13 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Yeah thats a big "IF". There is alot riding on that. If DOHie had been making the right picks the last 4 years, perhaps Wentz would still be here and upright. 

I sure hope this is obvious    ....  man I can't wait to fast forward past this season, I think a lot of things people are just a little behind on at the moment.     Not really you GB, just a lot of fans in general.    

SO with Pitts "seemingly" out of the picture, I will now look at the FL WR's and where they can be had,simply due to the "FL connection" I really like Grimes and think he would work well here. I will look at him more and see if I can plug him in somewhere and of course there is Toney. So the question here is did Trask make THEM look good,or the other way around?

4 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Stine... and this happens every year.... every year.   There are guys that are supposed to be generational talents... or whatever.  Too many variables here.  Really it's almost 50% that pick 12 might end up being as good or better anyway.  

  Almost 50 % that a 12th pick MIGHT be as good or better than the 6th?

 

     Sorry Joe. I just don't buy it. You can say whatever you think, but the reality is we have Howie doing the draft. Not Baltimore or a team with a proven track record. For Howie, he need the 6th to have a great shot of grabbing a absolute HOF potential Player. He won't do it at 12. I have no faith.

  WE can go on and on but neither of us will change their stance. Let's see what happens. I hope you are right and we grab a solid player. I just feel most of us will be shaking their head....

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I sure hope this is obvious    ....  man I can't wait to fast forward past this season, I think a lot of things people are just a little behind on at the moment.     Not really you GB, just a lot of fans in general.    

Yeah fans want the team to succeed every year and those rebuild years are always a drain on your fandom. I had to suffer through the Browns who took 30 years to re-build,but they finally got it right HAHA

4 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

What Stine means is these trade backs get you more picks,of NON "generational" talent. You may find one late in 1,maybe 2 if you are lucky,but loading up on a boatload of "average" is what you end up with an "average" team. If I can pick outstanding game changing players in round 6,give me 32 round 6 picks

What I means is .... .Howie tends to pick guys that don't follow mocks.... and it should be obvious that they traded down because they didn't feel that highly on a player at 6 like you guys do.   right or wrong, it seems that is the way it is.     And to be honest.... if I had to wager... if we stayed at 6, I think better chance of drafting OL than WR or TE.   Probably CB or DL too.  I just don't think they were going to take a skill guy there like you guys do.   I think better chance it happens at 12 where they can say that they also got another top pick.    And again, they drafted offense ...top 2 picks 2020, top 3 in 2019 and top pick in 2018.     IDK if they go this long without taking D.  

Hard to see all of these things when simply focused and obsessed with one player.  

14 minutes ago, stine said:

  Almost 50 % that a 12th pick MIGHT be as good or better than the 6th?

 

     Sorry Joe. I just don't buy it. You can say whatever you think, but the reality is we have Howie doing the draft. Not Baltimore or a team with a proven track record. For Howie, he need the 6th to have a great shot of grabbing a absolute HOF potential Player. He won't do it at 12. I have no faith.

  WE can go on and on but neither of us will change their stance. Let's see what happens. I hope you are right and we grab a solid player. I just feel most of us will be shaking their head....

LMAo last year when we took Reagor, the VIkes war room erupted in celebration(before they even picked). Dullaz WILL take Pitts if he is there(If Miami doesn't) What a terrific weapon for Tua in south beach. 2 moves that could still happen, Carolina could move to 4 and the Pats have been talking to both ATL and Cincy about a move up,so it looks to me like it wil be a QB draft. Carolina could stay and hope lance falls to them

4 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

What I means is .... .Howie tends to pick guys that don't follow mocks.... and it should be obvious that they traded down because they didn't feel that highly on a player at 6 like you guys do.   right or wrong, it seems that is the way it is.     And to be honest.... if I had to wager... if we stayed at 6, I think better chance of drafting OL than WR or TE.   Probably CB or DL too.  I just don't think they were going to take a skill guy there like you guys do.   I think better chance it happens at 12 where they can say that they also got another top pick.    And again, they drafted offense ...top 2 picks 2020, top 3 in 2019 and top pick in 2018.     IDK if they go this long without taking D.  

Hard to see all of these things when simply focused and obsessed with one player.  

Except Pitts isn't just the top TE,ONLY as a WR he would be in the top 6 regardless of his TE ability. If he was JUST a TE,I would agree,but I am obsessed because I know what an offensive weapon he can be. Like JJ on steroids(and we passed on JJ too),then wonder why we can't get a receiver with over 500 yards(DUH) because you aren't drafting them????. Like I said GL defensing him when DUllaz takes him(if Miami doesn't)

6 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

SO with Pitts "seemingly" out of the picture, I will now look at the FL WR's and where they can be had,simply due to the "FL connection" I really like Grimes and think he would work well here. I will look at him more and see if I can plug him in somewhere and of course there is Toney. So the question here is did Trask make THEM look good,or the other way around?

