4 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

That was 10 years ago. I'm discussing Howie in his current role.

Howie was GM during the Dream Team as well. My question stands. 

1 minute ago, schuy7 said:

It doesn't matter either way. Howie is the GM. He makes the picks.

The way it "should work" (JMO) is the coaching staff gives the GM a wish list of the ideal physical traits they need/want at each position group.  The GM in turn provides that list to the scouting department, and the scouts go to work on finding the best athletes at those positions.  I don't believe for a second that the coaches should be pounding the table for any specific player/prospect.  Pre-draft interviews are what fills in the intangibles (intelligence, personal traits, character concerns, etc.)

The coaching staff is too busy game planning, evaluating, and coaching up the players they currently have.  The scouting department finds the best athletes to match what the coaches need.  The GM is the go-between and brings those two agendas together, from a drafting perspective. 

Fully in agreement with your point, the GM is accountable for the entire process and the results. 

5 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Howie was GM during the Dream Team as well. My question stands. 

Of course he was. That doesn't mean his role was the same. Andy had been here for 10 years and deservingly had a lot of say. Howie is an oversee-er now and he makes all final decisions now.

36 minutes ago, austinfan said:

It's not that, it's power politics between a GM and a SB winning HC.

The Eagles aren't the first team to run into this situation, in fact, the Dream Team was Reid winning power over personnel, Howie was his errand boy at that time.

But you can look around the league and see this scenario, HC insists on certain players, GM refuses, HC then uses media to undercut GM, one or both goes.

Would that it were.

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

It's not that, it's power politics between a GM and a SB winning HC.

The Eagles aren't the first team to run into this situation, in fact, the Dream Team was Reid winning power over personnel, Howie was his errand boy at that time.

But you can look around the league and see this scenario, HC insists on certain players, GM refuses, HC then uses media to undercut GM, one or both goes.

Where else was Doug shown that kind of deference? I mean the entire offseason was geared around pushing him to hire a better OC when he didn't want to fire Mike Groh.  It makes you wonder what type of power politics are at play when he's not given that decision but given reign over a first round choice over the scouting department.  Politics were at play but my question is whether the team would do better with less of a politician in the position.  If Howie was less worried about appeasement (under the guise of teamwork and collaboration) and more concerned with making the correct pick, the picks would be better.  I think the concern is that Howie is not able to make an examination of a players' traits and how they improve the team.  He's not using his own analysis but relying on others.  My cynical take is the he's then playing favorites to manage up in order to appease Lurie.  

I do think Howie has value.  I just think he is miscast in his current role.    Give Weidl roster say 51 to 49 over Sirianni.  Put Roseman in Banner's role to manage that relationship serve as an intermediary to Lurie.  Have him assess the trade market and what other teams are going to do.  Lurie needs to better address Roseman's deficits by taking him out of roles where they handicap the team.  

2 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Where else was Doug shown that kind of deference?

No where... literally NO WHERE!  It is just the easy way to make Doug the scape goat.  Howie was a victim... again.

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

No where... literally NO WHERE!  It is just the easy way to make Doug the scape goat.  Howie was a victim... again.

Doug is the escaped goat at this point. 

 

Guess we're winning Sunday.

19 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

Of course he was. That doesn't mean his role was the same. Andy had been here for 10 years and deservingly had a lot of say. Howie is an oversee-er now and he makes all final decisions now.

The argument being made by Afan was that Doug had been given that same say based on winning the Super Bowl. I don't agree that's what happened, but if it were the case, then I wouldn't blame Howie. 

2 minutes ago, RLC said:

Guess we're winning Sunday.

Any given Tuesday...

4 minutes ago, RLC said:

Guess we're winning Sunday.

Kamara would have been a real problem for us

36 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

PFF doesn’t just go off who was the guy to tackle the QB. They give credit to the guy who caused the sack. So if Sweat causes the QB to run into a defender who makes the "sack,” they give the credit to Sweat.

I heard about that.  Isn't it called context?

I read about it on the Google.

 

 

2 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

The argument being made by Afan was that Doug had been given that same say based on winning the Super Bowl. I don't agree that's what happened, but if it were the case, then I wouldn't blame Howie. 

Right, which is why I said I've heard people say Howie was hot for Jalen Reagor from the start.

I fully believe Doug wanted Reagor over Jefferson. However, it's Howie's job to overrule the HC when they're wrong. He failed. It's on Howie.

Would have been a great addition next year at that price. 

21 minutes ago, RLC said:

Guess we're winning Sunday.

 

 

That is big.  Hopefully we can finally get this home win against the Saints which will be our first win at home since...the Saints. 

19 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Looks like the injuries breaks are going our way, for once.

 

 

Except Mark Ingram is turning in to Frank Gore 2.0  Doesn't seem to be slowing down and still making plays at 31.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a big game. 

28 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

I heard about that.  Isn't it called context?

I read about it on the Google.

 

 

Yep. People don’t like that though. 

 

34 minutes ago, RLC said:

I fully believe Doug wanted Reagor over Jefferson. However, it's Howie's job to overrule the HC when they're wrong. He failed. It's on Howie.

It’s that simple. 

Can't trust someone with two first names.

 

47 minutes ago, RLC said:

I fully believe Doug wanted Reagor over Jefferson. However, it's Howie's job to overrule the HC when they're wrong. He failed. It's on Howie.

My cynical take is that Howie's preference is to keep his job.  He knows Doug is under pressure because of the offensive play and change at OC.  He knows that Doug prefers Reagor to Jefferson. He knows Weidl prefers Jefferson to Reagor.  Howie has no opinion.   If he picks Jefferson and Jefferson flops, well Howie is now on the hot seat for not listening to his Super Bowl winning coach. If he picks Reagor and Reagor flops, well Doug didn't listen about the OC change and now he needs to listen to us.  It's about leverage and politics.  The pick doesn't matter except in how it impacts his job.  Sure he wants picks to work but most picks do fail. It's more important to have someone to blame when they go wrong.  

2 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

My cynical take is that Howie's preference is to keep his job.  He knows Doug is under pressure because of the offensive play and change at OC.  He knows that Doug prefers Reagor to Jefferson. He knows Weidl prefers Jefferson to Reagor.  Howie has no opinion.   If he picks Jefferson and Jefferson flops, well Howie is now on the hot seat for not listening to his Super Bowl winning coach. If he picks Reagor and Reagor flops, well Doug didn't listen about the OC change and now he needs to listen to us.  It's about leverage and politics.  The pick doesn't matter except in how it impacts his job.  Sure he wants picks to work but most picks do fail. It's more important to have someone to blame when they go wrong.  

The bolded is the problem.  None of that is about football.

5 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

My cynical take is that Howie's preference is to keep his job.  He knows Doug is under pressure because of the offensive play and change at OC.  He knows that Doug prefers Reagor to Jefferson. He knows Weidl prefers Jefferson to Reagor.  Howie has no opinion.   If he picks Jefferson and Jefferson flops, well Howie is now on the hot seat for not listening to his Super Bowl winning coach. If he picks Reagor and Reagor flops, well Doug didn't listen about the OC change and now he needs to listen to us.  It's about leverage and politics.  The pick doesn't matter except in how it impacts his job.  Sure he wants picks to work but most picks do fail. It's more important to have someone to blame when they go wrong.  

My even more cynical take is:

Reagor was drafted because they saw him as the next Desean Jackson

JJAW was drafted because they saw him as the next Alshon Jeffery

Pumphrey was drafted because they saw him as the next Darren Sproles

Hurts was drafted because they saw him as the next Russell Wilson

 

They need to adjust their philosophy -- to just drafting the best talent to fit that philosophy.