9 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

NC, everybody has been in lockdown. Rookies report Tuesday I believe. So that gives a chance for them to pass physicals...and physically sign on the dotted line. I think that’s the main holdup with more than half of the rookies across the league.

OK cool,thanks for that info.I thought maybe they would use Esign,but I guess they need to witness the actual.NP we should be fine

8 hours ago, EaglesTD123 said:

I'm ok brother. Doing great. Staying super busy. Very hard to find time in 2 days off trying to keep up with everything for 2 houses. Kinda like shoveling sh!t against the tide lol. When I do get some free time it's spent keeping Mr. Shiny happy lmao. Thanks for thinkin' of me!

Still no i-net. Slow here at smoke shop today so I get more than a minute here - minute there to TRY and keep up. Think I'll change my screen name to EaglesPW'd123. Always gotta be hammering me don't you? lol

No we just gotta keep you an honest man,thats a nasty hard job we do here!!!!! It's so hard, we all have to pitch in to keep you in line 🤣

Reagor is my return man. Day one I see him owning that. Backup the Z for DJax. Meaning we put him in a series here and there. Maybe work on a few specific plays to get him involved. Screens and jet sweeps. Easy stuff to just get the ball in his hands. He’s elusive, has the speed and is tough to bring down...especially for his size. Watching his college film he has much more ability as a complete receiver than this. But I’d assume a learning curve for the pros. He was really dangerous on slants. Also held his ground well on the outside from the sideline. We’ll have to see how quickly defenders respect his speed. The Go route deep should be a quick option. Once defenders get burnt a time or two...then the hitch is setup.

17 hours ago, jsb235 said:

You are aware that we normally play Ertz and Goedert together 70 percent of the time, right? You seem to be unable to process the fact that when Ertz and Goedert are on the field together, they don't play the same position. Goedert plays TE. Ertz almost never plays TE. He almost always plays an Hback or X receiver position. The only time Ertz plays tight end is when Goedert is out of the game, so about 30 percent of the time.

Pretty hard to play them 70 % when Goedert himself played like only 50%????    IDK what you are watching saying Ertz never plays TE.  He lines up on the line when we have one TE.  And when we got 2 TEs on the line, they both play it.  If you do the math, you can probably see Ertz play on the line half if not more than half his snaps.  But yeah, when they are both in, and on plays where one is outside, it's usually Ertz.   JJAW wouldn't run the same plays.  

17 hours ago, jsb235 said:

You are aware that we normally play Ertz and Goedert together 70 percent of the time, right? You seem to be unable to process the fact that when Ertz and Goedert are on the field together, they don't play the same position. Goedert plays TE. Ertz almost never plays TE. He almost always plays an Hback or X receiver position. The only time Ertz plays tight end is when Goedert is out of the game, so about 30 percent of the time.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/snap-counts?year=2019&team=PHI&week=ALL&position=TE&op=Submit&form_build_id=form-zE0ytZa733nrxTgbCtZRvPzy3oVICAF2LUQX7njchJs&form_id=fo_stats_snap_counts_form

The snap count link ..... you can see the total offensive snaps ...1184  .... Ertz played 953 =  80.5%    Goedert played 781 = 66% .... So doing the math ... if you figure Goedert played the 231 snaps that Ertz missed, then they could only play together 550 of the 1184 snaps.   Perkins played 132 snaps himself, if you count him in there, it's probably where they go slightly over the 50% playing the 2 TEs.   With the injuries at WR, it's easy to see why they had to go 2 TEs so much compared to other teams.  

the next link is Ertz profile... you can see 29.8% of the time he lines up in the slot.     Goedert lines up in the slot 21.5 %   So if you do the math... % isn't that much different, but for total # of snaps .... Ertz 284 in the slot compared to Goedert 168.  

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/zach-ertz/#!#current-year

2 hours ago, joemas6 said:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/snap-counts?year=2019&team=PHI&week=ALL&position=TE&op=Submit&form_build_id=form-zE0ytZa733nrxTgbCtZRvPzy3oVICAF2LUQX7njchJs&form_id=fo_stats_snap_counts_form

The snap count link ..... you can see the total offensive snaps ...1184  .... Ertz played 953 =  80.5%    Goedert played 781 = 66% .... So doing the math ... if you figure Goedert played the 231 snaps that Ertz missed, then they could only play together 550 of the 1184 snaps.   Perkins played 132 snaps himself, if you count him in there, it's probably where they go slightly over the 50% playing the 2 TEs.   With the injuries at WR, it's easy to see why they had to go 2 TEs so much compared to other teams.  

the next link is Ertz profile... you can see 29.8% of the time he lines up in the slot.     Goedert lines up in the slot 21.5 %   So if you do the math... % isn't that much different, but for total # of snaps .... Ertz 284 in the slot compared to Goedert 168.  