Well, if Pitts is there at 9, I would jump at trading our pick 84 plus 12 for that pick and possibly their 5th rounder....

9 minutes ago, stine said:

  I think Howie wants to be smarter than everyone else. That is why he made the trade. Look, if he nails the draft I am on board. Nut I doubt he will do anything we like. My guess is he drafts a QB, WR or reaches for a Lineman that could have gone at 20 or later. Trading back to 19 WOULD NET US A 2ND this year or possibly a 1st next year if we threw in a 3rd or 4th....

I think he would have been smarter than everyone with pick 6.   For some reason this seems to not be understood?    A mock is a mock... what Howie would do at 6 is totally different.   Really I had a hard time seeing them go WR or TE at 6.  Just not their way of doing things.  WE have years of seeing this play out... each year " but this year is different" 

Besides... we seem to overlook another fact.... as Fulgham and Reagor said... " I ain't worried about the offense ...at all"     Maybe they love their WRs.... and like many on here... Wentz was the problem.  Who knows.  But the trade back to me ... first thing I thought, they never wanted to take a skill guy at 6.  

Reading a new rumor that the thought is Cincy takes Chase and that played in us moving back... Could be a smoke who knows but would make sense Chase would be our top guy at skill position if we stayed at 6 

1 minute ago, stine said:

Well, if Pitts is there at 9, I would jump at trading our pick 84 plus 12 for that pick and possibly their 5th rounder....

yeah I am not out of the Pitts lottery yet either lol. All I can do is mock without trades

4 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

What I means is .... .Howie tends to pick guys that don't follow mocks.... and it should be obvious that they traded down because they didn't feel that highly on a player at 6 like you guys do.   right or wrong, it seems that is the way it is.     And to be honest.... if I had to wager... if we stayed at 6, I think better chance of drafting OL than WR or TE.   Probably CB or DL too.  I just don't think they were going to take a skill guy there like you guys do.   I think better chance it happens at 12 where they can say that they also got another top pick.    And again, they drafted offense ...top 2 picks 2020, top 3 in 2019 and top pick in 2018.     IDK if they go this long without taking D.  

Hard to see all of these things when simply focused and obsessed with one player.  

  Actually I think Howie was really thinking that he may need a QB in 2022 so he wanted another 1st round pick. It had nothing to do with this year...

This(assumed) QB derby will have alot of players falling,some mocks have 5 QB's going in the top 8. The latest trades really put the pressure on Carolina and the Pats lol

3 minutes ago, stine said:

  Actually I think Howie was really thinking that he may need a QB in 2022 so he wanted another 1st round pick. It had nothing to do with this year...

Yep, Howie is covering Howie. he always covers himself first. I think that was the reason for the trade back also and probably why we drafted Hurts to begin with(CYA Roseman)

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Besides... we seem to overlook another fact.... as Fulgham and Reagor said... " I ain't worried about the offense ...at all"     Maybe they love their WRs

I mean we have invested quite a bit at WR and got a coach who apparently knows WRs... Got basically 4 guys going into year two with Reagor/Hightower/Watkins/Fulgham wouldn’t be the most shocking thing in the world to see the team want to give them a chance. 

7 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I think he would have been smarter than everyone with pick 6.   For some reason this seems to not be understood?    A mock is a mock... what Howie would do at 6 is totally different.   Really I had a hard time seeing them go WR or TE at 6.  Just not their way of doing things.  WE have years of seeing this play out... each year " but this year is different" 

Besides... we seem to overlook another fact.... as Fulgham and Reagor said... " I ain't worried about the offense ...at all"     Maybe they love their WRs.... and like many on here... Wentz was the problem.  Who knows.  But the trade back to me ... first thing I thought, they never wanted to take a skill guy at 6.  

IDK Joe a top CB at 6 still would have made some sense,but they can do that at 12,so for me that had to be part of the decision. I think they are tired of not having a secondary(as evidenced by our 2 S pick-ups)

9 minutes ago, stine said:

  Almost 50 % that a 12th pick MIGHT be as good or better than the 6th?

 

     Sorry Joe. I just don't buy it. You can say whatever you think, but the reality is we have Howie doing the draft. Not Baltimore or a team with a proven track record. For Howie, he need the 6th to have a great shot of grabbing a absolute HOF potential Player. He won't do it at 12. I have no faith.

  WE can go on and on but neither of us will change their stance. Let's see what happens. I hope you are right and we grab a solid player. I just feel most of us will be shaking their head....

