3 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Oh, Deon Cain is an interesting player.

11 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

per half and teams kill plays with them in every game when there is a bad look in response to a play call.  

So you think it makes him a better coach if he starts wasting a bunch of time outs to help his QB identify when the offense doesn't have an advantageous play call against the defense?

That's on the QB.

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

So you think it makes him a better coach if he starts wasting a bunch of time outs to help his QB identify when the offense doesn't have an advantageous play call against the defense?

That's on the QB.

No one is suggesting he has to do it constantly, but when you have a play that's going to blow up and potentially get your QB hurt if he keeps it, which he did, that might be a good time.

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

24 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I definitely wouldn't put it in those terms.  I think he survived and thrived to a point in college on his athletic ability, and never HAD TO put in the hard study to run a sophisticated offense.  It's quite possible he's a college-only product, the way Johnny Manziel was -- improvise and make plays because their physical tools allowed them to do so.  When they make the final leap to the NFL and everyone is as gifted physically as they are (or more) it's too late for some of them to adapt.  

I wouldn't say it's because they're not smart.  They're being forced way too late to learn the nuances of the position.

Agreed, especially with your last sentence.   Hurts has played out of Shotgun\Pistol his entire career that counts, college and the NFL. He was fine in college calling RPO’s because of his athleticism could usually beat college defenses, he’s getting completely different looks at the NFL level.   
 At Oklahoma and Alabama each game is important and one loss can change an entire season, he was counted on at a really high level of football to win games, or at Alabama, not to lose them, just another reason why their QB’s are sh!t in the NFL.  
 Every place he’s played has maximized his strengths, but how much of his weaknesses have ever been worked on?   Forget RPO’s for a second, if he’s missing 20-25% of his throws because he’s running out of a pocket that isn’t collapsing, then it doesn’t matter if he’s Peyton Manning or Tom Brady calling out the MIKE under center. 
 It’s almost like he needs to spend an entire off season under center, taking 3-5 step drops and being forced to count to 3 and throwing, no matter what happens, if he leaves the area, kick him in the balls. Take the sack, hit em while he throws, whatever it takes, because until he learns this part, he won’t be successful long term. 

1 minute ago, Swoop said:

No one is suggesting he has to do it constantly, but when you have a play that's going to blow up and potentially get your QB hurt if he keeps it, which he did, that might be a good time.

Its not. He will get crushed for horrible time management when he lacks TOs at the end of a half, or game and cant use one, or cant challenge a play. Because people expect him to use them on this complete nonsense because we have a high school QB playing. 

12 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

So hey pot? It's kettle.  If Hurts is a giant black cloud, what it is Sirianni? A basic bootlicking ****? 

 

Most organizations will give their head coach the QB (or QB prospect) of their choosing.  It's easy to forget Sirianni took the job with the belief that Wentz would be the QB -- and under contract for 4 years.  Sirianni ended up inheriting Hurts through circumstances; he wasn't even involved with drafting him.  He's trying to make chicken salad out of chicken s--t, so to speak.

Fans are going to have to play the long game here.  I doubt seriously that Howie or Lurie would jettison this coaching staff after one season.  They've undoubtedly told Sirianni to get the most he can out of Hurts this season and there will be an evaluation of the QB position after the season.   The point was made earlier -- the Eagles drafted Kolb in 2007, Foles in 2012, and Wentz in 2016.  It's a lazy assumption that they will mandate a "dual threat QB" to be the only path forward.  I believe they'll allow Sirianni and Steichen to have heavy input into the next QB drafted (or acquired) to lead the franchise -- just as Doug and Frank wanted Wentz, so Howie traded up to #2 to get him.

Now -- some of us just have to hope that Nick doesn't actually believe Hurts is that guy.

5 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

So you think it makes him a better coach if he starts wasting a bunch of time outs to help his QB identify when the offense doesn't have an advantageous play call against the defense?

That's on the QB.

