6 hours ago, stine said:

Here is an Article that explored each Eagles sack. There were 65 total. Of the 65, 34 were attributed to the O-Line. so that means that almost half were due to the QB, RB's TE's or scheme/coverage. 21 sacks were directly attributed to the QB's. Either he held onto the ball too long or rolled into the rush. Either way, the QB play had allot to do with the amount of sacks we had. Great QB's like Rodgers, Brady and others never allow that to happen. Either they toss to the Receiver, not waiting for him to be open or they toss the ball away. Wentz would not throw the ball until the receiver was open, which is a rookie mistake. You need to trust your WR's. He did a much better job in 2019, even though most of his WR's never caught a NFL pass before. Anyway, you decide after you read this:

 

https://www.phillyvoice.com/assigning-blame-each-eagles-nfl-leading-65-sacks-allowed-2020/

 

 

 

So as an example when using another team...  because I often think when our fan base looks at the Eagles, they miss the cause vs effect, simply because a lot of times there is an agenda.

In the Superbowl...  Brady was sacked once, Mahomes 3 times.    My question,  were the 3 sacks the issue?  Or were the 50 hurries and QB hits more of an issue?   To me, 3 plays weren't the issue.  We know absolutely 100% that Brady had it way easier than just difference of 2 plays where they got sacked.

Yet... we can analyze the " sacks " vs the Eagles.... but what about all the times BOTH QBs had to run for their lives and tool hits...due to " hurries " from either bad OL play or nobody getting open?

The sacks are a very small % of plays.   If I'm a QB, I drop back 50 times, and know I will get sacked 5, but have 45 clean pockets...I'm good.    But if I get rushed and hit 30 plus times, that's not going to help my play.

I think our OL grade, part of it was run blocking.  Mailata especially,  it's nice to have an LT run block well, but more important if that position can just hold off the pass rush.   

45 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So as an example when using another team...  because I often think when our fan base looks at the Eagles, they miss the cause vs effect, simply because a lot of times there is an agenda.

In the Superbowl...  Brady was sacked once, Mahomes 3 times.    My question,  were the 3 sacks the issue?  Or were the 50 hurries and QB hits more of an issue?   To me, 3 plays weren't the issue.  We know absolutely 100% that Brady had it way easier than just difference of 2 plays where they got sacked.

Yet... we can analyze the " sacks " vs the Eagles.... but what about all the times BOTH QBs had to run for their lives and tool hits...due to " hurries " from either bad OL play or nobody getting open?

The sacks are a very small % of plays.   If I'm a QB, I drop back 50 times, and know I will get sacked 5, but have 45 clean pockets...I'm good.    But if I get rushed and hit 30 plus times, that's not going to help my play.

I think our OL grade, part of it was run blocking.  Mailata especially,  it's nice to have an LT run block well, but more important if that position can just hold off the pass rush.   

  When you hold onto the ball for 3.27 Seconds you are going to be hurried on allot of plays! LMAO!

30 minutes ago, stine said:

  When you hold onto the ball for 3.27 Seconds you are going to be hurried on allot of plays! LMAO!

Not how a hurry is recorded a believe but reality is watching the games pressure was on Wentz well before 3 secs in most the games i watched same for Hurts when he came in.... They both were able to extend some plays which resulted in them holding the ball longer but if your avoiding pressure or trying to can’t keep your eyes down field to find a WR. 
 

It’s football it’s a team sport can’t put blame on any one person plenty of blame all around for the 2020 Eagles 

2 hours ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Think you are over valuing Ertz we couldn’t get our asking price of a reported a 3rd for him.... Don’t see that valuing increasing. If we are valuing Ertz I’d look at him as = to at best a 5th rounder 

Not saying I overvalue him,but as trade could make a difference as to what draft capital we give up

I'm done with the "what went wrong in 2020". Everyone is gone now (except Howie). A whole new set of characters to blame in 2021 and beyond,so I will begin focusing on who I can blame game 1

Change this to "the blame game"

Adam Schefter on Twitter: "Carolina Panthers have had conversations with other teams about potentially trading back in the draft from pick No. 8, per source. There are all sorts of ongoing trade conversations between teams, let’s see what next week brings." / Twitter

84 and 150 would likely get this done for us. I would consider paying it if Surtain were on the board.

