3 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Well we THOUGHT we had those guys in place,now they are gone and we have to start all over. SO,I wouldnt want Diggs here now,it would be a waste of money

Who was in place?   Alshon and DeSean were not " in place "  neither is a Harris.   Holding a spot is not " in place"   especially if it's mediocre level.   Much different than a top player in their prime.  

Are you playing to win...or be ok.  Are you playing to have a roster spot filled for years...or just this year?   Very different.   

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

And again...those 2 are not the player Diggs is now...nor project to be here past last year.

It's why I don't let signing a player like Harris effect any long term plans at safety.   Neither does Flacco at QB...etc. 

Because... what exactly were you counting on from DeSean or Alshon... " to hold down the fort "   wtf is that.  Holding down the fort with mediocrity doesn't do anything.  Either have a vet in place that can be there long term,or have a rookie with potential.  You get Diggs last year, insert him as #1 WR for the next 5 years... then you play the young guys or... have the older guys hold down the fort as #2 types.   

If Diggs was so hot why did they trade him?(OH they had another guy too) and at least some semblance of a competent QB. I have zero clue if Djax/Alshon would have been "mediocre" first he/they wasn't on the field, second our QB stunk up the place. Hard to judge that

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Who was in place?   Alshon and DeSean were not " in place "  neither is a Harris.   Holding a spot is not " in place"   especially if it's mediocre level.   Much different than a top player in their prime.  

Are you playing to win...or be ok.  Are you playing to have a roster spot filled for years...or just this year?   Very different.   

So you are saying a healthy Djax and Alshon would fail with say TB? I think they would do fine

4 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Who was in place?   Alshon and DeSean were not " in place "  neither is a Harris.   Holding a spot is not " in place"   especially if it's mediocre level.   Much different than a top player in their prime.  

Are you playing to win...or be ok.  Are you playing to have a roster spot filled for years...or just this year?   Very different.   

Someone has to hold those spots. Be wonderful if we could fill every spot with a top young talent.; Great dream,-not happening 

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

If Diggs was so hot why did they trade him?(OH they had another guy too) and at least some semblance of a competent QB. I have zero clue if Djax/Alshon would have been "mediocre" first he/they wasn't on the field, second our QB stunk up the place. Hard to judge that

He wanted out.  $$ reason for them...they also got a 1st round pick.   Which is exactly what the trade sets up for us to do next year.  We could get a Diggs, Peters, Cooper type...the safety the Steelers got from Miami last year....etc.  and we can still draft a player.

2009 first round.. Maclin and Jason Peters.  

3 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

So you are saying a healthy Djax and Alshon would fail with say TB? I think they would do fine

I'm saying there is no doubt about a player like Diggs and you lock him up long term to pair with your 27 year old QB.    Regardless if the other 2 would do ok...they are not long term solutions.  I'm saying when you have a QB at age 27  ..who just broke franchise record playing with practice squad guys, get him a #1 to play with for 5 years.   Different than " hoping " for a year.  Because let's say either of DeSean or Alshon did ok last year... do you think it solves the issue for 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024...etc.   You fill the hole, not put a temp band aid on it.  

 

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

$$ reason for them

I'm glad we didn't re-sign Djax or Alshon,it kind of forces you to move on. I'm not looking for Diggs,or Coop or anyone else.They would be a waste of money at this time. VIkes drafted Diggs  and DEVELOPED HIM. That makes things alot easier because you have players of VALUE and we have not,or cannot develop players at the skill positions. We are good with TE's and some linemen, so we are constantly having to hit FA because we can't bring anyone up through the ranks

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

I'm saying there is no doubt about a player like Diggs and you lock him up long term to pair with your 27 year old QB.    Regardless if the other 2 would do ok...they are not long term solutions.  I'm saying when you have a QB at age 27  ..who just broke franchise record playing with practice squad guys, get him a #1 to play with for 5 years.   Different than " hoping " for a year.  Because let's say either of DeSean or Alshon did ok last year... do you think it solves the issue for 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024...etc.   You fill the hole, not put a temp band aid on it.  

 

See last post

4 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Someone has to hold those spots. Be wonderful if we could fill every spot with a top young talent.; Great dream,-not happening 

But if it's sitting in your lap... the choice of 25-27 year old stud vs the hopefully above average 30 plus guy... should be easy decision.   

