9 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

If the Eagles manage to get 3 1st round picks next year they're bound to hit on one of them.

Aren't they

  Unless they use all 3 picks to grab a QB next year.....

 

11 minutes ago, stine said:

Well, I disagree totally with this. First, there is a definite advantage to getting a premier talent at 6 vs 12. Even Howie could not screw that up. Just remember Chase and Pitts and watch them play. Then you tell me next year how bad they are.

   Trading a 12th pick for a proven player makes absolutely no sense. We are cap strapped as it is and you want to take on more cap? Really?

Last, Why trade away 3 first round picks for a vet that has 3-5 years left and have to pay 25+ mil for when, again, you are strapped for Cap space. If Hurts fails the Eagles will pick in the top 10 again, so they have plenty of Ammo to grab a QB next year in the draft and keep the Cap space.

 

  

Stine, we don't know who is available at 6.  Experts still disagreeing on who is the best WR.  Cory Davis, Sammy Watkins, Crabtree... those were guys supposed to be top level. Nothing guaranteed.  Cox and DeShuan Watson were both drafted 12th.   

And I'm not talking about trading pick 12 for a player. I'm talking about that we acquired a 1st round pick.  Like we did 2008... we then traded that pick the following year for Peters,  still selected Maclin with our own pick.    And so it sets up if next year we want to trade for a player, we can do so.   

Plus yeah... the idea " even Howie can't screw this up"  is that really something you believe?  You don't think there was any chance at all that a pick would have been something other than Pitts or Chase???? Really?   This is Howie and Lurie now, not the mock drafters making the pick.  

12 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

Wen need to make a list of the "generational talent" players who have failed miserably

I'll start with Tony Mandrich, OT, Green Bay

   Sure, make that list and then make one that has not failed. You will find a very one sided table. I would think...

2 minutes ago, stine said:

   Sure, make that list and then make one that has not failed. You will find a very one sided table. I would think...

How about comparing picks 6 and 12 for the last decade or so?   Is that something that is fair?

 

7 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Stine, we don't know who is available at 6.  Experts still disagreeing on who is the best WR.  Cory Davis, Sammy Watkins, Crabtree... those were guys supposed to be top level. Nothing guaranteed.  Cox and DeShuan Watson were both drafted 12th.   

And I'm not talking about trading pick 12 for a player. I'm talking about that we acquired a 1st round pick.  Like we did 2008... we then traded that pick the following year for Peters,  still selected Maclin with our own pick.    And so it sets up if next year we want to trade for a player, we can do so.   

Plus yeah... the idea " even Howie can't screw this up"  is that really something you believe?  You don't think there was any chance at all that a pick would have been something other than Pitts or Chase???? Really?   This is Howie and Lurie now, not the mock drafters making the pick.  

  No, I did not think any of those players were Generational Talent picks. Plus Crabtree was drafted 10th.

5 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

How about comparing picks 6 and 12 for the last decade or so?   Is that something that is fair?

 

  No, you cannot compare one draft to another. Reason is some drafts are much more deep in talent than other years....

10 minutes ago, stine said:

   Sure, make that list and then make one that has not failed. You will find a very one sided table. I would think...

What i'm saying is you cant turn down what you consider a deal that will help your team in the long run based on the fact that you might lose out on a player.

If you can't make decisions like that you don't deserve to be in the position you are in.

Of course seeing what i just wrote and considering who is making that decision i'm depressed now

lets go back a decade.... 2011 to 2020  and compare pick 6 and 12 each year

2011  ... Julio Jones  vs   Christian Ponder 
2012 ... Morris Claiborne  vs Cox    
2013 ... Barkevious Mingo  vs DJ Hayden
2014 .. Jake Matthews  vs Odell Beckam JR.
2015 ... Leonard Williams   vs Danny Shelton
2016 ... Ronnie Stanley  vs Sheldon Rankins
2017 ... Jamal Adams   vs DeShaun Watson
2018 ... Quenton Nelson  vs Vita Vea
2019 .. Daniel Jones   vs Rashan Gary
2020 ... Justin Herbert  vs Henry Ruggs.

To me I think 6 has the advantage for sure... as it should.   2011 and 2012 were clear winners at opposite picks.  You have a few years in there where you could debate it though.  I have to be honest, when reading up on this year's draft, I was hoping for a trade down the whole time.  really looks like the type of player that the Eagles would prefer to draft was not going to be there at 6.  I just didn't see them going with a skill player that early.  Not them.   you seemed to have wanted the LB from Penn State, good chance he is there at 12, not sure they take him either though.   For some reason I have had either DL or CB in my head this year in regards to what the Eagles are going to do.  They have gone offense the last 3 years with their first picks.  Last year offense with the first 2 picks and in 2019 they went offense with the first 3 picks. I can't remember them going this long without taking a DL first... not sure it's ever happened under Lurie???  