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/zach-ertz/#!#current-year

Your math is off because it fails to take into account the games that both Ertz and Goedert missed or were limited due to injury. Goedert also didn't play much against Washington in the first game.

If you want a true representation of how our offense will be this year, you have to look at snap counts between weeks 4 (Green Bay) and 16 (Dallas), when both players were healthy.

The amount of time they were on the field together in that stretch is much higher than your estimate, and when they were on the field together, Ertz was almost always out wide or lined up as an Hback. It's easy to see if you watch the games.

6 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Reagor is my return man. Day one I see him owning that. Backup the Z for DJax. Meaning we put him in a series here and there. Maybe work on a few specific plays to get him involved. Screens and jet sweeps. Easy stuff to just get the ball in his hands. He’s elusive, has the speed and is tough to bring down...especially for his size. Watching his college film he has much more ability as a complete receiver than this. But I’d assume a learning curve for the pros. He was really dangerous on slants. Also held his ground well on the outside from the sideline. We’ll have to see how quickly defenders respect his speed. The Go route deep should be a quick option. Once defenders get burnt a time or two...then the hitch is setup.

Disagree.I'm not putting my number one pick on the field as a returner.If all you wanted was a returner you wouldn't have wasted a round 1 pick on him(See Quez).We got him to pull defenses along with Djax,to open up the middle and give Wentz deep weapons(you know what we lacked last year?) At some point we need to toss a rook into the fire,instead of "coddling" them along for 2-3 years.For me,my number one draft pick is a starter(or why get him?) Sure,he will make rook mistakes,we need to prepare for that,but he's not going to get better unless he gets his feet wet(you know like Deebo did?) If Reagor really sucks,thats why we covered with Goodwin.let the kid play,take his licks and learn.BTW he is signed now(Reagor).If I need a sacrificial lamb in the return game I go with Gibson or Quez

6 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Reagor is my return man. Day one I see him owning that. Backup the Z for DJax. Meaning we put him in a series here and there. Maybe work on a few specific plays to get him involved. Screens and jet sweeps. Easy stuff to just get the ball in his hands. He’s elusive, has the speed and is tough to bring down...especially for his size. Watching his college film he has much more ability as a complete receiver than this. But I’d assume a learning curve for the pros. He was really dangerous on slants. Also held his ground well on the outside from the sideline. We’ll have to see how quickly defenders respect his speed. The Go route deep should be a quick option. Once defenders get burnt a time or two...then the hitch is setup.

BTW,if we want to start him in the slot a game or 2, I would be fine with that, put Djax and Goodwin out. As you said "get the ball in his hands". Move him out when he gets his confidence,but as a round 1,no way do I relegate him to a returner role.That's not why we got him and putting him in that role would pretty much say "we don't have confidence in you". Not a great way to start a potential 5 year contract

2 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Your math is off because it fails to take into account the games that both Ertz and Goedert missed or were limited due to injury. Goedert also didn't play much against Washington in the first game.

If you want a true representation of how our offense will be this year, you have to look at snap counts between weeks 4 (Green Bay) and 16 (Dallas), when both players were healthy.

The amount of time they were on the field together in that stretch is much higher than your estimate, and when they were on the field together, Ertz was almost always out wide or lined up as an Hback. It's easy to see if you watch the games.

Ok... you need me to get those for you?

Reagor signed

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2020/7/20/21331145/jalen-reagor-eagles-rookie-contract-nfl-draft-2020-results-training-camp-details-wide-receiver-wr

30 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Ok... you need me to get those for you?

If you want. Or you could just watch the games to see what role Ertz had in the offense when he and Goedert were on the field together and how Perkins replaced him when he missed the Dallas game. I mean, if you want to just argue stats, fine. If you want to learn what actually is happening on the field, I would suggest watching the film. 

