3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

The difference between most QBs in terms of creating offense (not stats) isn't that great.

Eagles are 12th in points per game (15th offense at 23 ppg), 14th in total yards, that's with Hurts, without Ertz, inexperienced WR group and 2 starters and a key backup injured on the OL.

Packers with Rodgers are scoring the same per game.

TB 30 ppg, Bills 28.0 ppg, Bengals 27.5, Rams 27.2, Colts 27.1, Zona 26.7, Dallas 26.4, KC 25 ppg on offense, so there's not a huge scoring gap.

A gap that could be closed with just adding 2-3 studs on defense.

You’re talking like adding 2-3 studs on defense is an easy thing. 

1 minute ago, Utebird said:

Carr reminds me a lot of cousins in that he puts up lots of yards not lots of tds or wins.

The biggest difference for me is Carr plays very well under the lights and in the clutch, where Cousins usually wilts under pressure.  Might just be my perception but that's what I notice.

14 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

You don't force it and do something like trade a 2nd for Sam Darnold, but you also can't be afraid to pay a premium price and take a shot at someone. You identify your QB whether it be draft, FA or trade and you do what it takes to get him (reasonably speaking). 

Agreed... but with the caveat that you don't overpay for the return you get back.  The cost of doing business for Rodgers, Wilson and Watson is just crazy high.  And you won't ever recoup that cost.  Instead, you dig a deeper hole for the rest of the franchise both in acquiring younger cheaper talent (draft picks) and the ability to sign free agents because you are already paying top dollar for the QB, so you don't get the benefit of a young QB on a rookie deal.

Just now, austinfan said:

Take Brady out of that sample and get back to me. Unless you think you're gonna find the next Brady.

Sure - WIlson, Mahommes, Rodgers, Brees, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Rothlisberger.

Where are the non franchise QB's that have won the SB the past 15-20 years

Foles, Dilfer, Flacco

 

Then add in Brady's 6 SB wins. It is a landslide.  like 15-3? 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

You’re talking like adding 2-3 studs on defense is an easy thing. 

With 3 first rd picks, a high 2nd, and a bunch of lottery tickets in a deep draft, not that hard.

You don't need to add a bunch of all pros, just 4-5 guys who are athletic and not brain dead, a lot of building a defense is plugging weaknesses, other than a great DL, most defensive players can be schemed around (just don't throw at a top CB), but it's hard to hide glaring weaknesses. Like slow safeties and LBs who can't cover.

Well that didn't work

Wanna here something funny and cooler, the Eagles got beat by the giants 

8 minutes ago, austinfan said:

The difference between most QBs in terms of creating offense (not stats) isn't that great.

Eagles are 12th in points per game (15th offense at 23 ppg), 14th in total yards, that's with Hurts, without Ertz, inexperienced WR group and 2 starters and a key backup injured on the OL.

Packers with Rodgers are scoring the same per game.

TB 30 ppg, Bills 28.0 ppg, Bengals 27.5, Rams 27.2, Colts 27.1, Zona 26.7, Dallas 26.4, KC 25 ppg on offense, so there's not a huge scoring gap.

A gap that could be closed with just adding 2-3 studs on defense.

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I was waiting for you to take that bait.  That's a COMPLETELY different scenario.  How much draft capital did the Bucs give up to grab him?   

 

Exactly ZERO.  They signed him as a FREE AGENT.  Which means that they only had to pay his contract.  Then you look at his contract, and see that he's the 15th! Highest paid QB in the league, and that Watson is under contract for MUCH MORE, and that Wilson and Rodgers are basically rentals... and then you have to franchise or renegotiate new higher deals.  

Watson: 

 

Wilson:

He'd be 'cheap' comparatively, but would likely require a new contract and won't be signing cheaply...  Likely looking at $35M-$40M for him.

 

Rodgers:

One year left... he's a rental... what will it cost in draft capital to rent him for 1 year?

 

 

The Tom Brady move is so completely different from the acquisition of Rodgers, Wilson or Watson that it can't be compared at all.   If any of them were free agents and would only require signing them on the dotted line, that changes the entire dynamic of the conversation.  But, that's not the situation with those 3, so... hard pass.  None of them are worth the cost required for this franchise.  Let another team make that mistake.

I still disagree. 

When you dont have a franchise QB, you are spinning your wheels. 

We basically would give up this years first rd draft picks.  And yes negotiate a deal

 

VS

 

hope you draft one someday, and he magically develops into a top 10 or 15 QB? 

 

 

HMMMM  those are my choices? 

I'm going with the former. 

 

6 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

The biggest difference for me is Carr plays very well under the lights and in the clutch, where Cousins usually wilts under pressure.  Might just be my perception but that's what I notice.

Id be willing to take a chance at Carr as well. He will cost less. 