BTW... 2018... I get that everyone loved Barkley.... But this kid Nelson would have been my pick, might end up being best OL of his generation. Then they could have had Chubb in round 2.  Instead they get Will Hernandez...  same combo, but I don't think as good.  Nelson is a real game changer.   

11 minutes ago, stine said:

  No, you cannot compare one draft to another. Reason is some drafts are much more deep in talent than other years....

But this is my issue.... you seem to already have it set in stone about these prospects.... like it's guaranteed they will be there, the Eagles would take them and that they will be generational players?    That's a lot to guarantee IMO.    IDK, I would trade down every time barring a top QB or top linemen projected to be at my spot.  And I'm a big fan of having the #1 weapon, just don't trust it when it comes to the Eagles drafting that guy.    Much rather them make a trade for that young established vet when it comes to that position.   

17 minutes ago, stine said:

  No, you cannot compare one draft to another. Reason is some drafts are much more deep in talent than other years....

BTW... I would almost guarantee... there will be players drafted outside of round 1 that will be better than half the top 12 and probably half the top 6. when it's all said and done.  

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

But this is my issue.... you seem to already have it set in stone about these prospects.... like it's guaranteed they will be there, the Eagles would take them and that they will be generational players?    That's a lot to guarantee IMO.    IDK, I would trade down every time barring a top QB or top linemen projected to be at my spot.  And I'm a big fan of having the #1 weapon, just don't trust it when it comes to the Eagles drafting that guy.    Much rather them make a trade for that young established vet when it comes to that position.   

  Well, this is my issue. You stand pat and see what happens. IF that player is not there at 6, you then try and trade back. You are right, no one knows for sure what is going to happen at 6. Miami seems fairly certain that Chase is going to be there.....

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

BTW... I would almost guarantee... there will be players drafted outside of round 1 that will be better than half the top 12 and probably half the top 6. when it's all said and done.  

LOL, I can be sure you are right!  Problem is Howie would never find them!! If we had a good record of drafting talent I would be on board with this 100%. We all know that Howie will not take the BPA at 12. In fact I would not be surprised if he drafts a QB!

14 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

lets go back a decade.... 2011 to 2020  and compare pick 6 and 12 each year

2011  ... Julio Jones  vs   Christian Ponder 
2012 ... Morris Claiborne  vs Cox    
2013 ... Barkevious Mingo  vs DJ Hayden
2014 .. Jake Matthews  vs Odell Beckam JR.
2015 ... Leonard Williams   vs Danny Shelton
2016 ... Ronnie Stanley  vs Sheldon Rankins
2017 ... Jamal Adams   vs DeShaun Watson
2018 ... Quenton Nelson  vs Vita Vea
2019 .. Daniel Jones   vs Rashan Gary
2020 ... Justin Herbert  vs Henry Ruggs.

To me I think 6 has the advantage for sure... as it should.   2011 and 2012 were clear winners at opposite picks.  You have a few years in there where you could debate it though.  I have to be honest, when reading up on this year's draft, I was hoping for a trade down the whole time.  really looks like the type of player that the Eagles would prefer to draft was not going to be there at 6.  I just didn't see them going with a skill player that early.  Not them.   you seemed to have wanted the LB from Penn State, good chance he is there at 12, not sure they take him either though.   For some reason I have had either DL or CB in my head this year in regards to what the Eagles are going to do.  They have gone offense the last 3 years with their first picks.  Last year offense with the first 2 picks and in 2019 they went offense with the first 3 picks. I can't remember them going this long without taking a DL first... not sure it's ever happened under Lurie???  

BTW... 2018... I get that everyone loved Barkley.... But this kid Nelson would have been my pick, might end up being best OL of his generation. Then they could have had Chubb in round 2.  Instead they get Will Hernandez...  same combo, but I don't think as good.  Nelson is a real game changer.   

 You cannot compare one year to another as I have stated before. Also, You have to take into account what that team is looking for. Sometimes teams reach to get a position of need instead of just drafting the best player. In 2020 SD needed a QB. in 2017 The Jets did not think they needed a QB. Of course they were wrong but Adams was a great pick....

