Who are some good draft analysts to get takes on these QBs from?

11 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

Drafting a QB in the top 10 isn't a mystery like some think it is. Those who know the position well have a pretty high hit % with who they think will succeed or fail. Chris Simms as one example. There are a lot of people who aren't good at evaluating QBs.

Also, maybe let's not write the book on Lawrence and Wilson after 7 games while playing on two of the worst teams in the league. They both have done some really good things so far too.

The funny thing is he takes a shot at Wilson and we reportedly tried to trade up for him. 

Which is why I hate drafting QBs until you build the team. If you have a talented team, a young QB is less likely to fail, we'll see if Lawrence and Wilson survive their teams.

Look at the top QBs, Rodgers was drafting in the 20s, Brady 6th rd, Brees a trade, Mahomes #10. Look at Stafford in LA v Detroit. Or Goff in Detroit v LA. Or Tannehill. Do you think Mahomes would have been successful going to a bad team and starting as a rookie, v going to KC and sitting for a season?

Reaching for a QB at the top of the draft is a fool's errand.

 

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

Which is why I hate drafting QBs until you build the team. If you have a talented team, a young QB is less likely to fail, we'll see if Lawrence and Wilson survive their teams.

Look at the top QBs, Rodgers was drafting in the 20s, Brady 6th rd, Brees a trade, Mahomes #10. Look at Stafford in LA v Detroit. Or Goff in Detroit v LA. Or Tannehill. Do you think Mahomes would have been successful going to a bad team and starting as a rookie, v going to KC and sitting for a season?

Reaching for a QB at the top of the draft is a fool's errand.

 

Who said anything about reaching? If you identify the right QB, you take him, especially if you have the OL to protect him and a coach to develop him. 

I’m not particularly confident Sirianni is the guy, but I think we have the OL. 

No one is saying take a QB just to take one. 

9 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Which is why I hate drafting QBs until you build the team. If you have a talented team, a young QB is less likely to fail, we'll see if Lawrence and Wilson survive their teams.

Look at the top QBs, Rodgers was drafting in the 20s, Brady 6th rd, Brees a trade, Mahomes #10. Look at Stafford in LA v Detroit. Or Goff in Detroit v LA. Or Tannehill. Do you think Mahomes would have been successful going to a bad team and starting as a rookie, v going to KC and sitting for a season?

Reaching for a QB at the top of the draft is a fool's errand.

 

The bengals say hello. They were awful on defense and oline last year. Without burrow that team isn’t currently the 1 seed in the AFC. They were nowhere close to being a complete team. The chargers were also not a complete team. They had oline issues and a below average secondary outside at one safety position. And bosa was good the rest was very average. But they took herbert. I don’t think they’ve regretted it.

If there’s a quarterback there that you really love and you think will be a franchise quarterback you better get them because if somebody else gets him and he turns into that you’re gonna look like Howie and the Eagles who keep telling us about how Russell Wilson was the apple Of their eye they missed out on long ago. 

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

The bengals say hello. They were awful on defense and oline last year. Without burrow that team isn’t currently the 1 seed in the AFC. They were nowhere close to being a complete team. The chargers were also not a complete team. They had oline issues and a below average secondary outside at one safety position. And bosa was good the rest was very average. But they took herbert. I don’t think they’ve regretted it.

If there’s a quarterback there that you really love and you think will be a franchise quarterback you better get them because if somebody else gets him and he turns into that you’re gonna look like Howie and the Eagles who keep telling us about how Russell Wilson was the apple Of their eye they missed out on long ago. 

Yeah, imagine passing on Luck or Burrow because you didn’t think the team was good enough around him. 

Building the team and hoping out of pure luck you can draft a guy in the mid first round or there just so happens to be a mega star FA or trade you can do is the definition of foolish. You don’t take a QB just for the sake of it but you take one when you identify one and feel strong about it. 

Take Burrow off the Bengals and insert Hurts in, they become a 1 win team and Chase averages 45 rec yards a game.

QB and HC is everything in this league, the rest are just spare parts.

Just now, ManuManu said:

Yeah, imagine passing on Luck or Burrow because you didn’t think the team was good enough around him. 

Not only that you know the Eagles are going to make that move. You think Howie Roseman and Jeffrey lurie are going to sit around for another off-season not getting the franchise quarterback? You know they’re going to do it. If draft kings allowed me to bet on that I’d put a ton of money on it. 