So ESPN draft predictor says the twelfth pick is between Patrick Surtain, Jaycee Horn, DeVonte Smith, Jayden Waddle, Slater and Parsons. I’d add in Barmore, Paye and Ojulari. They could have a third Oline they really love also.

2 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So ESPN draft predictor says the twelfth pick is between Patrick Surtain, Jaycee Horn, DeVonte Smith, Jayden Waddle, Slater and Parsons. I’d add in Barmore, Paye and Ojulari. They could have a third Oline they really love also.

Barmore is a reach at 12 IMO. I think he is overrated anyway. Ojulari is also a reach at 12 Not necessary to reach with 11 picks. Normally we have 5-6 so this is like a double draft for us

3 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So ESPN draft predictor says the twelfth pick is between Patrick Surtain, Jaycee Horn, DeVonte Smith, Jayden Waddle, Slater and Parsons. I’d add in Barmore, Paye and Ojulari. They could have a third Oline they really love also.

Give me Surtain or Horn from that list.  Third is likely Smith for me.  Parsons would be a great choice but is unrealistic IMO considering this regime.  Don’t know exactly why but don’t have much interest in Waddle even though many seem to like him and plenty of sites actually rate him higher than Smith.  I’d be OK with Paye.  I wouldn’t be thrilled with Ojulari but would accept it and do think either he or Phillips could be a Howie type pick.  

Add the Cowboys to the teams interested in moving back.

Cowboys news: Stephen Jones says the Cowboys are getting preliminary calls about draft trades - Blogging The Boys

I think this year the consensus is that there are three really good non-qb players - Pitts, Sewell and Chase, and then a bunch of guys who are just okay (and people seem to be cooling on Sewell as well.) So the thinking is, why spend a top 10 pick on a guy who might be okay, when some qb needy team will give me a first rounder next year and I can move back and select another so-so player later in the first. Which means Howie was ahead of the curve.

The only problem is that I don't see anyone trading up for a qb. With Carolina out of the mix, the only teams that desperately need a qb are Denver, NE, Washington and Chicago. There will be two qbs available after pick three, and Garappolo will also be on the market in short order as there is no way San Fran is going to pay him this season.

I would also not be surprised to see both Detroit and Carolina stay put and grab qbs, since, both teams have new regimes who have some runway to make moves for the future. And, like I said, once the top two or three non-qbs are gone, the level of prospect goes down. And they can always flip a prospect next year, when the qb class may not be great.  

 

3 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Barmore is a reach at 12 IMO. I think he is overrated anyway. Ojulari is also a reach at 12 Not necessary to reach with 11 picks. Normally we have 5-6 so this is like a double draft for us

So you think it’s bad idea to take either the best Pass Rusher or best inside mobile DT disruptor to help this defense and team. To me.....that’s what I think with those two players. I watched Barmore disruptive offenses at the highest levels. College isn’t Pro’s.....but these two guys look really nasty! I’m not sure who they are a reach over? I have no problem making a case for them.....really after Pitts and Chase go. Which I DO BELIEVE HAPPENS ....before six. That’s how I see it....and have seen it. Why wouldn’t the top teams see it the same? Dallas....is....taking....a.....corner. But is Surtain or Horn so much.....better...than Farley....or either of the Georgia Corners? I think several of you would even make a case for another second round corner ....or two. I kind of liking taking a chance on the Houston kid...attacking if the Edge. I like Twymam and a few others. But to me Barmore and Ojulari are the guys to disrupt up front. If you want run stopping...maybe they aren’t the top guys. 

11 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

IMO height is of lesser importance. With those "underweight" guys, I would check to see if some weight could be added without affecting them too much. Can't do much about the height part. "Intangibles" are big with me. I tend to look at the "other stuff" like cone drill times, those tell me how QUICK they are. Speed is fine, but that quickness in change of direction(cone drill) will give your QB windows to throw in to and of course the other thing we always lack is WR's that have  good YAC stats

Arm length...hand size....sorry but those always matter with the NFL ball.

4 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Add the Cowboys to the teams interested in moving back.