33 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

What i'm saying is you cant turn down what you consider a deal that will help your team in the long run based on the fact that you might lose out on a player.

If you can't make decisions like that you don't deserve to be in the position you are in.

Of course seeing what i just wrote and considering who is making that decision i'm depressed now

Just to point out Pitts as a "generational player" we also have a coach that knows his capabilities,it's not like he  would be around total strangers,so he has an in"not that he needs one". Dullaz boards assumed we would take Pitts,so they went with Surtain as the "fan" pick. If Pitts is there for them,they will take him and get the CB in round(like we should have done). We would have had Pitts for 5 years. DOing the trade ensures your get you "franchise" QB next draft,remains to be seen if this was a good trade or not. GL defending against Pitts twice a year lol

55 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

If the Eagles manage to get 3 1st round picks next year they're bound to hit on one of them.

Aren't they

MS2

36 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

What i'm saying is you cant turn down what you consider a deal that will help your team in the long run based on the fact that you might lose out on a player.

If you can't make decisions like that you don't deserve to be in the position you are in.

Of course seeing what i just wrote and considering who is making that decision i'm depressed now

IDK how to "like" this post. I could laugh or cry here

5 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Just to point out Pitts as a "generational player" we also have a coach that knows his capabilities,it's not like he  would be around total strangers,so he has an in"not that he needs one". Dullaz boards assumed we would take Pitts,so they went with Surtain as the "fan" pick. If Pitts is there for them,they will take him and get the CB in round(like we should have done). We would have had Pitts for 5 years. DOing the trade ensures your get you "franchise" QB next draft,remains to be seen if this was a good trade or not. GL defending against Pitts twice a year lol

And if Hurts turns out to be good you get 3 game  changers that you will have for 5 years

Either way upi look at it you have to trust Howie to draft correctly.

A big leap of faith i know.

15 minutes ago, stine said:

LOL, I can be sure you are right!  Problem is Howie would never find them!! If we had a good record of drafting talent I would be on board with this 100%. We all know that Howie will not take the BPA at 12. In fact I would not be surprised if he drafts a QB!

Howie is the best at UDFA players,when the pressure is OFF.he spent one whole year learning how to be a "football guy" Sorry,it takes more than 1 year. He needs to keep going back to school, like car mechanics, there is always something new to learn. If he can't do that,hire a guy that WILL. I once stitched up a wounded animal. Does that experience make me a surgeon?

3 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

And if Hurts turns out to be good you get 3 game  changers that you will have for 5 years

Either way upi look at it you have to trust Howie to draft correctly.

A big leap of faith i know.

Yeah thats a big "IF". There is alot riding on that. If DOHie had been making the right picks the last 4 years, perhaps Wentz would still be here and upright. JJ would already be on our roster and we could have added Pitts, but with not so hot draft picks and injuries and bonehead play calls, it's no wonder we are where we are. IMO Hurts is merely a place holder and we get our QB next year. Of course Hurts could surprise the league and light it up. SO what I want to know is when we drafted Wentz,to make that move WHO made the decision? IDK maybe Lurie,but he trusts Howies calls. The top 2 of our FO is the ongoing "issue" and neither of them are football guys. If you are in a top spot you better already know they guys jobs under you or why are you there? Howie is fine contract wise,but he's no "player picker". I see zero reson to go WR in 2 either. This is a deep deep class and I am finding guys even in round 5 that WILL contribute,so for me the focus should be on defense and finding a TOP TOP TOP replacement for Kelce since that is the anchor of your offensive line

21 minutes ago, stine said:

  Well, this is my issue. You stand pat and see what happens. IF that player is not there at 6, you then try and trade back. You are right, no one knows for sure what is going to happen at 6. Miami seems fairly certain that Chase is going to be there.....

Again though.... that is one third of the equation.  the other 2.... would the Eagles select him ... and will he be a generational talent.   2 big questions.  Even if you are sure on one of the answers, need both to make it work.   IMO, it should seem obvious, the Eagles were not in love with the players who were there at 6, as compared to 12... so they made the trade.  Otherwise, waiting to see who is there, is the strategy most teams actually use if they really like a player or two.  

I gotta be honest, I will not be surprised if they make another trade back.  Maybe Wash needs a QB and is willing to go from 19 to 12.  If the players the Eagles like are gone or a bunch still there, I wouldn't be surprised to see them make the trade.    Not sure what 19 to 12 would get us?   Maybe another 2nd this year?  

