3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Right... now you get it .... we need 3 ... not just the one to play opposite of Slay.   We don't know that we have any on the roster now that will be NFL quality by the time the Eagles actually get good again.     Why not next year make an assault on the position and get 3?   But 3 that are good, and do it because they are available studs there... either draft or FA.   Not worry about forcing a 2nd round pick where it seems obvious that our DC didn't like any of these guys right?   JBS will tell you that.    If you don't like a player long term, don't force it simply because its a perceived need at the moment.  Fix the problem at a later date.   right now, fix one of your many other problems.

To me... when you can soley focus on one spot like a lot of you are obsessed with CB... that means you are close and fixing that one spot will make a difference in winning something.  The Eagles are not there.   If a better solution to the CB position is there next year, then do it next year.  Very simple concept of how to view the long term situation.  

Otherwise you turn into Cleveland from the past where they keep addressing most urgent needs and sacrifice quality to do it....eventually they keep spinning in circles.  34 years according to GB!

Take a look at that article. The DC wanted Robinson in the 3rd round. Howie trades back 3 picks for a 6th rounder, Robinson is taken by the Giants 1-2 picks later. So, CB was on your board and was a position of need, but you still ignore the board? This is why we won't compete in 2-3 years. Howie cannot draft and refuses the help of the scouts and coaches.

This Eagles team is such an unknown could be 3 years away from being a playoff team could be in contention next year lots of variables. Just needs guys stepping up and making strides 

16 minutes ago, stine said:

 That was the reason there was an argument in the war room Friday. the DC wanted to draft a CB, but Howie traded back and took another player. The CB our DC wanted was drafted by the Giants 2 picks later.... This is because Howie is not listening to the Scouts. That is why we will never compete for the next 5-6 years, let alone 2-3.....

So I think you need to check facts there.   

1.  Look at the reaction from the DC when we selected our 3rd round pick.

2.  The scouts ... wanted the DT that went to the Lions, never was there a mention of wanting that particular CB that the Giants got at 71... but confirmed and absolutely makes sense that a scout would be upset to see a player from the same position go right before you drafted your guy, and you could have had the original guy if you didn't trade down for a 6th round pick!

This obsession with CB is crazy right now.... we don't have a LT of the future, QB is in doubt, the DL is getting old, rookie coaches all over the place ...and yet CB is all you obsess about???   

3 minutes ago, stine said:

Take a look at that article. The DC wanted Robinson in the 3rd round. Howie trades back 3 picks for a 6th rounder, Robinson is taken by the Giants 1-2 picks later. So, CB was on your board and was a position of need, but you still ignore the board? This is why we won't compete in 2-3 years. Howie cannot draft and refuses the help of the scouts and coaches.

Which article?   

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Which article?   

posted the link 20 minutes ago

7 minutes ago, stine said:

Take a look at that article. The DC wanted Robinson in the 3rd round. Howie trades back 3 picks for a 6th rounder, Robinson is taken by the Giants 1-2 picks later. So, CB was on your board and was a position of need, but you still ignore the board? This is why we won't compete in 2-3 years. Howie cannot draft and refuses the help of the scouts and coaches.

 

2 minutes ago, stine said:

posted the link 20 minutes ago

From Reuban Frank?   Never could read on there where it specifically said the DC wanted the CB the Giants drafted.  It said he was there, and the reporter seems to have wanted the CB... didn't see where it specifically said the DC wanted that guy?    However, here is the reaction from the DC after we selected Williams in round 3.   you judge for yourself.  

8 minutes ago, stine said:

Take a look at that article. The DC wanted Robinson in the 3rd round. Howie trades back 3 picks for a 6th rounder, Robinson is taken by the Giants 1-2 picks later. So, CB was on your board and was a position of need, but you still ignore the board? This is why we won't compete in 2-3 years. Howie cannot draft and refuses the help of the scouts and coaches.

There was another "report" stating we were targeting DT Alim McNeill with our 3rd rd pick and that Howie felt we could drop 3 spots from 70 to 73 and still grab him (he went to Detroit with pick 72).  So it is hard to know which (if any) reports are true.  

IF they did indeed want one of those 2 players (Robinson or McNeill) then it is just another example of Howie trying to get cute thinking he can maneuver and grab another late pick (which in the grand scheme has a high chance of not contributing) rather than just taking the player they wanted.  

There are some veterans available — Bashaud Breeland, Casey Hayward Jr., Steve Nelson, Brian Poole. But at this point there’s a reason they’re still on the street.

