1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

It is an outlier as well.  Very few times does a QB of Brady's stature ever hit the free agency market, in fact... I'm pretty sure it's the only time.  

Odds are long of getting that... and trading for one increases the cost exponentially.

Very few times do Franchise QB actually hit the market period. 

Rodgers and Wilson happening in one year? Odds of that happening? 

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Ignoring the higher rated player to select the ones that we ended up with.  

Veto scouts... select JJAW, at behest of Lurie. 

Veto scouts... select Hurts over Chinn. 

Veto scouts... select Reagor over Jefferson.

 

Even this year, we saw with Milton Williams pick, the scouts (at least one) wanted Alim whatshisname. 

Now, that selection in and of itself may not be as bad as the prior ones, but we got to see video evidence of how frustrated the scouts seem to be with him. 

2 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

Very few times do Franchise QB actually hit the market period. 

Rodgers and Wilson happening in one year? Odds of that happening? 

I mean it's fun to discuss....but there's no guarantee either that those guys do hit the market. It seems likely, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see both starting for their same teams next year. 

3 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

Very few times do Franchise QB actually hit the market period. 

Rodgers and Wilson happening in one year? Odds of that happening? 

They are NOT hitting the market (aka, free agent market).  They are available via trade, hence the add-on comment about increasing costs exponentially.

 

Are you intentionally being obtuse about the difference between signing a QB via free agency, ala Brady (at a ridiculously low rate for his caliber) and trading for a more expensive rental?    

Sirianni doesn't have Driscolls number on his visor. He must not like him.

3 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Even this year, we saw with Milton Williams pick, the scouts (at least one) wanted Alim whatshisname. 

Now, that selection in and of itself may not be as bad as the prior ones, but we got to see video evidence of how frustrated the scouts seem to be with him. 

But what about the videos of all the running around the room and fist bumping?  🤦‍♂️

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Sirianni doesn't have Driscolls number on his visor. He must not like him.

oof...  that one has to sting a little.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

oof...  that one has to sting a little.

He hasn't had Jason Crooms number since like August either

7 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I mean it's fun to discuss....but there's no guarantee either that those guys do hit the market. It seems likely, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see both starting for their same teams next year. 

I agree, I do think Rodgers is al but a given, I question whether Wilson actually becomes avail. 

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

That holds for any player at any position, if you think he's the slam dunk best value you jump on him or even trade up for him.

The problem is with QBs, teams get so desperate that they talk themselves in love with mediocre prospects (we can teach him how to read defenses) and make bad mistakes.

If you're not certain he's going to be a franchise QB, then you can get mediocre prospects in the 2nd and 3rd rd, would you rather start Minshew or Darnold?

You mean like the eagles did with jalen reagor at WR. That’s exactly what they did because they wanted a deep speed vertical threat and force themselves into taking a WR that was a mediocre prospect and made a mistake. You act like teams don’t do that with other positions meanwhile the Eagles have shown you they’ve done that not at the QB position.

You act like the Eagles are just gonna build up the team properly with those picks and it’s gonna be a mistake free cause they aren’t going to take a QB. From 2017-2020 their top 3 round picks haven’t exactly been stellar: Barnett (gone at the end of the year and huge letdown), Sidney jones (bust), rasul Douglas (not here after 3 years), goedert (good), dillard ( backup LT that can’t even be a swing tackle), sanders (stuck in a rb rotation and has had durability concerns over 3 years), JJAW (bust), reagor (close to a bust), hurts (current starter and might be replaced down the road; was expected to be a backup so better than they anticipated) and Taylor (unknown but had gotten hurt multiple times in his 2 years). 2021 looks good so far however it hinges on Dickerson actually staying healthy which is a complete unknown and the thing that people were worried about. Williams is a backup currently and too early to tell. But what I can tell you there wasn’t a complete agreement on Milton Williams in that room because there was guys who wanted the kid from North Carolina State

No one is saying just take a quarterback to get a quarterback. What people are saying to you is if there’s a quarterback out there that they love that you go and get that quarterback. You don’t just pass up on a quarterback because fans are afraid they might become sam darnold. you completely ignore the opposite side of it. What happens if you don’t take that quarterback who you thought could be the next Justin herbert because you don’t think your team is ready. Meanwhile he winds up being a pro bowl caliber quarterback. and then the eagles continue to look for their quarterback and can’t acquire it or wind up having a quarterback down the road that’s not nearly as good as that one or then they get Sam darnold. If there is a Quarterback there and you scouted it correctly and you love them then you go draft them. You don’t play the game of I’ll just a wait to maybe 2 years to get it because my team is not ready right now. 

