hollins was a waste of time and resources.if we can't find WR's teams actually need to game plan for,it will be another long stretch before we see another Lombardi

38 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

dude, you can buy or not buy any merchandise,...personally I don't buy much sports merchandise.... my point, don't BS us with you won't watch the games if they are on this fall.   It's easy to think that now when nothing is going on.... if the games start, the Eagles play, discussions switch to the here and now of what is going on ... on the field... you will watch.  The fact that you are on a discussion board for a team in the off season where nothing is going on says enough.  Why would you put in the time and then not get the enjoyment of watching the games?  

I can discuss the team because nothing is going on. I will decide if I watch or not and as I said,maybe I watch the 4th qtr if I watch at all

Maybe if we are lucky,they will play every anthem from every players home country.We can hear Canada,Australia,some asian anthems,europe,mexico, jamaica,maybe even toss our own in if time allows and then maybe there wont be time for the game.Gotta pander to everyone now

8 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Maybe if we are lucky,they will play every anthem from every players home country.We can hear Canada,Australia,some asian anthems,europe,mexico, jamaica,maybe even toss our own in if time allows and then maybe there wont be time for the game.Gotta pander to everyone now

Tell me when the coin toss is on, so I know I need to be ready in 2 minutes.   Then I will watch with the rest of the fans.  As you will too. Like I said, when the games start, you will be focused in on it.  Now there is nothing, so you will let this other stuff get in your mind.  

 

20 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Maybe if we are lucky,they will play every anthem from every players home country.We can hear Canada,Australia,some asian anthems,europe,mexico, jamaica,maybe even toss our own in if time allows and then maybe there wont be time for the game.Gotta pander to everyone now

BTW... reading this I was thinking about the movie A Few Good Men .... " maybe if we are lucky, we can get them charged with the Kennedy assassination?      LOL

21 hours ago, joemas6 said:

OK... lets say Wentz has a very very strong opinion that he wants Ward on the team.   Is that better?   What do you do if you are in charge?  If you build the team around this guy, and are all for it... trading up the picks " Calling it like Ham always does and letting us know about it"   ... now, nah we won't listen to this guy on who he wants as one of his 6 or 7 WRs????  Because we need to avoid the risk of a poach for a very late round pick or undrafted guy?  That guy who didn't show much at all????  

If you recall Ward didn’t make the team initially. So he could have been poached off the PS.

21 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Yeah... Ward being 24 fits youth.   What your argument was... you want potential greatness....  and I said the idea should be potential greatness from Reager.  I also said you need solid guys on the roster too.  If Ward fits that, it works.  To cut him because one of the late guys could be " great"  but you don't see enough in camp... I think not a wise move.  Age is not a factor for Ward... he could be a solid WR for 10 more years.  Would only be better for us as his chemistry improves with the QB.   Imagine having that solid option for that long... then it lets you go for the gusto more with your draft picks or signings... because you have the solid guy already there.  

 

 

Agree... but 34 year old Sproles and 24 year old Ward... not good analogy.  

I didn’t make an analogy between Ward and Sproles.

  On the other point: you can always go out there and find a fourth year NFL player that probably will be better in TC than a developmental rookie. That shouldn’t be the sole basis for guys making the squad. Same goes for whom to draft. I don’t want to always draft the most NFL ready prospect. You have to consider the ceiling of a players talent. This was a great example of that this past draft. It’s riskier but the payoff could be so worth it.

21 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

IDK I have a tough time losing Ertz.Goedert may be capable to replace him,but then you'd lose the dual threat unless you have a Goedert replacement.Until we find a set of WR's we can count on for more than 4 games,I wouldn't mess with the TE position at ALL

Things change, like it or not. Ertz declined an extension. Goedert could Very likely want to be the number one TE. Decisions have to be made. Unlikely it happens this season. But it’s coming.

21 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

But NE has excellent coaches that bring out the players best and work off their best attributes. I see flashes of that from Duce in the running game and I am happy with the TE staff ,but WOW our WR coaches have been as lackluster as our med dept. First keep guys on the field,that has to come first. The WR coaches had a tough year last year playing musical receivers,so I cant put all the blame them.Our WR draft picks have all been mediocre or worse.AG was the "best" we could do in 5 years? Jjaw-jury is out,but really underperformed to this point.I opted for JJ in the draft,still think he will be the better receiver.Time will tell there.Hollins was a waste of time and resources.if we can't find WR's teams actually need to game plan for,it will be another long stretch before we see another Lombardi

Medical staff: I can’t really say if that issue has been fixed. We probably are due a little luck on the injury front as well.

WR Coach has been upgraded. I have high hopes for Aaron Moorehead. That is the first big step in fixing that position group. Next was investing in speed. Reagor brings some playmaking ability that has been lacking. Goodwin and DJax are two of the fastest players in the league. Got some speedy day three prospects also. Moorehead has to unlock JJAW. He’s the other needed piece to the WR puzzle.

Also NC, New England is far from perfect of developing and getting the most out of every draft prospect. They haven’t got anything from their first round WR. They took Sony Michel in the first round and he has hardly looked the part of RB stud. Bellicheat is good at putting guys in positions for them to be successful. I’ll give him that. But I don’t feel they are really superior to us in developing players.

21 hours ago, joemas6 said:

BTW... reading this I was thinking about the movie A Few Good Men .... " maybe if we are lucky, we can get them charged with the Kennedy assassination?      LOL

You can’t handle the truth

The NFL brass are morons sometimes. They want to play games with players crashing against each other. But they are banning jersey swapping over fear of spread of the virus. Just can’t make stuff like this up.

Reading how everything thinks the Redskins should change their name to the Generals. The Generals were famous for always getting beat down by the Globetrotters. So it takes all the pressure off them to actually win.