6 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

The only problem with Cox is that he played the coverage LB spot, and not the Mike. Browning, for example, really struggled at the Mike, so while Cox may be fine there, it's a guessing game if he could do it.

I would take a chance on Dylan Moses in the third. He is a pure Mike, and if he stays healthy, is a potential pro bowl player. His injury history is a concern, but I think he is worth a roll of the dice.

The issue is that all of the top Mike LB prospects - Davis, Bolton, Moses, Collins - have question marks. So regardless of who you draft, it's a risk. But all have pretty high ceilings as well.

Regardless, we need a Mike LB. Singleton is a stopgap at the position. I don't see Edwards as being anything more than a backup, which is fine. He's the Nate Herbig of the defense. But they need to find a Brandon Brooks.

Point taken, however Cox had major success in Dakota. Up and  changed teams after 3 years of "familiarity", went to LSU and didn't miss a beat going to the better SEC league. I think guys like that can be trained for any spot. There was zero fall off going to a completely new team. Do you want a "pure Mike" or a guy you can fit into different schemes? Players are more hybrids now and asked to do multiple tasks, so for me Cox would be a guy I could take a shot with

7 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-cornerback-rankings 

Surprised Stokes isn't on there.

Newsome is a guy they should take if they trade back in round one to the early 20s. He is a guy you draft a few spots too early rather than risk not getting him.

In an ideal world, a QB falls to 12 that the Bears really want, and they trade up with us to grab him.

Newsome, Zaven Collins and Dyami Brown would be a great start to the draft.

5 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Surprised Stokes isn't on there.

Newsome is a guy they should take if they trade back in round one to the early 20s. He is a guy you draft a few spots too early rather than risk not getting him.

In an ideal world, a QB falls to 12 that the Bears really want, and they trade up with us to grab him.

Newsome, Zaven Collins and Dyami Brown would be a great start to the draft.

Yeah I think Newsome is being underrated. I like Horn or him for us, either would be a shot in the arm at CB. I really can't see alof of difference between him and Horn and I think they should be closer together on draft day(they have him ranked above Farley who is supposedly going early) SO IDK maybe Newsome at 12 is not the reach it seems to be

51 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Bolton is a little undersized. If I had my choice, I would take the other ones since they have more length. But he is better than what we have.

Bolton is a beast! Would love to get that guy. Hard to pass on him at 37. Would be amistake

Could we do something off the wall and take CB's BTB in 1,2 HAHAHA OH MAN

48 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I would take Paye over Barmore JMO

I’m just not feeling Paye. Seems like he maxed out. I like Ojulari. But Barmore feels pretty safe. Adding a DT in the rotation would be real easy also.

58 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Depends whos rank list you believe. The "consensus" board(300 top boards) show him as the #1 DT at 26. Higher and lower depending on the BB, but thats the composite average

Good to know. Seems like these mockers are semi clueless though. I could easily see a guy that is clean moving up some. But I tend to agree and want to be greedy and trade back a little before taking him. If we went that route

17 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Bolton is a beast! Would love to get that guy. Hard to pass on him at 37. Would be amistake

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/2021-nfl-draft-scouting-report--lb-nick-bolton at 37,or is Cox more valuable later?

This is a tough draft for me. I am much better with WR's and RB scouting than I am with defense, so I am trying to learn and become more adept at D picks. In the meantime, I will defer to you guys because what I am better at is something we will probably put off. That being said, I am trying to identify those round 3,4,5 offensive guys that would be worth taking. So you guys hammer our pick 12 and 37(or maybe as Joe said 15,37 and 46 and see if y'all can reach an agreement(gl there HAHA). I see a WR pick at 70. I am sticking with Tylan Wallace at 70 for the moment,other wise I see D through pick 84

WR's- Wallace(Ok st) at 70, Grimes(FL) at 224.  My RB pick is Herbert(VT) or Patterson(Buffalo) at 143 and I like Yeboah as a TE prospect at 188

20 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I’m just not feeling Paye. Seems like he maxed out. I like Ojulari. But Barmore feels pretty safe. Adding a DT in the rotation would be real easy also.