It would only be a wasted time out if the time out did not fix the problem.  I don't want Sirianni to waste time outs but I think at some point repeated mistakes by your inexperienced QB are repeated mistakes by your inexperienced rookie head coach.  

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Its not. He will get crushed for horrible time management when he lacks TOs at the end of a half, or game and cant use one, or cant challenge a play. Because people expect him to use them on this complete nonsense because we have a high school QB playing. 

Teams use TOs all the time if the play is doomed to fail, but okay.

2 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Teams use TOs all the time if the play is doomed to fail, but okay.

True, but you can't use timeouts in the second half of games because the QB doesn't know how to check into a better play.  Those timeouts are absolutely crucial if a score is needed in the last minute or two of a game -- which is pretty much commonplace circumstance these days.

What was the play in Week 1 that Hurts supposedly checked into?

 

 

Whatever it was Sirianni is lying. 

28 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I'm going to try anyway:

Offense

QB -- it's not good.  Athlete at QB1 who is very limited at reading, anticipating, diagnosing defenses.  Will only go as far as his athleticism.  QB2 is washed, and QB3 was brought in out of the clearance bin, and looks bright and shiny because of the dullness of the other two.  Early draft pick (or FA) needed

WR -- Young group who will make mistakes but lots of potential.  Smith is a keeper, Quez might be a hidden gem, Reagor could have a niche -- need a veteran presence

TE -- Goedert is a top 6 TE, Jackson and Stoll have real potential

OL -- Dickerson, Mailata, Dillard, Driscoll, Seumalo are the immediate future.  Kelce and Lane (hopefully) still can help this season.

RB -- Sanders and Gainwell are a good 1-2 punch.  Now, if the Eagles would only give them more than 1-2 carries.

 

Defense

DT -- Cox and Hargrave are solid starters; I think of Cox like Kelce and Lane in that he's got an expiry date after this season.  Milton Williams and an early draft pick is needed

DE -- Sweat.  Barnett needs to be gone.  Early draft pick needed

LB -- tumbleweeds.  There's nothing there.  Can Avery and Taylor play?  I guess we'll find out.  Early draft pick needed

S -- better than LB (?) Epps can play a bit.  McLeod and Harris need to be upgraded.  Early draft pick needed

CB -- Slay is very good.  Nelson is pretty good.  Not sure about depth.  

 

Good thing the Eagles have 5 early draft picks next season (for now)

 

Pretty much how I see it. 

QB is the trickiest and most important part of the equation.  I've said Minshew is a decent place holder if need be, nothing more.  Could possibly buy us a season before having to draft another QB.  Rare to have a good QB hit the market in trade/FA. 

Sanders is in Year 3 of his 4 year 2nd Round deal so Gainwell might be taking over for him in 2023.  Could use a late round RB with size and power for that change of pace.  Someone who can get that tough last yard and make the D work while putting some bruises on them.

DE is in a worse position than DT.  For next season only Sweat seems like a lock to be a quality starter since BG will be coming off a major injury at a ripe age so how effective can he be?  You can't count on him.  DE is a big need.

LB seems nonexistent.  Need to find out if any of the young guys can play, like Taylor and Johnson.  Still a need regardless and hope that they draft a LB no later than 3rd Round and not a developmental player, but one that can play from Day 1.

In today's NFL I'd argue a really good cover S is as much or more important than a CB.  Sad that this organization doesn't value the LB and S position, which is weird after having one of the first Swiss Army knife Ss in BDawk.  Think they'd understand it's an important position.  Would love to see them draft a ballhawking S with range, but other teams seem to take them before we do.

 

Weird. Didn't even know he was suspended... 

14 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I will assume this joke went way over your head.

Unsurprisingly, this still hasn't been addressed. I give you the following:

• Hurts failing to let plays develop
• Hurts continually running to his right
• Hurts throwing the ball out of bounds on 4th down
• Hurts throwing the ball out of bounds on a free play
• Hurts running out of the pocket and sliding for a loss as opposed to just throwing the ball away (when he should be).
• Ward throwing the ball out of the end zone on 4th down (terrible play call and series. Undeniable)
• Leading the league in penalties
• Sanders running out of bounds not once, but twice in a critical moment of the game.