35 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

Drafting a QB in the top 10 isn't a mystery like some think it is. Those who know the position well have a pretty high hit % with who they think will succeed or fail. Chris Simms as one example. There are a lot of people who aren't good at evaluating QBs.

Also, maybe let's not write the book on Lawrence and Wilson after 7 games while playing on two of the worst teams in the league. They both have done some really good things so far too.

Oh sure. Every team that drafts a QB high knows what they're doing. It's not rocket science, it's just that teams miss on 2 out of 3.

2021:  Lawrence (1), Wilson (2), Lance (3), Fields (11), Jones (15), Jones is the only one playing decently, but you have to question his upside

2020:  Burrow (1), Tua (5), Herbert (6)

2019:  Murray (1), D Jones (6), Haskins (15) - Murray probably wouldn't be nearly as successful in any other scheme

2018:  Mayfield (1), Darnold (3), Allen (7), Rosen (10)

2017:  Trubisky (2), Mahomes (10), Watson (12)

2016:  Goff (1), Wentz (2)

2015:  Winston (1), Mariota (2)

2014:  Bortles (3)

2013:  Manuel (16)

2012:  Luck (1), RG III (2) Tannehill (8)

2011:  Newton (1), Locker (8), Gabbert (10), Ponder (12)

Yeah, dumb teams get desperate and draft QBs they shouldn't. Have you ever heard Rex Ryan's explanation for why the drafted Mark Sanchez? Not everyone knows what they're doing with QBs. If Howie Roseman is the genius you make him out to be, he won't have a problem identifying the right QB.

To get away from the QB debate for a second...here's a bit of a hot take, but a valid concern nonetheless, as we focus on QB and defense:

Out of 5 OL positions, we have ZERO sure things for 2022 and beyond.  If the Eagles do not get a high end starting OL out of the 2022 draft, whoever their QB is will get annihilated in 2023 and 2024.  

57 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

What does the bolded mean?  

I’m guessing it means they were hits. Apparently cam Newton wasn’t a hit. Only won an mvp and got to a super bowl. I don’t even like cam and that’s disingenuous as it gets. 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’m guessing it means they were hits. Patently cam Newton wasn’t a hit. Only won an mvp and got to a super bowl. I don’t even like cam and that’s disingenuous as it gets. 

Yeah, Watson should be bolded too. And Tannehill.

The Bears, Dolphins, Niners and Seahawks all traded away their first round pick in 2022. Yikes. 

2 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

Yeah, Watson should be bolded too. And Tannehill.

Mayfield too, he's not Josh Allen, but he's helped turn a perpetual 1 win team into a playoff team.

Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Yep.  And of course Wentz wasn’t a hit in his eyes.  
 

Congrats.  I can’t believe Metcalf got an 85 yard TD catch early and all I needed was 30 more yards to win the fantasy week a s I lost again.  That’s 2-3 really close losses for me.  FML.  

I thought for sure after that td he was going to just go off.

I’m 2-5 in my other league. Lost by a point and that’s the second time this year I’ve lost by a point. not only that both times i had the second highest point total for the week. 

Just now, D-Shiznit said:

Mayfleld too, he's not Josh Allen, but he's helped turn a perpetual 1 win team into a playoff team.

I'm not the biggest Baker fan, but you can make the argument for him.

Just now, schuy7 said:

I'm not the biggest Baker fan, but you can make the argument for him.

Me neither, but he's not a bust.

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

The Bears, Dolphins, Niners and Seahawks all traded away their first round pick in 2022. Yikes. 

At least the bears and niners can say they have their franchise QB going forward not that it means much if both suck but dolphins did it to get waddle. Seahawks did it for a blitzing safety who stinks in coverage. 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

At least the bears and niners can say they have their franchise QB going forward not that it means much if both suck but dolphins did it to get waddle. Seahawks did it for a blitzing safety who stinks in coverage. 

Yup. Although the Niners spending three 1s on Lance is just baffling. 

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

At least the bears and niners can say they have their franchise QB going forward not that it means much if both suck but dolphins did it to get waddle. Seahawks did it for a blitzing safety who stinks in coverage. 