I live in Chiefs country so i watch Breeland every Sunday

He's a hard NO

1 minute ago, time2rock said:

There was another "report" stating we were targeting DT Alim McNeill with our 3rd rd pick and that Howie felt we could drop 3 spots from 70 to 73 and still grab him (he went to Detroit with pick 72).  So it is hard to know which (if any) reports are true.  

IF they did indeed want one of those 2 players (Robinson or McNeill) then it is just another example of Howie trying to get cute thinking he can maneuver and grab another late pick (which in the grand scheme has a high chance of not contributing) rather than just taking the player they wanted.  

Right... the other DT absolutely makes the most sense and it was what everyone thought was the issue since the beginning.   It's why to me, I actually liked the 2nd pick the best out of the first 2 days.   Nothing cute... go select your player that you have rated the highest and move on.     The first pick felt forced in trading up and trading back was to cute for an extra 6th.     Just take the player that's there on the board.    This is why if I had to guess... Dickerson ends up being the best player out of the 3 long term... it was the least Howie method of making a pick out of them all 

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Right .... but you are talking about 2 different things.    I'm talking about planning for the position now.     One of the issues to take into consideration in the Mailata vs Dillard battle.

Mailata starts (you then see where it makes sense to trade Dillard right, because he only really offers LT)    ... Mailata then wins the job, plays decent ... a team over pays for him ...and yes , if the Eagles don't want to sign him they won't .... NEVER SAID OTHERWISE .... MY POINT THIS WHOLE TIME.... MAILATA MAY BE LOST IN FREE AGENCY BECAUSE HE SIMPLY PLAYS OK AND THE EAGLES DO NOT WANT TO PAY $10 MIL FOR AN OK LT.         

Now you fast forward a year ... you trade Dillard because Mailata beat him out, and now you don't have Mailata either.    It's a very possible scenario that could happen, and my point was that this gives the incentive to want Dillard to beat our Mailata for LT.   I think that is where the organization is at right now.  

Never mentioned anything about the Eagles being forced to sign Mailata or not, just that he could walk by simply being overpaid by someone else and if we lose Dillard, we will be left with neither next year.  A definite possibility.  

We have 3 possible round I draft picks next year. If we need/want a LOT we will get one . If we keep Hurts  another year on his ROOK contract,that frees up arond 34 million(what you would pay your QB) You can buy some nice players with that,plus the draft

2 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

We have 3 possible round I draft picks next year. If we need/want a LOT we will get one . If we keep Hurts  another year on his ROOK contract,that frees up arond 34 million(what you would pay your QB) You can buy some nice players with that,plus the draft

So with the picks next year... we can trade 3 for a vet QB, use one for LT.   Anything else those picks can do? 

Btw, I agree the picks can obviously be used to get players.   My point, there are needs that are going to pop up that we aren't even thinking about now.   LT for a lot of people,  they think Mailata is hall of fame and locked in for the next decade. It's not the case.     

We can buy a CB and use one of the picks for another one.   Lots of things 

But there are a lot of needs

49 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

BTW... I have nobody inked as anything.... I don't know this McPherson kid from the ex QB name McPherson we signed 20 plus years ago.  Don I believe his name was?  

I think you are going to be in for a real shock,   you are assuming a linear progression with this team on its way back .... I don't see it that way.  You want a CB now... and then think, if we can fill a hole now, it automatically means the team will be better the following year and the year after that, just keep filling the biggest need at the current time.

So let me ask you ....in your all encompassing 2021 Eagles life .... you get your CB now... lets say Asante Jr.  you can have him. in my world I'm giving him to you.   Next year you have Asante Jr. and Darius slay ...  but you cut Dillard this year, Mailata walks in free agency.  

What is your biggest concern ... LT or CB.   I mean does it take a step back losing the LT over gaining the #2 CB, who lets be honest, might not even be a good #2 CB, just that he is better than what you have now.  And now is so important.

IDK... what if in 2022 you draft CB with the first pick... and that guy actually starts the next decade plus, and then you don't give two $hits who held the spot down for 2021, because that guy no longer starts or might not even be on the roster.    Who played CB prior to Troy Vincent and Bobby Taylor?   Did it matter once those guys took over?    How I look at the CB position.  We need 2.  If we get them both next year ... or one next year and the other the following year... and we got them by not forcing a draft pick simply because of the " need for now"  but rather they were simply the best player on the board, like the center from Alabama was their best player on the board.  

I'd rather get a player a year or two later that's a real player, not just want is perceived at filliong the current need for a loser team that we are are the moment to make the loser season seem less of a loser.  

 

What are you looking to find the answer to?    