IDK I think Togai would be fine at 84 on the DT front. I just want to avoid a reach at DT. 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/tommy-togiai-nfl-draft-player-profile-ohio-state-running-back/  

10 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

After a bit of effort,here's what I came up with at 15. LMK your thoughts    1-15 Paye-Edge-Michigan   2-37-Bolton-LB-Miss    3-46-Tyson Campbell-CB-Georgia(I think he has a higher upside than Stokes who is also available around here)  3-70 Tylan Wallace-WR -Okla st  3-84-Tommy Togai-DL-OSU 4-123 Kendrick Green-IOL- Illinois  5-143-Khalil Herbert-RB-VT  6-188- Kenny Yeboah-TE-Miss  6-223- Jamie Newman-QB-Wake  6-224- Trevon Grimes-WR-FL   7-233- Mustafa Johnson-DL-Colorado   2-238-Josh Ball-OT-Marshall(and yeah I would be fine with this) One could easily swtich CB to 2 and LB to 3,it's just my choice of how I did it

Ok... now for you here... let's keep everything the same from pick 70 down.  Just focus on the first move and compare options 

1. Pitts ( trade up) 

2. Horn , Bolton.   ( stay at 12)

3.  Paye, Bolton, Campbell. ( trade down) 

For a 4 win team that needs a lot of holes filled for beyond 2021, do you like 1, 2 or 3 better?  

Now forget the numbers/ pick slots.  If you had Paye , Bolton and Campbell. It's the Monday after draft weekend, Would you call up the team that drafted Pitts and offer all 3 for him?  

Would you offer Campbell and Paye for Horn?  

The answers to these 2 questions are ultimately what matters.   Not % of success at where guys were drafted, but specific players in the moment.  

I don't know what the right answer is. IMO , this year I like taking the 3 players for 2 reasons. 

  1. I think we need to start building and want more young solid prospects.    2.  I really think the Eagles would take a Paye type before Horn at 12 anyway.  I also think they prefer a Paye over a Pitts...   this is due to their value of position ( I think to a fault) over the value of the player.    

You say trading back means Howie has a better shot of making a mistake.   I think he already had a player or players in mind ( non QBs) that he preferred,  and i think it's guys that already seem to be ranked outside the top 10-12 anyway. 

6 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Top DT in round one. Corner round two. Makes plenty of sense and seems ....shall I say...probable 

100 % with this as something the Eagles would do... DT or DE doesn't really matter , then CB round 2.  

And 100% if they do this, why not get some more value in a trade back.  Greed is good! 

We've seen this play out many times,  along with the idea they could have gone QB at 6 ... as BG said all along.       But for some reason the bulk of the conversation is Pitts, WR or CB in round 1?   Even as we moved further back in the range where DL is coming more into value and WR and CB are slipping....  it still seems most are dismissing the tendency of the last couple of decades plus???     

Could the Eagles go WR or CB ...sure, anything is possible.   But how many times do we need to see the same story play out before we realize it's probably going to happen again?   

" But this year it's different" .... again...lol.

So we've talked about BPA, drafting for need... " draft grades"   etc.  

A legit argument ... you have 2 players " graded" equally. You take the player at the position of need.  Very legit and common sense.

Another legit point could be... you have 2 players " graded" equally. You take the player at the position you generally value more. 

Now after observing the Eagles ( and I have been saying this for a while) ... IMO the position of the player is a factor in the " grade "  itself.

2014 being example where the reason for drafting Smith was " we had guys graded equally, tried to trade back,  no offers so we picked Marcus" 

Now we could think that the Eagles just have issues grading players .  They miss on better players at WR for example.    But IMO, Smith being the perfect example.. I think there were players graded higher than Smith on their own merit, but Smith got a bump in the grade, like a curve,   because of his position.  This caused his grade to match the others... and put him in that group, that he never should have been with in the first place. 

Using the number graded as an example.  Let's say that group back in 2014 all had draft grades of 6.2.  I would wager my house,  Smith had something like 5.9 but the fact he was a pass rusher,  he got the extra bump in grade.   I mean,  I remember him being ranked middle 2nd to mid 3rd round.   In our mock draft contest he was a popular pick, because we all thought he was going to be a probable pick for us in round 2.