We diagree mostly that Howie was going to draft Chase or Pitts.   that is what we really disagree on.   The rest... pretty much I agree.     But I just don;t like approaching the NFL draft like it's the NBA.   We have issues here, it's more than " drafting pro bowlers or hall of famers"    It's the overall lack of quantity of solid players over the recent years.     No pro bowlers after Wentz... ok, but only 2 guys on the roster from 2014 to 2017?  And really will be only 1 from 2013 .... that's pretty bad, creates way more holes than simply missing a HOF level player.   

To be honest... if the scenario goes..... we trade next year's 1st rounder from Miami for a player..... my guess is that player will be better than both pick 6 or pick 12.  He will be established as compared to unknown.   

Like people obsess over Jefferson..... well to me Diggs was always the move.   Look at his impact on the team.   Buffalo and their QB were totally different.... look at Minn, were they better with Jefferson or Diggs?   I had Jefferson in fantasy, seemed all year he lit it up in garbage time after they fell behind.  Diggs was like the opposite, he always started out with nice stats as the Buffalo got their leads.  Way more meaningful.     Well, to me that is what you get if you end up trading that pick for a player.   A nice 25-26 year old established player to fill in a big hole.  Maybe it's DL, OL, CB ...who knows.    

7 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

I mean we have invested quite a bit at WR and got a coach who apparently knows WRs... Got basically 4 guys going into year two with Reagor/Hightower/Watkins/Fulgham wouldn’t be the most shocking thing in the world to see the team want to give them a chance. 

Yeah a reason why I am in no rush. Lots of WR' s in 4 and even 5 with talent. let's see how the new staff helps these guys. I'm not giving a raw diamond to cut to first time diamond cutters lol. Let's see if they can make "mediocre" players excel .THEN I will know I can really invest in some top players

7 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

We diagree mostly that Howie was going to draft Chase or Pitts.   that is what we really disagree on.   The rest... pretty much I agree.     But I just don;t like approaching the NFL draft like it's the NBA.   We have issues here, it's more than " drafting pro bowlers or hall of famers"    It's the overall lack of quantity of solid players over the recent years.     No pro bowlers after Wentz... ok, but only 2 guys on the roster from 2014 to 2017?  And really will be only 1 from 2013 .... that's pretty bad, creates way more holes than simply missing a HOF level player.   

To be honest... if the scenario goes..... we trade next year's 1st rounder from Miami for a player..... my guess is that player will be better than both pick 6 or pick 12.  He will be established as compared to unknown.   

Like people obsess over Jefferson..... well to me Diggs was always the move.   Look at his impact on the team.   Buffalo and their QB were totally different.... look at Minn, were they better with Jefferson or Diggs?   I had Jefferson in fantasy, seemed all year he lit it up in garbage time after they fell behind.  Diggs was like the opposite, he always started out with nice stats as the Buffalo got their leads.  Way more meaningful.     Well, to me that is what you get if you end up trading that pick for a player.   A nice 25-26 year old established player to fill in a big hole.  Maybe it's DL, OL, CB ...who knows.    

Yeah, but we need to start drafting solid. Sometimes we hit on a guy, other times we miss pretty badly. Even guys who strike out alot get a hit once in awhile,but don't count on home runs. Give me guys that can all get base hits and I will find my homerun hitter later. Pitts can do both and that's why I wanted him lol

Oops. PFF just came out with their mock and they have Horn also. maybe they saw my mock I made right after we made the trade lol

10 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Like people obsess over Jefferson..... well to me Diggs was always the move.

Yeah we tried that with Djax and Alshon,all while failing to get a TOP rookie. I hope Reagor proves himself this year. I wasn't impressed last year

3 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I hope Reagor proves himself this year. I wasn't impressed last year

Definitely wasn’t the best was plenty of missed opportunities by him and the QBs last year. But should only be able to go up 

Hightower was another one lots of missed opportunities seemed to get open deep but either dropped the ball or the QBs couldn’t hit him

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-top-100-big-board They have Pitts as the 5th best player on the board

8 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Definitely wasn’t the best was plenty of missed opportunities by him and the QBs last year. But should only be able to go up 

Hightower was another one lots of missed opportunities seemed to get open deep but either dropped the ball or the QBs couldn’t hit him

Hurts seems to want to listen to the coaches. I think Wentz got arrogant and called too many audibles(maybe because he was PO'd we drafted Hurts lol). SO hopefully Hurts will improve if he follows directions. I'm really adamant now about getting Myers in here. No matter what else happens you need that anchor on the Oline

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2021/kadarius-toney    Similar player to Pitts. I would not be upset if we moved a little in 2 to take him(projected late 1 early 2)