Just now, The Norseman said:

Look, I don't want to Trump at the top of the Republican ticket in 2024.  If these hearings accomplish that then great, but so far they are not.  And even if they did, you are only furthering my point that the internet of them was to destroy political opposition. 

No, not destroy the GOP - Trump and his followers have that task.

This is about an attempted coup. It is addressing HOW it happened and HOW to prevent the next one THE SAME PEOPLE are clearly eager to try.

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I supported the Benghazi investigations just as I support this one. Not all congressional hearings are political theater, and relevant details have already be unearthed by this committee. You'll continue to look the other way while plugging your ears with your fingers for obvious reasons: you're a trumbpot who can't bear to watch his legacy get torn to shreds with each and every hearing.

The first Benghazi investigation was fine, though still far more politically motivated than the Jan 6 Committee. 

10 investigations? That's just going to the well entirely for political ends.

9 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Look, I don't want to Trump at the top of the Republican ticket in 2024.

How detached from reality are you that you think anyone else has a chance to be the GQP nominee besides him?

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  If these hearings accomplish that then great, but so far they are not.  And even if they did, you are only furthering my point that the internet of them was to destroy political opposition.  

As it has already been explained to you, the cultists aren't changing their mind regardless. He could literally murder someone in broad daylight and not lose a single vote from them, just as he predicted. 

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But here's the thing....the hearings aren't changing anyone's opinion in "the court of public opinion" as you suggest.  The polls I'm looking at show that Trump's approval and disapproval ratings have remained largely static despite the hearing's findings. 

 

Not for the cultists, of course not. But there are other swing voters out there who aren't in the cult, but might consider voting for him because apparently gas prices are more important than democracy. They're the ones that might now vote 3rd party or abstain from voting altogether if enough details emerge to paint this horrific maniac as the deceptive, immoral, traitorous scumbag that he is.

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In fact, the latest Forbes poll has him winning against Biden in 2024 by +5 points.  Although, this probably has a lot more to do with Biden's horrendous performance than of Trump's current popularity.  

Can't wait for you to eat this talking point once polls show him trailing again. Shroedinger's trumpbot: Where polls both matter and don't matter simultaneously.  

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So, in my mind. If you're intent was to destroy Trump and stop him from running again, you would have been much better off appointing a special prosecutor to investigate this and bring charges.  At the very least you could have hung him up in legal battles to distract him from a campaign.  

Once again, the best chance to bring some heat down on him from a legal perspective is not what he did related to Jan 6th, it's what he did In Georgia. And these hearings don't preclude any of that from still hapenning.

14 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

 @ Norseman still pretending like he's taking an objective look at the Committee.  Dude, no one cares what you or the other Trump supporters think about the Committee.  It's not for people in the cult.  Believe it, don't believe it, no one cares.  

And honestly, no one cares about you guys generally.  You're politically irrelevant.  You'll support Trump no matter what, it's a foregone conclusion.  No one's after your vote or cares what you think.  The rest of the country has already come to terms with the fact that 35% of the electorate is functionally retarded.

Partisans like us are all politically irrelevant my friend.  But I won't vote for Trump again in the primary or the general election.  I suspect, through conversations with like minded conservatives, that there are many who agree with me.  I don't think he will make it out of the primary. 

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

 

Can't wait for you to eat this talking point once polls show him trailing again. Shroedinger's trumpbot: Where polls both matter and don't matter simultaneously.  

 

Just now, The Norseman said:

Partisans like us are all politically irrelevant my friend.  But I won't vote for Trump again in the primary or the general election.  I suspect, through conversations with like minded conservatives, that there are many who agree with me.  I don't think he will make it out of the primary. 

   

1 hour ago, The Norseman said:

No, its designed to hurt political opponents in order to advance political gain.  I'm examining the merits of the congressional hearing process itself.  The Republicans turned it into a political weapon with Clinton / Lewinsky and the Democrats have now followed suit.  Now, we are in a perpetual cycle of congressional hearings driven by whomever has the majority.  

I know, I know...."but this one is different...it was an INSURRECTION...and TRUMP ORGANIZED IT".  

Let's assume for a second that all that is true.  Do you think that this hearing makes is easier or harder to prosecute Trump or Guliani for example?  

Is that why Republican members of the committee have been in the driver's seat, and a steady stream of Republicans both from within the Trump White House and without have testified and provided insight?