23 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

1-12- Jaycee Horn-CB- S.Caro    2-37- Oweh-Edge-Penn   3-70 Surratt-LB- NC   3-84- Josh Myers-C-OSU   4-123-Daruis Sills-DT-WV   5-143-Cornell Powell-WR- Clem   6-188-Jaret Patterson-RB-Buffalo  6-223- Kenny Yeboah-TE-Miss   6-224-Jimmy Morrissey-OG- Pitt   7-233- Brady Breeze-S-Oregon   7-238- Josh Ball-OT- Marshall   UDFA Brady White-QB-Memphis

Here is my last mock which you haters don't care about,but uncannily many of these guys showed up on the pro's "new" mocks. SO hate away,but you know these picks would help us everywhere(or at least lot of spots) and I am expecting my first SIX picks to contribute NOW,with the exception of Myers,who can learn and take over after this season as our C for the next decade

24 minutes ago, stine said:

 You cannot compare one year to another as I have stated before. Also, You have to take into account what that team is looking for. Sometimes teams reach to get a position of need instead of just drafting the best player. In 2020 SD needed a QB. in 2017 The Jets did not think they needed a QB. Of course they were wrong but Adams was a great pick....

Stine... and this happens every year.... every year.   There are guys that are supposed to be generational talents... or whatever.  Too many variables here.  Really it's almost 50% that pick 12 might end up being as good or better anyway.   Miami pick could be really good next year.   This team needs to climb over 3 other teams in the division and it's not going to be NFC Least anymore... we need more than one pick.  One that obviously was not going to be the guy you thought, or they wouldn't have traded out of there.     Or maybe they think Pitts falls... I've heard that from more than one " expert"   you just never know for sure here, we need to stop acting like we do know all of these things.    The biggest variable ... what do the Eagles think?   

10 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Again though.... that is one third of the equation.  the other 2.... would the Eagles select him ... and will he be a generational talent.   2 big questions.  Even if you are sure on one of the answers, need both to make it work.   IMO, it should seem obvious, the Eagles were not in love with the players who were there at 6, as compared to 12... so they made the trade.  Otherwise, waiting to see who is there, is the strategy most teams actually use if they really like a player or two.  

I gotta be honest, I will not be surprised if they make another trade back.  Maybe Wash needs a QB and is willing to go from 19 to 12.  If the players the Eagles like are gone or a bunch still there, I wouldn't be surprised to see them make the trade.    Not sure what 19 to 12 would get us?   Maybe another 2nd this year?  

What Stine means is these trade backs get you more picks,of NON "generational" talent. You may find one late in 1,maybe 2 if you are lucky,but loading up on a boatload of "average" is what you end up with an "average" team. If I can pick outstanding game changing players in round 6,give me 32 round 6 picks

5 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Again though.... that is one third of the equation.  the other 2.... would the Eagles select him ... and will he be a generational talent.   2 big questions.  Even if you are sure on one of the answers, need both to make it work.   IMO, it should seem obvious, the Eagles were not in love with the players who were there at 6, as compared to 12... so they made the trade.  Otherwise, waiting to see who is there, is the strategy most teams actually use if they really like a player or two.  

I gotta be honest, I will not be surprised if they make another trade back.  Maybe Wash needs a QB and is willing to go from 19 to 12.  If the players the Eagles like are gone or a bunch still there, I wouldn't be surprised to see them make the trade.    Not sure what 19 to 12 would get us?   Maybe another 2nd this year?  

  I think Howie wants to be smarter than everyone else. That is why he made the trade. Look, if he nails the draft I am on board. Nut I doubt he will do anything we like. My guess is he drafts a QB, WR or reaches for a Lineman that could have gone at 20 or later. Trading back to 19 WOULD NET US A 2ND this year or possibly a 1st next year if we threw in a 3rd or 4th....

19 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

And if Hurts turns out to be good you get 3 game  changers that you will have for 5 years

Either way upi look at it you have to trust Howie to draft correctly.

A big leap of faith i know.

Right,,, but in getting extra high picks... it also enables him to trade... which to me is a safer bet then having him make the draft picks..... i'm surprised nobody brings this up?   WE always say we need to trade and use free agency because we can't draft well... and we get ammo to do that, and suddenly it's a bad thing?    IDK... Howie was going to for sure hit on pick 6, and he is for sure going to miss on pick 12....   If i'm being honest..... i'm more than 51%  (use whatever number you like to make it more than half)   that Howie was going to draft a guy at 6, that he is going to draft at 12.... I can't see why nobody else thinks like this.   He has done this how many times over the years, but yeah... in 2021 he was going to take " your guy"   ??????