Vikes also drafted JJ and are DEVELOPING HIM

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

But if it's sitting in your lap... the choice of 25-27 year old stud vs the hopefully above average 30 plus guy... should be easy decision.   

Who can we afford that fits that role???? To sign long term?

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I'm glad we didn't re-sign Djax or Alshon,it kind of forces you to move on. I'm not looking for Diggs,or Coop or anyone else.They would be a waste of money at this time. VIkes drafted Diggs  and DEVELOPED HIM. That makes things alot easier because you have players of VALUE and we have not,or cannot develop players at the skill positions. We are good with TE's and some linemen, so we are constantly having to hit FA because we can't bring anyone up through the ranks

See last post

Correct... Diggs was already developed,  so makes sense to have gotten him last year instead of Reagor.  Especially when looking at the QB situation last year.

Now this year,  we go young, but I'm saying next year, we can trade a #1 pick to get the " already developed player.  

SO the Vikes got a nice deal for Diggs,turned right around and are developing the next man up(JJ) We cant do that. That's alot of our issues. maybe the new staff can IDK

2 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Vikes also drafted JJ and are DEVELOPING HIM

Who can we afford that fits that role???? To sign long term?

Last year we could have signed Diggs instead of Hargrave . 

This year we don't make that move.. the move is there for us next year if the situation arises.  It's a reason why the trade down is good. 

5 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Correct... Diggs was already developed,  so makes sense to have gotten him last year instead of Reagor.  Especially when looking at the QB situation last year.

Now this year,  we go young, but I'm saying next year, we can trade a #1 pick to get the " already developed player.  

If we got Diggs last year it would have been a waste with what happened. hard to predict the future,but looking back Diggs would have died on the vine here and would be demanding a trade thus providing us with yet another cap loss lol

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

SO the Vikes got a nie deal for Diggs,turned right around and are developing the next man up(JJ) We cant do that. That's alot of our issues. maybe the new staff can IDK

But we differ because 91.7% of being a fan for you is draft.   Diggs is better than JJ... maybe JJ had his good rookie year because nobody game planned for him.  He had nice stats toward the end of games that they were losing.   Who knows.  I don't really care... I just look at if the player is good, the draft issue is irrelevant.  Either you have a guy in there long term or you don't.  The safest bet is the young free agent, not the unknown college player.  

We need to be the team acquiring players these next few years.  Draft this year, but by all means necessary after this year.   

As for Minn...congrats on " developing " ...the goal should be to win...not develop so that other organizations take those people away and actually win.     

Who does New England develop?   Idk,  but they have 6 SBs in the last 20 years.  

RE-trade back. Was thinking about this some,and the reasoning that went into it. I believe they WANT Pitts. I also believe they wanted more picks in the deep draft(at skill positions). They also understand they can make Ertz play another year,and he will need to do well if he wants traded(or re-signed by us) And so,I believe the decision was made that having Ertz(as disgruntled as he may be) covers the possible loss of Pitts. In that light,I can understand the trade back,however I am not happy we p[laced 2 division rivals ahead of us. So we shall see if this decision was good or bad

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Diggs is better than JJ

Better? JJ has ONE year in, a bit early to make that claim isn't it? Also JJ costs peanuts in comparison

5 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

But we differ because 91.7% of being a fan for you is draft.   Diggs is better than JJ... maybe JJ had his good rookie year because nobody game planned for him.  He had nice stats toward the end of games that they were losing.   Who knows.  I don't really care... I just look at if the player is good, the draft issue is irrelevant.  Either you have a guy in there long term or you don't.  The safest bet is the young free agent, not the unknown college player.  

We need to be the team acquiring players these next few years.  Draft this year, but by all means necessary after this year.   

As for Minn...congrats on " developing " ...the goal should be to win...not develop so that other organizations take those people away and actually win.     

Who does New England develop?   Idk,  but they have 6 SBs in the last 20 years.  

Guys like Garapolo and no name RB's on noones radar who they make effective. Then they developed some pretty nice slot receivers if I recall (lol) and they do all that with no top 10 picks in years. Thats pretty impressive no?