Just now, jsb235 said:

If you want. Or you could just watch the games to see what role Ertz had in the offense when he and Goedert were on the field together and how Perkins replaced him when he missed the Dallas game. I mean, if you want to just argue stats, fine. If you want to learn what actually is happening on the field, I would suggest watching the film. 

Nah... I prefer to give you the real #s.  You know facts. 

16 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Nah... I prefer to give you the real #s.  You know facts. 

So what actually happens on the field doesn't matter? Okay, so how many times when Goedert and Ertz were on the field together did Ertz line up as the Hback versus how many times he lined up as a TE?

3 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Your math is off because it fails to take into account the games that both Ertz and Goedert missed or were limited due to injury. Goedert also didn't play much against Washington in the first game.

If you want a true representation of how our offense will be this year, you have to look at snap counts between weeks 4 (Green Bay) and 16 (Dallas), when both players were healthy.

The amount of time they were on the field together in that stretch is much higher than your estimate, and when they were on the field together, Ertz was almost always out wide or lined up as an Hback. It's easy to see if you watch the games.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/snap-counts?year=2019&team=PHI&week=1&position=TE&op=Submit&form_build_id=form-Fob51_sXke61CRi3ZtOmMA6r4D2JsmoWPB-OSlmOgAc&form_id=fo_stats_snap_counts_form

OK,  so again using the actual stats ... NOT MY OPINION.   Let's take a look at the situation.    But first, lets address week 1 where you made your first incorrect assumption ... Goedert played 41 of the 75 offensive snaps.    So the weeks where we need to disregard are weeks 2, 3 where Goedert played 0 and 9 snaps.... and week 17 where Ertz played 0.      

Fact 1 ... in those 3 weeks ... Ertz played ALL 157 snaps during weeks 2 & 3 .... and Goedert played ALL 74 snaps in week 17.     So they were both the TE on full time basis there.     
(My educated assumption)  ... lets assume during the rest of the season that at least one of them was in on every other snap (weeks 4 to 16)  

FACT 2 ....  So taking out weeks 2,3 and 17 here are the snap counts:
EAGLES offense =  953           Ertz  = 796       Goedert =  698 
(My educated assumption based off of one of them always being in the game)  ... lets say Goedert played in all 157 snaps that Ertz sat out.... bringing the possibility of playing WITH ERTZ... down to 541 snaps.   (simple math 698 - 157)       

Conclusion =  Ertz and Goedert combo played 541 of 953 snaps in the 13 games where they both were healthy.   56.7% of the snaps.     (whatever game you watch and I watch, these were the actual numbers ... ie FACTS, not opinions)    

So keep in mind.... they played that combo 56.7%...  and the injuries at WR had to be a factor considering ... out of 1184 snaps... Agholor played the most at 706 (your slot WR)    JJAW played 506, Alshon played 504  ..the top 2 outside WR snap counts... they combine for 1010, 184 less than the total snaps for the team.  DeSean only 67 snaps.   So you could say the 56.7% # was partially due to necessity, just getting healthy players on the field,

BUT, lets take a look at Ertz then.   Ertz played 953 offensive snaps.... 541 of them were with Goedert ... 412 were without.   So who played TE is Ertz was always in the slot?   The answer is ERtz is your #! TE, when it's one TE in the game, it's Ertz.  

Another curious stat.... prior to week 14 ... only 6 offensive snaps were played by another TE ... Ellis.     Starting week 14 is when Perkins was included in the offense.   For weeks 14 -16 ... there were 238 offensive snaps...   Ertz played 208 , Goedert played 190 and Perkins played 74.    Week 17 Goedert played all 74 and Perkins played 58.     By the end of the season you could see how the toll of losing all the WRs effected the snap counts.   This might be your " eye test"  and why you keep assuming higher % of 2 TEs... it was pretty much necessity at the end of the year, but for the bulk of the games where both Ertz and Goedert were healthy ... 56.7 %... which is still extremely high.  

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

So what actually happens on the field doesn't matter? Okay, so how many times when Goedert and Ertz were on the field together did Ertz line up as the Hback versus how many times he lined up as a TE?