Joe, CB is ALWAYS a "need" with this team- ALWAYS and ONGOING. Every year we say the same thing "we need a CB and a LB" and every year they ignore them. I view this as the chicken that egg theory that needs to be broken. A) We can't develop CB's B) You can't develop 3rd rate talent into #1 CB's .It's a continuing cycle of(dare I say) stupidity. Now we cleaned out the staff.I will give them(these new people) the chance to show me they can develop players. So how do I do that? I find an "ok" talent and see what this new staff can do. I hope Zech shows enough improvement through this season to where Howie becomes confident enough to draft future CB's because right now,like LB's, he avoids them like the plague unless you get the Jones fall from grace he thinks is the biggest steal in the draft,then he will do it,but not unless he sends everyone the impression he is so great for taking falling players. Howie is a legend in his own mind and will pat himself on the back whenever the chance arises. To hell with the scouts,consensus or fans. Howie drafts for Howie,noone else

27 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

There are some veterans available — Bashaud Breeland, Casey Hayward Jr., Steve Nelson, Brian Poole. But at this point there’s a reason they’re still on the street.

I live in Chiefs country so i watch Breeland every Sunday

He's a hard NO

Not a fan of Breeland either.  Nelson would likely be the best of that bunch but also probably be pretty expensive - don't know if that is something we can do with our cap situation right now.  Conley is also available and thinking he may come cheaper one a 1 year "prove it" type deal.  

6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So with the picks next year... we can trade 3 for a vet QB, use one for LT.   Anything else those picks can do? 

Btw, I agree the picks can obviously be used to get players.   My point, there are needs that are going to pop up that we aren't even thinking about now.   LT for a lot of people,  they think Mailata is hall of fame and locked in for the next decade. It's not the case.     

We can buy a CB and use one of the picks for another one.   Lots of things 

But there are a lot of needs

Well we should be set at WR awhile and hopefully at C for awhile,so now next year we can address something else. If 1/2 of those D guys works,that will help also,but we know Howie wont draft a CB or LB

1 hour ago, Asg 15 said:

Disagree. NOW always matters. Winning always matters.

As soon as you accept losing and a losing culture you becomes what the Browns were for 20 years

Show me a good loser and i'll show you a loser. 

                                                                           Vince Lombardi

Agreed,you have to at least pretend you want to win,or you lose the fan base and the income

51 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Right... now you get it .... we need 3 ... not just the one to play opposite of Slay.   We don't know that we have any on the roster now that will be NFL quality by the time the Eagles actually get good again.     Why not next year make an assault on the position and get 3?   But 3 that are good, and do it because they are available studs there... either draft or FA.   Not worry about forcing a 2nd round pick where it seems obvious that our DC didn't like any of these guys right?   JBS will tell you that.    If you don't like a player long term, don't force it simply because its a perceived need at the moment.  Fix the problem at a later date.   right now, fix one of your many other problems.

To me... when you can soley focus on one spot like a lot of you are obsessed with CB... that means you are close and fixing that one spot will make a difference in winning something.  The Eagles are not there.   If a better solution to the CB position is there next year, then do it next year.  Very simple concept of how to view the long term situation.  

Otherwise you turn into Cleveland from the past where they keep addressing most urgent needs and sacrifice quality to do it....eventually they keep spinning in circles.  34 years according to GB!

Dullaz did this with LB. Since they could not get their CB they wanted,they address LB for the next 5 years anyhow(they got 3 this draft). I was all for taking 2 CB's or 2 WR's(and I explained why). When Dullaz knew they weren't getting their guy,they shifted gears and made sure they had LB covered for the foreseeable future

6 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Joe, CB is ALWAYS a "need" with this team- ALWAYS and ONGOING. Every year we say the same thing "we need a CB and a LB" and every year they ignore them. I view this as the chicken that egg theory that needs to be broken. A) We can't develop CB's B) You can't develop 3rd rate talent into #1 CB's .It's a continuing cycle of(dare I say) stupidity. Now we cleaned out the staff.I will give them(these new people) the chance to show me they can develop players. So how do I do that? I find an "ok" talent and see what this new staff can do. I hope Zech shows enough improvement through this season to where Howie becomes confident enough to draft future CB's because right now,like LB's, he avoids them like the plague unless you get the Jones fall from grace he thinks is the biggest steal in the draft,then he will do it,but not unless he sends everyone the impression he is so great for taking falling players. Howie is a legend in his own mind and will pat himself on the back whenever the chance arises. To hell with the scouts,consensus or fans. Howie drafts for Howie,noone else

What if Surtain fell?  You can guarantee we would have passed on him?   What if next year they absolutely love a guy round 1 or round 2? 