At the end of the day they're finding - from this evidence provided by former trump loyalists among others - a lot of evidence, and all of it is pointing to Trump and a handful of enablers being more terrible and unfit than was speculated even by Trump's political opponents.

1 minute ago, The Norseman said:

Partisans like us are all politically irrelevant my friend.  But I won't vote for Trump again in the primary or the general election.  I suspect, through conversations with like minded conservatives, that there are many who agree with me.  I don't think he will make it out of the primary. 

Not only will he make it out, he won't even face a single challenger.  The party's going to hand it to him and you'll all bend over and enjoy it.  

1 minute ago, VanHammersly said:

 

This is the poll I was referring to.  I don't trust any of these things.  But suffice to say, its close.  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2022/07/01/trump-leads-biden-by-5-points-in-hypothetical-2024-presidential-poll/?sh=67b188b04556

2 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Is that why Republican members of the committee have been in the driver's seat, and a steady stream of Republicans both from within the Trump White House and without have testified and provided insight?

At the end of the day they're finding - from this evidence provided by former trump loyalists among others - a lot of evidence, and all of it is pointing to Trump and a handful of enablers being more terrible and unfit than was speculated even by Trump's political opponents.

Cheney and Kinzinger are clearly a bunch of deep state RINOs according to "conservatives" like Norseman.

2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Not only will he make it out, he won't even face a single challenger.  The party's going to hand it to him and you'll all bend over and enjoy it.  

You better hope they do, because an autistic chimp would beat Biden right now.  

6 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

 

Can't wait for you to eat this talking point once polls show him trailing again. Shroedinger's trumpbot: Where polls both matter and don't matter simultaneously.  

 

 

2 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

This is the poll I was referring to.  I don't trust any of these things.  But suffice to say, its close.  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2022/07/01/trump-leads-biden-by-5-points-in-hypothetical-2024-presidential-poll/?sh=67b188b04556

  

Just now, The Norseman said:

You better hope they do, because an autistic chimp would beat Biden right now.  

Trump is no autistic chimp.

1 minute ago, The Norseman said:

You better hope they do, because an autistic chimp would beat Biden right now.  

Why would anyone hope for either candidate to be incompetent?

JFC. It's not that complicated. The point of these hearings is simple -- to try and turn public opinion in some way. If the DOJ is going to indict a former POTUS, they are going to need public opinion in favor of it in order to try their best to avoid the cries that it is all being done to influence 2024. This is also why Trump wants to announce ASAP -- so he can make the bar for indictment much higher, because the DOJ has historically avoided going after active candidates. So both sides are playing the same game here. 

The investigation by the committee was necessary, thorough and useful. The public hearings, per polling, now have a majority of the country wanting to see Trump indicted. In order to actually indict him, they need to get that number as high as possible. It's the same reason they had the Watergate hearings -- to move public sentiment. 

The committee will give their evidence, which appears rather comprehensive, to the DOJ and they'll make the call. I suspect Garland will chicken out if Trump has announced, but I don't think GA will.

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2022/06/20/majority-of-americans-say-trump-should-be-charged-for-jan--6--a-new-poll-finds

Cheney has knowingly given up her political career .. a women who before January 6 was a thorn in Democrats' sides, a respected member of the Republican House leadership, with unassailable (borderline extreme) conservative bonafides, all at the politically young age of 55 .. because unlike so many she is willing to put her country ahead of her political future... 

And you contend that this is all a political show.

Why? Because acknowledging the truth that's sitting in front of you and reconsidering your view is more painful than pretending this is all just political theater? 

Grow up dude.

I agree that GA is far more likely to press charges than Garland. The case is more straightforward.

But Garland is at risk of setting a worse precedent by NOT indicting. 

Just now, JohnSnowsHair said:

I agree that GA is far more likely to press charges than Garland. The case is more straightforward.

But Garland is at risk of setting a worse precedent by NOT indicting. 

Agreed, but I've seen nothing to make me think Garland has the guts to stomach the blowback from the right if he moves forward. 

As an actual Republican, I'd like nothing more than Trump to be in jail so the party can nominate someone else. Legitimately any other option would smoke Biden in 2024; Trump is the only one who can lose to him.

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

Agreed, but I've seen nothing to make me think Garland has the guts to stomach the blowback from the right if he moves forward. 