This is the week they bench him to #preservethepick

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

They are NOT hitting the market (aka, free agent market).  They are available via trade, hence the add-on comment about increasing costs exponentially.

 

Are you intentionally being obtuse about the difference between signing a QB via free agency, ala Brady (at a ridiculously low rate for his caliber) and trading for a more expensive rental?    

No- I dont see the difference, not the way we blow high draft picks anyway. drafting is such a gamble.  Howie hits about 30- 50% of 1st and 2nd rd picks, so if we take 3- 1st rd picks and trade for a proven QB? that to me is a win in the books for us. Either way you have to pay them. So the salary is a wash. Trading for a known commodity lessons the risks of actually throwing the picks away, and still not having a franchise QB.   The one thing that makes it risky is you cant ever guarantee their health. Same for picks, just with 3 picks you are likely to get at least one good player who remains relatively healthy - Again, using our hit rate on 1st rd picks with Howie in charge. 

Thats just me being pragmatic. Ideally we would hit on 70- 80% of our 1st & 2nd rd picks, and if we use that math- then you would not willingly give up all 3 -1sts this year. You would sprinkle in a pick or two conditional picks the following year, to spread out the hit.  And we still have that option. 

 

3 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

No- I dont see the difference, not the way we blow high draft picks anyway. drafting is such a gamble. 

So, because Howie can't draft... we decide to blow the draft picks in a different way and limit the team's flexibility and let the acquired aging QB languish as the rest of the roster remains majorly flawed?  

That's throwing good resources after bad.   The better alternative is to get someone better at drafting to sit in the big boy chair on draft night and relegate Howie to the closet again and not give him the power to make the picks.

For me to have any faith in the Eagles acquiring good talent, Howie must be removed from all personnel decisions. All, I say. Since Lurie will never fire him, let Howie do what he is good at, and simply keep him away from the personnel side of the business. Bring in an experienced football guy. Then it's a win- win situation in Philadelphia.

I am not watching the draft picks like everyone else, because I have zero faith in Howie, and I would expect him to blow at LEAST 2 of 3 1st round picks. He IS that bad. As far as QB choices....Wentz and Hurts.... whifffff. You want ANOTHER strike out there, if they take a QB? Fool me once. I just hope Lurie falls, hits his head, and comes to his senses before this years draft and does the right thing now. You know, like a freekin miracle.

4 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

You are talking about getting lucky, drafting a QB later in the rds, and that only has happened, what 4 times in past 20 years...

and you expect Howie can get lucky drafting one? 

 

You have way more faith than I do. 

You'd have to have a separate discussion about QBs from the FA and salary cap era onward, as historically before FA teams were stuck with whichever QB they drafted and there were many less options to build and upgrade a team.

Just talking 2000 and onward, the list of Super Bowl winning QBs is:

2000 -- Trent Dilfer.  FA signing coming off serious injury and was signed to be the backup

2001, 2003, 2004, 2014, 2016, 2018, 2020 -- Tom Brady.  6th round pick as mentioned.  FA signing with TB

2002 -- Brad Johnson.  9th round pick, journeyman QB, FA signing on his 4th team

2005, 2008 -- Ben Roethlisberger.  11th overall pick in 1st round

2006, 2015 -- Peyton Manning.  #1 overall pick with IND; FA signing with DEN coming off serious neck injury

2007, 2011 -- Eli Manning.  #1 overall pick

2009 -- Drew Brees.  2nd round pick; FA signing with serious injury concerns about his throwing shoulder

2010 -- Aaron Rodgers.  #24 overall pick in 1st round

2012 -- Joe Flacco.  #18 overall pick in first round

2013 -- Russell Wilson.  3rd round draft pick

2017 -- Nick Foles.  3rd round draft pick; FA signing brought in to be the backup

2019 -- Patrick Mahomes.  #10 overall pick in first round.