Now obviously these are just some examples, but again I'll ask. Do those fall on the coaching staff not having their players up to speed or Jalen's inability to read the field?

2 hours ago, Mike31mt said:

This is the problem with waiting around for the light to come on with Hurts when youre already 99% sure of his ceiling

Things will degrade further as they try everything they can to make Hurts a functional QB 

Turn the page and do it now

Damn, 99% sure.  That means that we should be 75% sure that Wilson is a flop, 75% sure that Lawrence is a flop, 70% sure that Lawrence is a flop, 65% sure that Lance is as flop, and that Jones is mediocre at best.  I have and have had significant concerns about Hurts since before the 2020 draft but to predict that we are so,sure of his ceiling 10 games into his career with all the shuffles at OL, might be a bit of a stretch, especially in that he is only 6 games in with a real QB coach.  That doesn’t mean I have significant concerns about his reads and his tendency to bail on the pocket.  I do.  But I think it may be a tad premature to have 99% insight into his ceiling. 

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

I will assume this joke went way over your head.

OHHHHHHHHH....Superman, and not the bisexual one.

Yep, way over my head.  My mistake.

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

Most organizations will give their head coach the QB (or QB prospect) of their choosing.  It's easy to forget Sirianni took the job with the belief that Wentz would be the QB -- and under contract for 4 years.  Sirianni ended up inheriting Hurts through circumstances; he wasn't even involved with drafting him.  He's trying to make chicken salad out of chicken s--t, so to speak.

Fans are going to have to play the long game here.  I doubt seriously that Howie or Lurie would jettison this coaching staff after one season.  They've undoubtedly told Sirianni to get the most he can out of Hurts this season and there will be an evaluation of the QB position after the season.   The point was made earlier -- the Eagles drafted Kolb in 2007, Foles in 2012, and Wentz in 2016.  It's a lazy assumption that they will mandate a "dual threat QB" to be the only path forward.  I believe they'll allow Sirianni and Steichen to have heavy input into the next QB drafted (or acquired) to lead the franchise -- just as Doug and Frank wanted Wentz, so Howie traded up to #2 to get him.

Now -- some of us just have to hope that Nick doesn't actually believe Hurts is that guy.

The debate isn't about Hurts except that he serves as a way to look at Siranni.  I don't have any faith that Sirianni could develop Joe Montana as a prospect at this point.  I think that is a fair question to ask what improvement from the offense have you seen that you could attribute to Sirianni? I see nothing creative in the run and passing attacks.  The team is slow to adjust.  The game plans seem simplistic.  The play calling seems questionable. They repeatedly make mistakes executing plays like rub routes.  Hurts has 5 more TD throws if the WRs just stopped committing penalties. 

18 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

The debate isn't about Hurts except that he serves as a way to look at Siranni.  I don't have any faith that Sirianni could develop Joe Montana as a prospect at this point.

I don't think Hurts will be the only QB Sirianni will be given the chance to develop.  If Sirianni chooses to stick with Hurts beyond this season, however, then it's fair to say their futures are tied together in Philly.  

10 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I don't think Hurts will be the only QB Sirianni will be given the chance to develop.  If Sirianni chooses to stick with Hurts beyond this season, however, then it's fair to say their futures are tied together in Philly.  

I definitely do not agree with this.

Sirianni waited until week 1 to announce Hurts as the starter, just in case we decided to trade for Watson. Sirianni has never given his full backing of Hurts, preaching competition. He was critical of Jalen after the Bucs loss.

If Sirianni can cut bait on Hurts this off-season for a better QB, he'll try to.