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

With 3 first rd picks, a high 2nd, and a bunch of lottery tickets in a deep draft, not that hard.

You don't need to add a bunch of all pros, just 4-5 guys who are athletic and not brain dead, a lot of building a defense is plugging weaknesses, other than a great DL, most defensive players can be schemed around (just don't throw at a top CB), but it's hard to hide glaring weaknesses. Like slow safeties and LBs who can't cover.

How many studs do we have on defense right now?

Here’s one stud. Maybe Hargrave too? So we can snap our fingers and add 2-3 more easily?

8 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

I knew it wouldn't be popular. But it's the way I see it. No Franchise QB, means you are spinning your wheels. Yes we may not get one, but you have to TRY when you have the ammo. 

 

You miss 100% of the shots you dont take. 

Yet eagles won their only super bowl with a non franchise QB.

Sure it's the exception not the rule but when one qb( Brady) has won 1/3 of the super bowls in the last two decades it's tough to judge.

Rodgers for all his greatness has all of 1 super bowl win, Wilson, 1 super Bowl Win 

Patrick Mahomes so far 1 super bowl win.

Watson in all his greatness was 4-12 his last year.

It's not like the eagles roster is full of talent, if Watson couldn't carry a bad Texans roster what makes one think he could carry a bad eagles roster???

I'm not sold on any qbs in this draft, and i especially don't trust Howie to find a good one.

Nor do I trust him to find any good defenders  but I'd rather attempt to build the team and then add the QB than throw a rookie QB or an established one into a bad situation.

 

9 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

The biggest difference for me is Carr plays very well under the lights and in the clutch, where Cousins usually wilts under pressure.  Might just be my perception but that's what I notice.

Yup cousins is a dunce, where as Carr like you say is a bit more clutch.

17 minutes ago, austinfan said:

And what are the odds that any of this year's QB turns out to be a franchise QB?  10%? Maybe less.

Look at last year's class, Mac Jones QBR 52.6 (15), Lawrence 33.9 (29), Fields 25.9 (33), Wiilson 23.5 (34), Lance.

And that was considered one of the best QB drafts - maybe 2 will turn out to be a franchise QB, probably 1 or 0 (Jones doesn't strike me as a franchise guy, solid caretaker).

Build a team and hope to get lucky and land a QB or have a veteran fall into your lap.

Lurie would match any offer, and I think Stoutland prefers the NFL, you get to work with adults, less hand holding.

Jones is simple, he throws catchable passes, he’s always been accurate, and out of the QB’s mentioned and most importantly, the Patriots offensive line is very good.  Lawrence and Fields have bad lines and bad coaches, Lance and Wilson both were overrated.   
 For fans that underrate arm strength, that’s a big reason Wilson, and Lance were both taken in the top 5.   It’s the main reason this upcoming class is considered so weak, that and the fact most of the QB’s reportedly coming out are 6’1”.  

14 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

We will agree to dissagree.

Yes I think any of those 3 Qb's would raise the level of QB play on our team to put us into the playoffs. Maybe you think Hurts has been good this year? I dont. He has been horrible. The only thing he has been good at is running the ball.

Wow... way to build a false equivalence.  I don't want to overpay for specific QBs, therefore I must think Hurts has been good.  🤦‍♂️

 

No, Hurts has been horrible as a passer, he's holding the team back, AS ARE other areas of the team.  But, just making the playoffs isn't enough.  The Washingteam made the playoffs last year at 7-9.  Big whoop.  Were they legit contenders?  Nope.  The Giants nearly made the playoffs at 6-10 if the Eagles had beaten Washington, would that have made them contenders?    I don't want this team to be a team that limps into the playoffs as a weak division winner or a charity case WC team only to get demolished when the real games start.  I want a FULL ROSTER that is ready to compete at all positions. I want a legit contender.  And the full roster needs upgrading... not just a couple spots and the QB.

17 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

I knew it wouldn't be popular. But it's the way I see it. No Franchise QB, means you are spinning your wheels. Yes we may not get one, but you have to TRY when you have the ammo. 

 

You miss 100% of the shots you dont take. 

And sometimes you shoot yourself in the leg when you handle the gun stupidly... let's not become Plaxico.

1 minute ago, Ipiggles said:

Sure - WIlson, Mahommes, Rodgers, Brees, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Rothlisberger.

Where are the non franchise QB's that have won the SB the past 15-20 years

Foles, Dilfer, Flacco

 

Then add in Brady's 6 SB wins. It is a landslide.  like 15-3? 

Eli is not a franchise QB. Unless you define is as any QB who starts for a few years. Even at his peak (sucked his first five seasons) he was barely top ten.

And Big Ben was never elite, played on great teams. Consistently good, but not in the same league as Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Peyton.