2010... was Graham ranked higher than Earl Thomas?  The need for safety was there.  Clearly both factors that would lead to drafting Earl Thomas for most organizations. 

The logic on the Graham pick, the Eagles just value the position more.  They got a guy to add to the pass rush rotation , not even a starter.... and had HUGE need at safety, where everything I saw at the time had Earl Thomas ranked ahead of Graham. 

As for now, it's because of this history and the fact we haven't invested anything in first 2 days of the draft since Barnett ... I  can easily see the Eagles having both the " grade" and the desire to pick DL over any WR or CB at 12.  Surely they would trade back and take DL. 

Nothing to do with any draft expertise, I've seen Pitts play a couple games in high school, which is more than I've seen for all of these guys combined in college.  Simply paying attention to Eagles draft history ..for decades since Lurie took over and Kotite was the coach.   This is what they do....and it hasn't changed.  Could it change now...Idk,  but I think good idea for those invested into the draft to spend time looking at DL. 

9 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/03/22/caleb-farley-back-surgery-miss-pro-day   Mash tent pick-pass

AGREED, You never grab an injury prone player in the first round. Just asking for trouble IMO... That being said Howie will do it...

22 minutes ago, stine said:

AGREED, You never grab an injury prone player in the first round. Just asking for trouble IMO... That being said Howie will do it...

Knock on wood, but I don't think he'll take him in the first.  I do think there's a chance he'll be there at 37 and Howie will jump on him there.  

Farley's going to have a full eval and that info will be made available to all teams. He had a combo prob  - herniated L4-L5 and "bulging" L5-S1. He chose to initially only take care of L4-L5 and see if the L5-S1 would subside - it didn't. I had the same prob for yrs, when I turned or bent the wrong way like leaning over a sink, I would be incapacitated. The vertebrae finally shattered and had titanium post and screws put in. No pain since, no lack of mobility, but I'm not a football player. Farley's last op I believe is akin to getting a knee "cleaned out". The problem is there's less of the disc remaining, not that the part bulging out was helping with anything, it's still a loss of that cushioning between the vertebrae. Tiger Woods has had 5 of these - how'd that go? I'm not saying Farley can't go on and have a great career, just giving some info and letting you know that a decision can't be made until teams see those medicals.  

In 2017 we had one of the best OL's, we also avg'd 132 rush ypg - best in the league. Believe we still need another thumper RB as we have enough squigglies. Mid to late rd or FA if we have to. With our injury history, not fully confident in our OL either.

On D, besides secondary, Cox needs more help, preferably another guy who needs to be double teamed.

5 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Would you call up the team that drafted Pitts and offer all 3 for him?  

This really clarifies your point for me, thanks. I never looked at it that way  ^5

10 minutes ago, mjkline1958 said:

In 2017 we had one of the best OL's, we also avg'd 132 rush ypg - best in the league. Believe we still need another thumper RB as we have enough squigglies. Mid to late rd or FA if we have to. With our injury history, not fully confident in our OL either.

On D, besides secondary, Cox needs more help, preferably another guy who needs to be double teamed.

I'm high on Kahlil Herbert or Patterson, both should be in round 5(but dont let that fool you)

5 hours ago, joemas6 said:

So we've talked about BPA, drafting for need... " draft grades"   etc.  

A legit argument ... you have 2 players " graded" equally. You take the player at the position of need.  Very legit and common sense.

Another legit point could be... you have 2 players " graded" equally. You take the player at the position you generally value more. 

Now after observing the Eagles ( and I have been saying this for a while) ... IMO the position of the player is a factor in the " grade "  itself.

2014 being example where the reason for drafting Smith was " we had guys graded equally, tried to trade back,  no offers so we picked Marcus" 

Now we could think that the Eagles just have issues grading players .  They miss on better players at WR for example.    But IMO, Smith being the perfect example.. I think there were players graded higher than Smith on their own merit, but Smith got a bump in the grade, like a curve,   because of his position.  This caused his grade to match the others... and put him in that group, that he never should have been with in the first place. 