8 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Damn, 99% sure.  That means that we should be 75% sure that Wilson is a flop, 75% sure that Lawrence is a flop, 70% sure that Lawrence is a flop, 65% sure that Lance is as flop, and that Jones is mediocre at best.  I have and have had significant concerns about Hurts since before the 2020 draft but to predict that we are so,sure of his ceiling 10 games into his career with all the shuffles at OL, might be a bit of a stretch, especially in that he is only 6 games in with a real QB coach.  That doesn’t mean I have significant concerns about his reads and his tendency to bail on the pocket.  I do.  But I think it may be a tad premature to have 99% insight into his ceiling. 

I don't see how anyone can be sure of anything.  I mean Josh Allen looked like a mess mechanically in his first 2 seasons.  He was only slightly better in his second season.  He has some flashes but I am not sure that anyone aside from @austinfan would have been sold on him as a franchise QB.  I am not sure on the outcome for Hurts or Sirianni.  I just am not happy with either of them at this point.  Frankly, I would be happy to see each of them improve.

I think the team should look long and hard about moving on from Hurts in the offseason but  I do not think that should be a given.  The QB prospects in this class all seem to have significant concerns.  Investing a high pick (or multiple picks in a trade up) for a questionable prospect when the team has many needs, is concerning.  The same would be true in terms of trading for Watson.  If the team ends up with 3 first round picks and is able to come away with more than one of: Thibodeaux, Stingley, Booth, Hamilton, Hutchinson, Leal, Harris or Elam, then this team all of the sudden starts to look much better on one side of the ball.  

1 minute ago, RLC said:

I definitely do not agree with this.

Sirianni waited until week 1 to announce Hurts as the starter, just in case we decided to trade for Watson. Sirianni has never given his full backing of Hurts, preaching competition. He was critical of Jalen after the Bucs loss.

If Sirianni can cut bait on Hurts this off-season for a better QB, he'll try to.

I think that's apparent -- that's why "IF" is in there ..... 

12 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I don't think Hurts will be the only QB Sirianni will be given the chance to develop.  If Sirianni chooses to stick with Hurts beyond this season, however, then it's fair to say their futures are tied together in Philly.  

I am concerned that Sirianni's staff isn't set up to help a QB develop.  

Barnett is a surprise at 3. I had read Donovan Smith was among the worst tackles in pass block win rate this week, so maybe Barnett cooked him but Brady was too quick to release the ball. 

1 hour ago, Alphagrand said:

I'm going to try anyway:

Offense

QB -- it's not good.  Athlete at QB1 who is very limited at reading, anticipating, diagnosing defenses.  Will only go as far as his athleticism.  QB2 is washed, and QB3 was brought in out of the clearance bin, and looks bright and shiny because of the dullness of the other two.  Early draft pick (or FA) needed

WR -- Young group who will make mistakes but lots of potential.  Smith is a keeper, Quez might be a hidden gem, Reagor could have a niche -- need a veteran presence

TE -- Goedert is a top 6 TE, Jackson and Stoll have real potential

OL -- Dickerson, Mailata, Dillard, Driscoll, Seumalo are the immediate future.  Kelce and Lane (hopefully) still can help this season.

RB -- Sanders and Gainwell are a good 1-2 punch.  Now, if the Eagles would only give them more than 1-2 carries.

 

Defense

DT -- Cox and Hargrave are solid starters; I think of Cox like Kelce and Lane in that he's got an expiry date after this season.  Milton Williams and an early draft pick is needed

DE -- Sweat.  Barnett needs to be gone.  Early draft pick needed

LB -- tumbleweeds.  There's nothing there.  Can Avery and Taylor play?  I guess we'll find out.  Early draft pick needed

S -- better than LB (?) Epps can play a bit.  McLeod and Harris need to be upgraded.  Early draft pick needed

CB -- Slay is very good.  Nelson is pretty good.  Not sure about depth.  

 

Good thing the Eagles have 5 early draft picks next season (for now)

 

Wonder if we could ship off Lane, Cox, or someone else to fill voids at S, LB, CB, or elsewhere so we can use our assets to move up for someone like Kayvon Thibodeaux.