It's not possible they simply really like Dickerson more than any CB that was there at 37?   Not possible?    And it's not possible that most other teams felt the same, and not possible that it's correct?

Like your Cleveland team forcing the Weeden type picks at QB... how many Joe Thomas type picks did they pass up trying to force QB?   

Maybe the need no longer becomes a need if you simply select the right player ... when the time comes.    Not trying to force it.   Instead take someone to help Joe Thomas and wait for a better QB.    

You see what I'm saying.  Simply selecting the position doesn't mean anything if the player doesn't have the ability to get the job done.  Why pass on a better player when you have tons of other needs? 

Heck you wanted to draft another WR! 

7 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Dullaz did this with LB. Since they could not get their CB they wanted,they address LB for the next 5 years anyhow(they got 3 this draft). I was all for taking 2 CB's or 2 WR's(and I explained why). When Dullaz knew they weren't getting their guy,they shifted gears and made sure they had LB covered for the foreseeable future

But you are comparing pick 12 in the draft...the top LB... to the CBs that were there at 37... and you are of the mindset that selecting the CB at 37 is addressing the issue for the next 5 years?   Big assumption on your part.  Obviously they disagree with your assessment of the CBs that were there.

19 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So with the picks next year... we can trade 3 for a vet QB, use one for LT.   Anything else those picks can do? 

Btw, I agree the picks can obviously be used to get players.   My point, there are needs that are going to pop up that we aren't even thinking about now.   LT for a lot of people,  they think Mailata is hall of fame and locked in for the next decade. It's not the case.     

We can buy a CB and use one of the picks for another one.   Lots of things 

But there are a lot of needs

IMO I am not taking a vet QB. It's Hurts or I take my "new" franchise QB(maybe Howell from NC). I use the savings to fill out the team. If Hurts balls out with the llimited players we have and I see a guy who I can build a team around,so be it.if not I have some(a few) pieces in place for my new QB. If you dropped Aaron Rodgers into this team he would die on the vine. Why spend the money? if we're going to be good in 2 3 years I want the QB that came with that

9 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Dullaz did this with LB. Since they could not get their CB they wanted,they address LB for the next 5 years anyhow(they got 3 this draft). I was all for taking 2 CB's or 2 WR's(and I explained why). When Dullaz knew they weren't getting their guy,they shifted gears and made sure they had LB covered for the foreseeable future

Dallas took the best player there.   Very simple concept.  The Eagles did that at 37... just you don't agree he was the best player.  But it absolutely shows BPA because it doesn't address the simple current biggest need.   But there is no arguing that the pick was their highest rated on their board and nothing else.   

To me, this is not their norm.  They admit as much.   The very next pick they lost a couple of players rated higher on their board because of trading down.  Round 3 was the typical Howie move of being too cute. 

3 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

IMO I am not taking a vet QB. It's Hurts or I take my "new" franchise QB(maybe Howell from NC). I use the savings to fill out the team. If Hurts balls out with the llimited players we have and I see a guy who I can build a team around,so be it.if not I have some(a few) pieces in place for my new QB. If you dropped Aaron Rodgers into this team he would die on the vine. Why spend the money? if we're going to be good in 2 3 years I want the QB that came with that

Ok... how many picks does it take to move up to get your QB?

Just now, joemas6 said:

To me, this is not their norm.  They admit as much.   The very next pick they lost a couple of players rated higher on their board because of trading down.  Round 3 was the typical Howie move of being too cute. 

Idk looked to me was preference in DT... Tom wanted the more run stuffing guy McNeil from NC State while Howie looked for the more athletic pass rusher in Williams. 
 

Not sure who was better or worse or which was better for us in a new scheme

I will say McNeil was younger at 20(might turn 21 by the start of the season) but was built like a NT at 6ft 320. Personally speaking probably would have valued the pass rusher more as well. 

2 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Idk looked to me was preference in DT... Tom wanted the more run stuffing guy McNeil from NC State while Howie looked for the more athletic pass rusher in Williams. 
 

Not sure who was better or worse or which was better for us in a new scheme

But Howie admitted that they lost a couple of higher rated guys after the trade.

Didn't seem Howie liked Williams better, just that he was who was available.    Howie wanted that all important 6th round pick, that was more important than securing the player, which in his own words they lost. 

Jeff McLane

 

@Jeff_McLane

 

 

Howie Roseman said on WIP this morning Tom Donahoe wanted NC State DT Alim McNeill when #Eagles traded back for Milton Williams. Can confirm from 2 independent sources that was the case. But he wasn’t only one who wanted McNeill. Donahoe also thought another 6th was needless.