So again, I'm not disputing that when the play together that Ertz is the one to line up more on the outside off the line....the point was from the beginning that JJAW could replace Ertz, it's not the case... Goedert would move into the #1 TE... that #1 TE role that was played by Ertz, where he didn't just line up as a WR... he played 43.3% of his snaps without Goedert, where he was the guy who lined up at TE.   Some of the snaps they played together, they wee both TEs lined up on the line.  Ertz is a TE, not a WR.  JJAW is a WR. He wouldn't replace Ertz.   So Ertz lined up 29% of the time in the slot... yes I agree that it was a much higher % on plays where Goedert was on the field with him.  Sure any of the WRs or Perkins could replace Ertz in that small part of his job, but you have to take into consideration the entire snap count and job of the player, there is no way any of the WRs or Perkins replaces Ertz role for the bulk of the snaps.  Goedert would do that, as the #s show.  

38 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

So what actually happens on the field doesn't matter? Okay, so how many times when Goedert and Ertz were on the field together did Ertz line up as the Hback versus how many times he lined up as a TE?

Here are some more interesting facts that might explain things....

Alshon gets hurt week 14.      

In the 10 games prior where both Ertz and Goedert were healthy..... they played together in 381 of 715 snaps.....  53.2%    

In weeks 14 to 16 (no Alshon, Agholor or DeSean) .... they played together in 160 of 238 snaps .... 67.2%          Big difference!  Injuries at WR were a factor.

Add to that Perkins played 74 snaps ... so 234 of 238 snaps were 2 TEs.   I'm sure its not exact as there were probably a few plays where all 3 were on the field, but still.  It shows how the TE was more needed that probably what the normal plans were ... closer to half the snaps.  Even 53.2% was without DeSean and injured Alshon most of the time!  

 

17 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

 there is no way any of the WRs or Perkins replaces Ertz role for the bulk of the snaps.  Goedert would do that, as the #s show.  

So what happened in the Giants game when Ertz was out, Goedert played 100 percent of the snaps and Perkins played 80 percent?

Most of the time Perkins was lined up as the hback. He was literally the replacement for Ertz in the offense, something you are bending over backward to dispute. Just watch the game. You will see how ridiculous you are being.

And the notion that JJAW couldn't do the exact same thing as Perkins is ridiculous. He's already a better blocker than Perkins and is probably a better blocker than Ertz.

2 hours ago, jsb235 said:

So what happened in the Giants game when Ertz was out, Goedert played 100 percent of the snaps and Perkins played 80 percent?

Most of the time Perkins was lined up as the hback. He was literally the replacement for Ertz in the offense, something you are bending over backward to dispute. Just watch the game. You will see how ridiculous you are being.

And the notion that JJAW couldn't do the exact same thing as Perkins is ridiculous. He's already a better blocker than Perkins and is probably a better blocker than Ertz.

You are correct ... due to the injuries as I have shown you ... the 2 TEs went up from 53% to 67%.   That's a huge factor.   Last year was not the group of players and packages that was the norm, nor the goal for this offense.    What you will see when we lose Ertz (if not even while he is here)  is they will get another TE to backup Goedert.  It won't be Perkins or JJAW.    Again, seems like you are missing the point as you are focused on such a small sample size that was during an injury ravaged season where JJAW was the only WR left on the roster from opening day.  The only WR, because that is his position.   

BTW ... blocking well for a WR vs DBs... is different than blocking poorly vs DEs and LBs.   Also, it's not about where a guy lines up... you can put anyone out in the slot, a WR, TE or RB... they will draw different coverage based on what their actual position is.  The defense isn't going to go heavy based upon JJAW being in the slot, they will look at that as a 3 WR set and defend accordingly.  Same with putting Eertz in the backfield, they know he isn't a running option.  Where you line up doesn't dictate these things as much as who is on the field.  

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

You are correct ... due to the injuries as I have shown you ... the 2 TEs went up from 53% to 67%.   That's a huge factor.   Last year was not the group of players and packages that was the norm, nor the goal for this offense.

Well, we will see this year. I am pretty sure Goedert and Ertz are going to see more snaps than any other skill player on offense. What remains to be seen is how they integrate JJAW into the offense.

 

1 hour ago, jsb235 said:

Well, we will see this year. I am pretty sure Goedert and Ertz are going to see more snaps than any other skill player on offense. What remains to be seen is how they integrate JJAW into the offense.

 

Geez I hope not .... that means we will be stuck with a ton of injuries again!   Either that or we don't like our 3 WR sets.    But there could be a good chance being that Alshon will start on PUP... DeSean is who he is ...and Reager being a rookie.  They won't get the normal snaps.     2017 ... great with 3 WRs ... Alshon 927, Agholor 813 and Smith 735 ... Ertz had 778.    better mix with that, but I think our roster dictates this year a similar snap count as last year.    I think we see it closer to the final snap of 56.7% ... if we get 2 TEs for 2/3 of the time, we are in trouble.