Cowboys news: Stephen Jones says the Cowboys are getting preliminary calls about draft trades - Blogging The Boys

I think this year the consensus is that there are three really good non-qb players - Pitts, Sewell and Chase, and then a bunch of guys who are just okay (and people seem to be cooling on Sewell as well.) So the thinking is, why spend a top 10 pick on a guy who might be okay, when some qb needy team will give me a first rounder next year and I can move back and select another so-so player later in the first. Which means Howie was ahead of the curve.

The only problem is that I don't see anyone trading up for a qb. With Carolina out of the mix, the only teams that desperately need a qb are Denver, NE, Washington and Chicago. There will be two qbs available after pick three, and Garappolo will also be on the market in short order as there is no way San Fran is going to pay him this season.

I would also not be surprised to see both Detroit and Carolina stay put and grab qbs, since, both teams have new regimes who have some runway to make moves for the future. And, like I said, once the top two or three non-qbs are gone, the level of prospect goes down. And they can always flip a prospect next year, when the qb class may not be great.  

 

This really sucks. Same conclusion I came to. Chase ....Pitts....if you aren’t biting on a QB.....otherwise.....hard for me to really prioritize guys from ten....to thirty seven. Good Oline. Good WR. Some good CB. How big is the gap from 12 to...37? 

3 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

This really sucks. Same conclusion I came to. Chase ....Pitts....if you aren’t biting on a QB.....otherwise.....hard for me to really prioritize guys from ten....to thirty seven. Good Oline. Good WR. Some good CB. How big is the gap from 12 to...37? 

Yeah I don't think there's a huge huge difference once you get passed Pitts, Chase and possibly Sewell. There's a lot of players to like, perhaps even really like but not necessarily any stand out stud guys. That's not to say some of them won't on to become stud guys but I don't think there is a huge difference. 

Like Surtain or Horn? I can see an argument for either. Smith or Waddle? Same again. The edge rushers all have their pros but also their cons. 

5 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So you think it’s bad idea to take either the best Pass Rusher or best inside mobile DT disruptor to help this defense and team. To me.....that’s what I think with those two players. I watched Barmore disruptive offenses at the highest levels. College isn’t Pro’s.....but these two guys look really nasty! I’m not sure who they are a reach over? I have no problem making a case for them.....really after Pitts and Chase go. Which I DO BELIEVE HAPPENS ....before six. That’s how I see it....and have seen it. Why wouldn’t the top teams see it the same? Dallas....is....taking....a.....corner. But is Surtain or Horn so much.....better...than Farley....or either of the Georgia Corners? I think several of you would even make a case for another second round corner ....or two. I kind of liking taking a chance on the Houston kid...attacking if the Edge. I like Twymam and a few others. But to me Barmore and Ojulari are the guys to disrupt up front. If you want run stopping...maybe they aren’t the top guys. 

The "best" guy is ranked around 24-27 overall, that is a REACH at 12. If you want value for your picks that is a BAD CHOICE. If Barmore was so good why isnt he ranked higher than Pitts or Chase? (You know like Bosa was?) A BAD draft consists of reaching for players you can get later. I totally want a DT in this draft, but if we dont get offense in here and a competent CB, it wont matter will it? Unless you like those 6-3 games and that's not how this team is built. So I will stick to my guns and say Barmore is a REACH at 12. We can pressure the QB all day, but if he keeps burning us deep, because we have no CB's when we pressure him, does that pressure really amount to anything? Nope, just an excuse to get burned deep(again) Maybe our other high draft pick Barnett can show up for duty? We have 11  picks,there is ZERO need to reach for a player. If we had 4 picks, we may have to, but not with 11. If you want to trade back into the low 20-'s(which is possible) Barmore is fine, but at 12 he is a REACH

9 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Add the Cowboys to the teams interested in moving back.

Cowboys news: Stephen Jones says the Cowboys are getting preliminary calls about draft trades - Blogging The Boys

I think this year the consensus is that there are three really good non-qb players - Pitts, Sewell and Chase, and then a bunch of guys who are just okay (and people seem to be cooling on Sewell as well.) So the thinking is, why spend a top 10 pick on a guy who might be okay, when some qb needy team will give me a first rounder next year and I can move back and select another so-so player later in the first. Which means Howie was ahead of the curve.