Using the number graded as an example.  Let's say that group back in 2014 all had draft grades of 6.2.  I would wager my house,  Smith had something like 5.9 but the fact he was a pass rusher,  he got the extra bump in grade.   I mean,  I remember him being ranked middle 2nd to mid 3rd round.   In our mock draft contest he was a popular pick, because we all thought he was going to be a probable pick for us in round 2.

2010... was Graham ranked higher than Earl Thomas?  The need for safety was there.  Clearly both factors that would lead to drafting Earl Thomas for most organizations. 

The logic on the Graham pick, the Eagles just value the position more.  They got a guy to add to the pass rush rotation , not even a starter.... and had HUGE need at safety, where everything I saw at the time had Earl Thomas ranked ahead of Graham. 

As for now, it's because of this history and the fact we haven't invested anything in first 2 days of the draft since Barnett ... I  can easily see the Eagles having both the " grade" and the desire to pick DL over any WR or CB at 12.  Surely they would trade back and take DL. 

Nothing to do with any draft expertise, I've seen Pitts play a couple games in high school, which is more than I've seen for all of these guys combined in college.  Simply paying attention to Eagles draft history ..for decades since Lurie took over and Kotite was the coach.   This is what they do....and it hasn't changed.  Could it change now...Idk,  but I think good idea for those invested into the draft to spend time looking at DL. 

IMO this is the problem. Someone needs to whack Howie upside da haid and learn how to evaluate your skill positions(although they all require skill you know what I mean). I understand building the lines is important, but they seem to do it by sacrificing other positions CONSISTENTLY(as you said)/ This is what makes me pull my draft hair out. We DID go WR last year(shocking),and we did with Agholor, and I can't say with the trash team we had if the reagor pick was good or not. I fear Howie will look at less than stellar numbers and pull back to more conservative(lineman).Most  from what I see are we really suck at round 1,2 choices.It seems Howie tries to outsmart himself. We do very well with UDFA's and late picks, but those first few are the ones that set your team apart. I think Howie "pretends" to know,but always covers himself in FA's in the secondary and at RB usually. If Howie really wants to be a good drafter,he needs to take some time every year and go with the scouts who scout those position and see what attributes they look for. I'm sure they 'report" to him,but at decision time do you take someone elses advice or your own? And I think that's where the bottleneck lies because Howie may know linemen more than CB's and I believe he THINKS he knows more than he actually does. If Howie would go to pro days(or at least some) he would have a better idea of which CB or LB fits this team on a PERSONAL level, not the advice of others.His gut tell him to take a lineman because those are more familiar to him and I feel the WR picks(really the only round 1 skill positions we've had for awhile) are more out of necessity and relying again on others(maybe Lurie tells him I want a WR in here). So that's what I see. That Howie thinks he knows more than he does,or he is ordered to take a WR in 1 because every year we get the FA secondary players,maybe a LB,maybe a RB because Howie is not comfotable enough with himself to choose those positions over others. Just a point,how long has it been since our round 1 or 2 picks were REAL difference makers?. Solid is good,but you need those stand outs from time to time and those are they guys we are NOT getting. This draft we need to get back to solid,that is understandable and we'd better get it done because next year is setting up for those top difference maker players you need to go into the playoff zone.Once we have a solid team,Howie fails/failed to go get those difference making players,thus we are always solid,but middle of the road. Even bad teams have studs,yet we have zero of those(maybe Ertz and Wentz were) and IMO therein lies the problem. So rebuild,get back to solid and make sure you are set up for next years influx of ,what we all hope to be, STUDS

2 hours ago, time2rock said:

Knock on wood, but I don't think he'll take him in the first.  I do think there's a chance he'll be there at 37 and Howie will jump on him there.  

The Jones re-run lol. Then we'll keep him a few years and let him walk so he can go succeed elsewhere

11 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

The Jones re-run lol. Then we'll keep him a few years and let him walk so he can go succeed elsewhere

So it's not the pick, it's how he was used/coached. He was my pick btw.

38 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

The Jones re-run lol. Then we'll keep him a few years and let him walk so he can go succeed elsewhere

Did he succeed elsewhere? I thought he got hurt again. Only played half the season.