6 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

If we got Diggs last year it would have been a waste with what happened. hard to predict the future,but looking back Diggs would have died on the vine here and would be demanding a trade thus providing us with yet another cap loss lol

I don't think so... and I think that gets made clear after watching Indy this year. You give Wentz a Diggs, last year doesn't happen.  And regardless of result,  you know you have it locked in for years.   You want out if your Wentz because the situation sucks here, no future building blocks,  just hope that players can work out.  Much different than if you had a 26 year old Diggs locked up.  

But that was last year's mistake.  Looking forward...if we nail down another franchise QB any time soon,  I'm locking in a #1 weapon for him ASAP.  The rest we can figure out.  Much easier to find supporting cast than it is core studs.

4 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

the goal should be to win...not develop

If you're good you can do BOTH lol(I call it 'the pipeline") We have done this with TE's time and again,but thats it

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I don't think so... and I think that gets made clear after watching Indy this year. You give Wentz a Diggs, last year doesn't happen.  And regardless of result,  you know you have it locked in for years.   You want out if your Wentz because the situation sucks here, no future building blocks,  just hope that players can work out.  Much different than if you had a 26 year old Diggs locked up.  

But that was last year's mistake.  Looking forward...if we nail down another franchise QB any time soon,  I'm locking in a #1 weapon for him ASAP.  The rest we can figure out.  Much easier to find supporting cast than it is core studs.

SO you've paid HUGE money for Diggs to suffer last year and probably THIS year in the HOPES you find a QB who can throw to him? Thats 2 years of wasted money(and a now probably disgruntled WR). Timing is everything

Just now, GreenbleedinNC said:

Guys like Garapolo and no name RB's on noones radar who they make effective. They they developed some pretty nice slot receivers if I recall (lol) and they do all that with no top 10 picks in years. Thats pretty impressive no?

Did they develop those guys...  and those guys went on to have a lot of success elsewhere?      New England maximizes those players for themselves in their system.  Not develop for other teams... which is your idea for Diggs and then getting JJ afterward.  

I am not interested in players success or failure after they leave here.  Like we are with our coaches and our GMs.. etc.  Only what they can do here. It's not a minor league system with years to develop. Look at Mailata... he will be a free agent already if we don't lock him up.   There is the developmental system.  You do the work, another team gets the finished product.

3 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I'm locking in a #1 weapon for him ASAP.

And with the loot(or lack thereof) I have I am drafting TOP WR's in the hopes of finding that #1 WR. Once I get a competent QB in here then I can look to FA for the "win now" but we are too far away from that

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

SO you've paid HUGE money for Diggs to suffer last year and probably THIS year in the HOPES you find a QB who can throw to him? Thats 2 years of wasted money(and a now probably disgruntled WR). Timing is everything

I don't pay Hargrave... it's the better decision for the team both long and short term.  You also discount the effect Diggs would have on every other weapon in the offense.  All those guys would benefit from that.  So it could have snowballed.  Maybe Fulgham continues to do well because the defense can't key on him?  Maybe the QB gets rid of the ball faster because a WR actually gets open that he trusts? Maybe some YAC for a change? 

You seem to think all this for a guy like Pitts, but not an established pro?   Why is that? 

5 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

New England maximizes those players for themselves in their system

Sure isnt that the idea to develop players for YOUR team? Isn't that a coaches job? I dont care if other teams want them or not,I did my job and developed the players I was given for MY team,. Maybe we should try it sometime

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I don't pay Hargrave... it's the better decision for the team both long and short term.  You also discount the effect Diggs would have on every other weapon in the offense.  All those guys would benefit from that.  So it could have snowballed.  Maybe Fulgham continues to do well because the defense can't key on him?  Maybe the QB gets rid of the ball faster because a WR actually gets open that he trusts? Maybe some YAC for a change? 

You seem to think all this for a guy like Pitts, but not an established pro?   Why is that? 

Because I have no loot for a FA of Diggs caliber, so whats the next best thing to do????(BTW we were still paying Wentz then too)

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

And with the loot(or lack thereof) I have I am drafting TOP WR's in the hopes of finding that #1 WR. Once I get a competent QB in here then I can look to FA for the "win now" but we are too far away from that

Correct...like I said, this was a move for last year...and possibly in the future...which we now have an extra pick to use.   Which doesn't have to be WR... its why I keep using Peters as an example.  Maybe even DL...who knows?