The only problem is that I don't see anyone trading up for a qb. With Carolina out of the mix, the only teams that desperately need a qb are Denver, NE, Washington and Chicago. There will be two qbs available after pick three, and Garappolo will also be on the market in short order as there is no way San Fran is going to pay him this season.

I would also not be surprised to see both Detroit and Carolina stay put and grab qbs, since, both teams have new regimes who have some runway to make moves for the future. And, like I said, once the top two or three non-qbs are gone, the level of prospect goes down. And they can always flip a prospect next year, when the qb class may not be great.  

 

Dont see Detroit taking a QB,there is no need for it right now. They will give Goff the weapons, bolster their lines and like us,see where the chips fall. Carolina may unless they get a nice offer to move back with the teams you mention. They seem confident they can turn Darnold into a stud(why they think this I have no clue,but it is what it is)

5 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Arm length...hand size....sorry but those always matter with the NFL ball.

Sure, those are secondary traits. We won't take a WR who is 5'8" and 140 pounds because he has 14 inch hands (well maybe Howie would HAHAHA)

4 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Some good CB. How big is the gap from 12 to...37? 

Not alot, this is why we shouldn't reach for Barmore at 12 see?? I can possibly get Onu at 37. Lots of good players we can get even in round 3, we are just arguing on the order we get them. Like you though I have the bottom 1/2 dialed in as far as players I want(personally, which means ZIP) I am having the most issues with picks 12, 37 and 70 and I hope our scouts are smarter than me

So here is the million dollar question. Which position has the biggest issues? Needs an immediate upgrade? Thats our 12 pick. I'm going to say CB, then pick the next 3. After round 3 (maybe 4) all I want are upside youth injections everywhere(even if those are the same position picks as 1-4)

So just IMO the top 4 are CB, WR, LB(keep dreaming), DL . There are lots of nice LB's in this draft. We don't need the top guy but we DO need an upgrade

After re-signing Howard, I would still like to add a RB and boot some of the other losers. The RB and WR (especially) rooms need cleaned out and upgraded. 2 WR's is not out of the question

14 hours ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Not how a hurry is recorded a believe but reality is watching the games pressure was on Wentz well before 3 secs in most the games i watched same for Hurts when he came in.... They both were able to extend some plays which resulted in them holding the ball longer but if your avoiding pressure or trying to can’t keep your eyes down field to find a WR. 
 

It’s football it’s a team sport can’t put blame on any one person plenty of blame all around for the 2020 Eagles 

BG, I agree totally. I just was making a point Wentz played like crap last year and Joe is saying it had nothing to do with his play, that that was because of everyone else. Yes, the O-Line played poorly. Yes the coach could have helped him. Yes the RB's and TE's could have done a better job. But Wentz played terrible also. His footwork was out of sync. He stared down WR's. He never anticipated, but held on to the ball waiting for them to get open. He held onto the ball too long. To exonerate him for any wrong doing is just ignorant in my opinion. He would have had better stats had the O-Line played better, but nothing approaching the previous year's numbers. Would a PS have made a difference? Most likely, but we cannot use that as an excuse as all other teams had the same situation.

   Listen, I hope Wentz plays lights out this year. Then we will get a first round pick that my be sorely needed.

DraftTek's latest mock (revision #24, posted earlier today):

1 (12) - Surtain

2 (37) - Marshall

3 (70) - Stokes

(I'd be absolutely thrilled with those first 3 picks)

3 (84) - McGrone

(not a bad 4th pick but they do have Elijah Moore going 2 picks later to the Jets and Baron Browning going 2 picks after that to the Rams - I'd much prefer either of those)

4 (123) - Rumph

5 (150) - Trey Hill

6 (189) - Damar Hamlin

6 (224) - Brady White

6 (225) - O'Bryan Goodson

7 (234) -  Calvin Ashley

7 (240) - Jordon Scott

 

17 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

So I am working on a mock using these guys/ Not that it is set in stone,but we have shown interest. I'm still rather surprised this list is so short. IDK we could be looking at a double dip at CB with Samuel and Williams(that would ROCK the Eagles fan base HAHAHA) OH we talked to Meinerz as well who is not on here. he said we have shown the most interest

  I read somewhere that the Eagles rarely draft players they bring in for a workout. This was a few years ago so it may have changed, but the article said it was all smoke screens? Anyone else remember that, or is it my memory that is finally shot......