As an actual Republican, I'd like nothing more than Trump to be in jail so the party can nominate someone else. Legitimately any other option would smoke Biden in 2024; Trump is the only one who can lose to him.

My impression is that the base is starting to coalesce around the "we still like Trump but he's got too much baggage, and another candidate can get 8 years instead of 4" permission structure to move past Trump.

So they can still pretend Trump is "great" and that they support him, but rationalize that the political realities make someone like DeSantis (who also fugging sucks) a better option.

Of course there's a lot of stupid Trump or bust idiots.

10 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

My impression is that the base is starting to coalesce around the "we still like Trump but he's got too much baggage, and another candidate can get 8 years instead of 4" permission structure to move past Trump.

So they can still pretend Trump is "great" and that they support him, but rationalize that the political realities make someone like DeSantis (who also fugging sucks) a better option.

Of course there's a lot of stupid Trump or bust idiots.

What the base or anyone else in the party doesn't understand is that they have no choice.  They created Frankenstein's monster and now they have to live with it.  They wanted him to be a fighter and never concede and that extends to the primary, except it's infinitely easier for him to rig the primary in his favor.  There's nothing illegal about him putting his people in place within the state party offices so that's exactly what he's done.  They're going to hand him the nod state-by-state without holding a primary.  It probably won't happen in a handful of blue states where being a "Trump Republican" wasn't a popular political calling card, but in the states where it was, he already has it in the bag.

30 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I agree that GA is far more likely to press charges than Garland. The case is more straightforward.

But Garland is at risk of setting a worse precedent by NOT indicting. 

Garland is a feckless coward. He should be replaced. 

32 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

My impression is that the base is starting to coalesce around the "we still like Trump but he's got too much baggage, and another candidate can get 8 years instead of 4" permission structure to move past Trump.

Not seeing it.  I think the only chance is that the senior Repub leaders decide to go after him.  That can only happen post mid-terms.  They would need about a dozen to just all come out at once a couple weeks after the mid-terms and crucify him.  It would be bloody and they would probably need to sacrifice a few of their own at the same time and also push up a couple of candidates at the same time.  If they held the day, they'd end up with someone like Desantis who the idiots can accept.  Of course they'd have to believe they could recover in time to have someone beat a super weak Biden candidacy.

They had a chance to take down Trump back in Jan 2021 and they whiffed.  They have a different sort of opportunity now post hearings but sadly I don't see them taking it.  I'm afraid we will get Trump again in '24 as the Republican nominee.

9 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

What the base or anyone else in the party doesn't understand is that they have no choice.  They created Frankenstein's monster and now they have to live with it.  They wanted him to be a fighter and never concede and that extends to the primary, except it's infinitely easier for him to rig the primary in his favor.  There's nothing illegal about him putting his people in place within the state party offices so that's exactly what he's done.  They're going to hand him the nod state-by-state without holding a primary.  It probably won't happen in a handful of blue states where being a "Trump Republican" wasn't a popular political calling card, but in the states where it was, he already has it in the bag.

Yep, the scenario where he would sit patiently on the sidelines as kingmaker, rather than candidate, has come and gone. He's done nothing but double down on the big lie for almost two years now, so the thought that he would just throw up his hands, shrug his shoulders and say "Ah well, sure it was rigged last time, but time to let someone else try this time" is basically implausible. 

36 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Agreed, but I've seen nothing to make me think Garland has the guts to stomach the blowback from the right if he moves forward. 

As an actual Republican, I'd like nothing more than Trump to be in jail so the party can nominate someone else. Legitimately any other option would smoke Biden in 2024; Trump is the only one who can lose to him.

On this we agree.  If he is guilty of pre-meditating and organizing this then he should be charged and prosecuted.  Would be the best thing for Republicans in 2024. 

My problem with these hearings is that they have no teeth and usually accomplish nothing.  Even Watergate had a special counsel appointed who was feeding the committee investigative material and preserving it's legal virality.  Seems like a big misstep to me that they didn't appoint one if the goal was to bring down some convictions.  

 

7 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

On this we agree.  If he is guilty of pre-meditating and organizing this then he should be charged and prosecuted.  Would be the best thing for Republicans in 2024. 

My problem with these hearings is that they have no teeth and usually accomplish nothing.  Even Watergate had a special counsel appointed who was feeding the committee investigative material and preserving it's legal virality.  Seems like a big misstep to me that they didn't appoint one if the goal was to bring down some convictions.