Eagles won with Foles, Denver with washed up Peyton, Baltimore with Flacco, Giants with Eli (2), TB with Brad Johnson, that's 6 of 15 in the last 20 years without Brady.

SF got there with Garopollo, Rams with Goff, Carolina with Newton, SF with Kaepernick (scored 31 points), Zona with 37 yr old Warner (lost by 4), Bears with Grossman, Seattle with Hasselback, Eagles with McNabb, Carolina with Delhomme (scored 29 points), Raiders with Gannon, Giants with Collins.

Sure, it's easier to win with a top QB, it's also easier to win with a top defense.

A franchise QB is like icing on a cake.

Without it, you still have the base of the cake, which can be anywhere from dry and crappy to moist and good. But without icing, it's just not right. 

Having only icing is nice, it's sugary, sweet, tastes good for a bit, but ultimately the sugar rush wears off and you have a headache with nothing to show except a few extra pounds.

But you don't trade away all the ingredients to build the cake just to get that sweet, delicious icing. 

 

15 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

The Bucs also didn't have 3 first rd picks to give, like we do. 

They didn't HAVE to... they just had to sign him to a new contract.  No picks used.     It's not even close to the same thing.  And they had money to spend to add other pieces around him.  If the Eagles do what you are suggesting, they piss away the draft capital they have... and then the new QB eats up the majority (if not all of) the available cap space they might be able to generate for 2022... and limit what they can add in 2023 because of the costs of these guys.

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Eli is not a franchise QB. Unless you define is as any QB who starts for a few years. Even at his peak (sucked his first five seasons) he was barely top ten.

And Big Ben was never elite, played on great teams. Consistently good, but not in the same league as Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Peyton.

Eagles won with Foles, Denver with washed up Peyton, Baltimore with Flacco, Giants with Eli (2), TB with Brad Johnson, that's 6 of 15 in the last 20 years without Brady.

SF got there with Garopollo, Rams with Goff, Carolina with Newton, SF with Kaepernick (scored 31 points), Zona with 37 yr old Warner (lost by 4), Bears with Grossman, Seattle with Hasselback, Eagles with McNabb, Carolina with Delhomme (scored 29 points), Raiders with Gannon, Giants with Collins.

Sure, it's easier to win with a top QB, it's also easier to win with a top defense.

Do you think we should move on from Hurts this year? I don't know who would replace him honestly, but just a question about what your off season strategy would be? 

17 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

You’re talking like adding 2-3 studs on defense is an easy thing. 

For Howie... piece of cake.  He added a defensive stud in 2012.  So, it should be no problem doing it again for 2022... he's due.

14 minutes ago, austinfan said:

With 3 first rd picks, a high 2nd, and a bunch of lottery tickets in a deep draft, not that hard.

You don't need to add a bunch of all pros, just 4-5 guys who are athletic and not brain dead, a lot of building a defense is plugging weaknesses, other than a great DL, most defensive players can be schemed around (just don't throw at a top CB), but it's hard to hide glaring weaknesses. Like slow safeties and LBs who can't cover.

Name the last defensive stud added by Howie in any draft.    I'll wait.

 

I do like how it went from 2 studs to '4-5 guys who are athletic' now.  Way to move the goal post you put up.

5 minutes ago, The Blackfish said:

Jones is simple, he throws catchable passes, he’s always been accurate, and out of the QB’s mentioned and most importantly, the Patriots offensive line is very good.  Lawrence and Fields have bad lines and bad coaches, Lance and Wilson both were overrated.   
 For fans that underrate arm strength, that’s a big reason Wilson, and Lance were both taken in the top 5.   It’s the main reason this upcoming class is considered so weak, that and the fact most of the QB’s reportedly coming out are 6’1”.  

We'll see what happens with these young QBs, but it shows you why you build the team first, and give a young QB a fighting chance.

Hurts is outperforming all but Jones, who is on the ideal team for his skill package. Doesn't make him good, makes him good enough for now.

Eagles are going to win 7-8 games, coming off 4-11-1, that's a substantial improvement.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

They didn't HAVE to... they just had to sign him to a new contract.  No picks used.     It's not even close to the same thing.  And they had money to spend to add other pieces around him.  If the Eagles do what you are suggesting, they piss away the draft capital they have... and then the new QB eats up the majority (if not all of) the available cap space they might be able to generate for 2022... and limit what they can add in 2023 because of the costs of these guys.

What's often overlooked is the Bucs were loaded on defense too. Which they had built up for years before Brady got there. Also, they had Evans and Godwin on offense. Sprinkle in a few upgrades on o-line, and they were about as primed as could be to add a franchise QB for free. 

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

For Howie... piece of cake.  He added a defensive stud in 2012.  So, it should be no problem doing it again for 2022... he's due.

Name the last defensive stud added by Howie in any draft.    I'll wait.

Cox I guess?