 

By my count, out of those 21 Super Bowl champions there are 10 won by a 1st round pick -- only Peyton, Eli, and Mahomes were top 10 picks, btw.  Dilfer was, but not by BAL and was brought in to backup, as mentioned.

6 SB winning QBs were FA signings.

There are different backgrounds SB-winning QBs come from.  I wouldn't say 11/21 outside the 1st round is getting lucky.

 

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

So, because Howie can't draft... we decide to blow the draft picks in a different way and limit the team's flexibility and let the acquired aging QB languish as the rest of the roster remains majorly flawed?  

That's throwing good resources after bad.   The better alternative is to get someone better at drafting to sit in the big boy chair on draft night and relegate Howie to the closet again and not give him the power to make the picks.

You act like it leaves us with no resources to build the team?  Yes I would rather we trade picks for proven players, our success rate would be higher if we did.

Yes ideally we all would like someone better to be making the picks, do you feel confident that will happen anytime soon? I do not

5 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

You'd have to have a separate discussion about QBs from the FA and salary cap era onward, as historically before FA teams were stuck with whichever QB they drafted and there were many less options to build and upgrade a team.

Just talking 2000 and onward, the list of Super Bowl winning QBs is:

2000 -- Trent Dilfer.  FA signing coming off serious injury and was signed to be the backup

2001, 2003, 2004, 2014, 2016, 2018, 2020 -- Tom Brady.  6th round pick as mentioned.  FA signing with TB

2002 -- Brad Johnson.  9th round pick, journeyman QB, FA signing on his 4th team

2005, 2008 -- Ben Roethlisberger.  11th overall pick in 1st round

2006, 2015 -- Peyton Manning.  #1 overall pick with IND; FA signing with DEN coming off serious neck injury

2007, 2011 -- Eli Manning.  #1 overall pick

2009 -- Drew Brees.  2nd round pick; FA signing with serious injury concerns about his throwing shoulder

2010 -- Aaron Rodgers.  #24 overall pick in 1st round

2012 -- Joe Flacco.  #18 overall pick in first round

2013 -- Russell Wilson.  3rd round draft pick

2017 -- Nick Foles.  3rd round draft pick; FA signing brought in to be the backup

2019 -- Patrick Mahomes.  #10 overall pick in first round.

 

By my count, out of those 21 Super Bowl champions there are 10 won by a 1st round pick -- only Peyton, Eli, and Mahomes were top 10 picks, btw.  Dilfer was, but not by BAL and was brought in to backup, as mentioned.

6 SB winning QBs were FA signings.

There are different backgrounds SB-winning QBs come from.  I wouldn't say 11/21 outside the 1st round is getting lucky.

 

Brady is a huge outlier, making this stat pointless. 
 

The NFL will no longer exist before a day 3 QB wins 7 Super Bowls again. 

12 minutes ago, Talonblood said:

For me to have any faith in the Eagles acquiring good talent, Howie must be removed from all personnel decisions. All, I say. Since Lurie will never fire him, let Howie do what he is good at, and simply keep him away from the personnel side of the business. Bring in an experienced football guy. The it's a win- win situation in Philadelphia. I am not watching the draft picks like everyone else, because I have zero faith in Howie, and I would expect him to blow at LEAST 2 of 3 1st round picks. He IS that bad. As far as QB choices....Wentz and Hurts.... whifffff. You want ANOTHER strike out there? I just hope Lurie falls, hits his head, and comes to his senses before this years draft. You know, like a freekin miracle.

Need lurie to get out of the way as well. Ross tucker discussed reagor on WIP the other day saying he has heard lurie had a huge influence on that pick because of what he saw KC do with their speed in the previous super bowl. 

also i can’t call Carson wentz a Whif because without his 13 game mvp performance the eagles aren’t on track to win that super bowl. I feel like that gets lost that those 13 games significantly matter in the end game result. They don’t win that Rams game which Carson played unbelievable until he tore his ACL. they don’t get home-field advantage without it. 