9 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Disagree.I'm not putting my number one pick on the field as a returner.If all you wanted was a returner you wouldn't have wasted a round 1 pick on him(See Quez).We got him to pull defenses along with Djax,to open up the middle and give Wentz deep weapons(you know what we lacked last year?) At some point we need to toss a rook into the fire,instead of "coddling" them along for 2-3 years.For me,my number one draft pick is a starter(or why get him?) Sure,he will make rook mistakes,we need to prepare for that,but he's not going to get better unless he gets his feet wet(you know like Deebo did?) If Reagor really sucks,thats why we covered with Goodwin.let the kid play,take his licks and learn.BTW he is signed now(Reagor).If I need a sacrificial lamb in the return game I go with Gibson or Quez

What about the Miracle at the Meadowlands? Return game can be electric! Reagor has shown ELITE return ability. He’s the guy. Pedey already said Reagor is starting out as the second string behind DJax at the Z. Pedey doesn’t play much games with that stuff. I’d take that to the bank. Just get Reagor touches and involved and I’m happy. I’d say the idea is for him to pickup as much as he can from DJax to show him the way. Really jump start the NFL learning curve. Sure it might sacrifice his production early on.....but it’s about the long haul. We need Reagor to be a stud for a decade. I’m fine with a bit of patience. Plenty of touches to go around. I’d also figure DJax missing some time anyway so.....there will be a time to step up.

9 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

BTW,if we want to start him in the slot a game or 2, I would be fine with that, put Djax and Goodwin out. As you said "get the ball in his hands". Move him out when he gets his confidence,but as a round 1,no way do I relegate him to a returner role.That's not why we got him and putting him in that role would pretty much say "we don't have confidence in you". Not a great way to start a potential 5 year contract

Not just sticking him on ST. But going to let him electrify in the return game for sure. Why not? But this have a rookie try and play all these positions never seems very wise. He has the perfect mentor to learn his position very quickly. Let him learn a little. Become comfortable at the Z. He’ll get some special plays designed to get the ball in his hands also. Most think DJax is in his last season here anyway. I’d also venture that most think he will miss time as well. But it’s a truncated offseason. Can’t force everything down these guys throats. How much of a normal rookie offseason has already been missed? This class is behind. Signs are showing it won’t be a full TC or PS. So let’s not expect miracles week one out of these rookies. Keep things realistic and manageable.

The TE position is, and has become tough to define. Many people use different terminologies even. I’ve heard it called the Y, the F, the U, the H.....depending on abilities. Also they flat out line up as a WR at times. I love when we see a matchup nightmare for a team and bring Ertz all the way out by the sideline and isolate the mismatch with LB or S.

 Tony Gonzales is the best TE ever. I don’t remember him really ever blocking. But I’d say he is top ten RECEIVER ever. He was unstoppable!

Now maybe it’s too much to have Reagor doing KO returns. probably just have him on punt return duty. Maybe go with the No Mas plan and let Hightower take KOs. They are such a minimal part of the pro game anymore.

33 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

What about the Miracle at the Meadowlands? Return game can be electric! Reagor has shown ELITE return ability. He’s the guy. Pedey already said Reagor is starting out as the second string behind DJax at the Z. Pedey doesn’t play much games with that stuff. I’d take that to the bank. Just get Reagor touches and involved and I’m happy. I’d say the idea is for him to pickup as much as he can from DJax to show him the way. Really jump start the NFL learning curve. Sure it might sacrifice his production early on.....but it’s about the long haul. We need Reagor to be a stud for a decade. I’m fine with a bit of patience. Plenty of touches to go around. I’d also figure DJax missing some time anyway so.....there will be a time to step up.

Miracle at the Meadowlands was PRE kick rule changes.That change affected the return game BIGLY no??? and also in that span kickers and punters have become ALOT better. OPs for an impactful return game are few and far between.thats why I HATE the new rule.The return game was FUN to watch,they took that away for "safety" reasons and in my view,the game(and fans) suffered for it.also show me ONE college kicker that can kick like an NFL pro.Apples/oranges.'ELite" in the college return game probably won;t equate to the NFL