Fields and Lance are examples of QBs who teams took hoping they would work out. That's what gets team into trouble. Both have severe mechanical flaws to overcome to become good NFL passers. The jump they have to take is massive and unlikely. 

15 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Oh sure. Every team that drafts a QB high knows what they're doing. It's not rocket science, it's just that teams miss on 2 out of 3.

2021:  Lawrence (1), Wilson (2), Lance (3), Fields (11), Jones (15), Jones is the only one playing decently, but you have to question his upside

2020:  Burrow (1), Tua (5), Herbert (6)

2019:  Murray (1), D Jones (6), Haskins (15) - Murray probably wouldn't be nearly as successful in any other scheme

2018:  Mayfield (1), Darnold (3), Allen (7), Rosen (10)

2017:  Trubisky (2), Mahomes (10), Watson (12)

2016:  Goff (1), Wentz (2)

2015:  Winston (1), Mariota (2)

2014:  Bortles (3)

2013:  Manuel (16)

2012:  Luck (1), RG III (2) Tannehill (8)

2011:  Newton (1), Locker (8), Gabbert (10), Ponder (12)

Cool, now do QBs drafted #16 or later overall 

There is wisdom in Afan's argument.  Granted, I believe he's making it simply because that is the hand the Eagles have been dealt and he's fluffing the approach they will take.  But still, there is reason to take it.

If you have a top 10 pick or have access to obtaining one and there is an incredible QB prospect, by all means, pull the trigger.  For reference, IMO, that doesn't apply to ANYONE in the 2021 draft besides Trevor Lawrence, with no due respect to Zach Wilson.  You simply do not draft guys like Baker Mayfield or Mark Sanchez in that range just because they are the (arguably) best prospects in a bad crop.  And that is exactly what some team(s) will do with the 2022 QB class.  Let's not be one of them.

I'd rather continuously hit the position in the mid-rounds with solid frame, strong-armed, smart passers with natural releases who might not have found themselves in the right situation to ring up hype inducing stats behind NFL quality OL's throwing to 1st round WRs.

Again, if you have a shot at a generational prospect...sure...take it.  But the best QB's generally come into more talented situations because their teams didn't mortgage everything just to get them.  And I don't want to overpay for some QB who was simply a cog in an SEC machine that turns anyone that can spin a spiral into a heisman candidate.

I'm seeing both sides of this QB argument.  For one, yes, if you identify the guy you feel can be your starting QB over the next decade then you draft him.  Second, on the other side of the coin, if you have a dire need for the position and you more talk yourself into drafting a guy because you have a dire need for the position then that's different.  The latter part is what I think a good amount of us in here are concerned with.  If we end up with 2 top ten picks and use one on a QB that won't be unexpected.  I think it depends on who they draft how we'll all feel about it.  The consensus is there isn't even one standout QB in the upcoming draft so they'll be more risk in taking one early than in previous drafts. 

Should they take one, IMO, he should start out as QB2 and sit and learn for at least half the season.  This is one reason I'm glad we have Minshew to be that placeholder until the heir apparent is ready to take the reins.  Now, our situation on the O side of the ball isn't as bad as some rookie QBs have been thrust into (JAX, NYJ, CLE before Mayfield, etc.), but I still think a slower approach would be better.  Plus, our D is so lacking in starting talent at every position except DT (though that will be an upcoming issue sooner than later) we desperately need to draft heavy for that side of the ball.  Having a better D will help the O in the battle of field position and not having to constantly play from behind so being able to use your entire playbook (if we have one of those here) and keep the opposing D off guard (if Lowie isn't calling the plays). 

Honestly, I'd rather us draft one than trade an ish ton of picks for one, like Watson.  He has too many red flags for me even if he is cleared of all charges.  Funny how most here want Watson and don't care about either his off the field issues nor his pouting because he didn't have input on the HC hire and wanting out of HOU because they're a mess of an organization, yet they'll openly roast Wentz (without off field issues) who also wanted to get away from a mess of an organization.  With as many holes as the D has we need as many picks (and the earlier the better) as we can have to just begin starting to rebuild it.  So if they think one of the QBs in this draft is the guy then draft him, but if they're not fully convinced then don't draft a QB just because it's a need and reach.  Hopefully we'll have 2 top 5 picks, at least 1 in the top 5 and another 6 to 9 to make the decision easier.