32 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

Very few times do Franchise QB actually hit the market period. 

Rodgers and Wilson happening in one year? Odds of that happening? 

From what I've been hearing on talk radio the last week or so, it's probably a better chance that Seattle will let go of Pete Carroll and keep Wilson.

Not to mention it wouldn't surprise me at all if GB smartens up and just decides to keep Rodgers.  Unless they completely fall apart the rest if the year and playoffs and Rodgers throws a hissy fit.

7 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

Brady is a huge outlier, making this stat pointless. 
 

The NFL will no longer exist before a day 4 QB wins 7 Super Bowls again. 

I would add brady winning halted guys like rodgers, mahomes, manning, rivers and mcnabb from winning more Super Bowls or a super bowl.  All those QBs could have another or one SB by their name. 

2 hours ago, Desertbirds said:

2 bolded): A good QB can win a SB with that support.

We want Pat Mahommes or Josh Allen, he wants Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson and hopes we can assemble the 85 Bears defense in a league that the rules have shifted from dominant defense to dominant passing offense.

9 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

From what I've been hearing on talk radio the last week or so, it's probably a better chance that Seattle will let go of Pete Carroll and keep Wilson.

Not to mention it wouldn't surprise me at all if GB smartens up and just decides to keep Rodgers.  Unless they completely fall apart the rest if the year and playoffs and Rodgers throws a hissy fit.

I think rodgers comes down to what happens in the playoffs tbh. If the Packers come short of making the Super Bowl I think Aaron Rodgers wants out.  I say that because I think he likely looks at the Rams and says well that team even though they likely didn’t win it but at least made the effort to go all in knowing what their timeline is. The Packers have known they’ve been close how many years Aaron Rodgers has left. And they still don’t go all in to make sure they get themselves over the top. There were moved they could have made to really put themselves over the top. Frankly I thought they should tried to trade for Zach Ertz when he became available. Because I don’t think Tonyan is anything special and Zach Ertz could’ve made that offense even more dynamic. I think Denver makes the most sense for him if he asks out. 

2 hours ago, austinfan said:

Give me a smart QB with an average arm, quick release, accuracy and the ability to anticipate the open receiver. And a feel for the pass rush in the pocket.

The bolded is the only thing Hurts has.  The other 4 things Hurts does not have, and they were listed in his draft profile.

Weaknesses

Has issues sustaining rhythm as passer with so many off-schedule throws

Inconsistent patience allowing routes to develop

Slow recognition of early throw opportunities

Leaves slants and crossers behind targets

Misses checkdowns and opts for harder throws

Deep arm dip into elongated release

Forced speedsters at OU and Alabama to slow for deep throws

Needs to get better at trusting his pocket

Quick to drop his eyes when pressure mounts

More likely to void pocket than climb, scan and throw from it

3 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

Brady is a huge outlier, making this stat pointless. 
 

The NFL will no longer exist before a day 3 QB wins 7 Super Bowls again. 

Fine, take Brady out of you like

Brees, Wilson, Johnson, Foles all won Super Bowls being drafted outside the first round.  Ben, Rodgers, Flacco won Super Bowls being drafted outside the top 10.

10 of the 14 years (excluding Brady) the QB who won the Super Bowl won it with the team that drafted him.  16 out of 21 if you include Brady.

Draft your own franchise QB and develop him.

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I think rodgers comes down to what happens in the playoffs tbh. If the Packers come short of making the Super Bowl I think Aaron Rodgers wants out.  I say that because I think he likely looks at the Rams and says well that team even though they likely didn’t win it but at least made the effort to go all in knowing what their timeline is. I think Denver makes the most sense for him if he asks out. 

I think Adams is going to be a huge problem for them too. They are already projected at $44M over the cap next year, and the talks got ugly before Adams shut them down. I can see him hitting FA and getting a monster deal somewhere else and then Rodgers will throw a pissy fit at the F.O.