2 hours ago, Infam said:

Well I think Minshew has way more swag than Hurts.

But see, if you are a full blown racist you won‘t come out and say: Uh, don‘t like the skin color. But you will jump on every opportunity, every little mistake to say: I don‘t think he is the right guy.

Not against you personally, and I sure think cancel culture is a cancer ruining movies today for me. But equality is not reached yet and I am pretty sure some of the resistance toward Hurts is rooted in that.

What a bunch of nonsense.  The QB debate has nothing to do with skin color.  I am team Minshew, does that make me racist ??

I mean, I named my first family dog Donovan for F's sake.

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

I have patience for those who deserve it. Hurts burned through his. How many more times do you want to see him throw a ball away on a 4th down play? Or at the end of a half, throwing not only short of the endzone, but throwing an INT when a simple throw away would give us a FG shot? How many more plays do you need to see a wide open WR who Hurts doesn't see because it's not the first read? How many more basic, simple mistakes do you need to see him make to realize he just doesn't have it? 

Yes, he'll get the rest of the year as the starter, and fine. But he's terrible and if he comes back next year as the starter, our season is already toast. 

So a couple of plays that it seems like every rookie or 1st year starter makes? The thing is that he needs to learn from those mistakes. You brought up a couple of situations that have happened once.

 I mean Kirk Cousins is a starting in this league, plays pretty well and one time kneeled down instead of spiking the ball.

Can you be certain that the WR that is running wide open is running the right route and was suppose to be where he is suppose to be in the progression? Can you be certain that that 'wide open' WR was the next person in the progression?

The worst part of this is that I am not even sure that Hurts is the guy or not. I wouldn't shed a tear if he was shipped off and they drafted a QB next year. I just know that this year was always going to be a learning year and it is going exactly as I thought it was going to go.

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

What a bunch of nonsense.  The QB debate has nothing to do with skin color.  I am team Minshew, does that make me racist ??

I mean, I named my first family dog Donovan for F's sake.

I’m not sure how naming your dog after Art Donovan helps your argument. 

14 minutes ago, RLC said:

There are legitimate reasons

- He makes the run game better, which is sustainable year to year for QBs who run the ball
- His teammates love him, so there's no issue bringing him back
- He makes 1.5M / Year the next 2 years, so if he's the 2022 starter, our cap problems are solved and we'll be back to even with the league by 2023/2024
- He's improved as a passer every year since college. That could reasonably continue
- Keeping Hurts > drafting a QB in this draft class or trading multiple picks for an expensive QB. Even if Hurts isn't great, Hurts + picks > available QBs

 

13 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

Thankfully you are not in the front office then.

A football player is not grown over few games, especially one that was a known project coming out of college. I have no idea if Hurts can be the man or not and 12 games into 2021 does not answer anything.

The issue here is that nobody has patience. Everyone KNEW that this was going to be a tough year. Everyone KNEW that there was going to be growing pains. Everyone KNEW that this was going to be a retooling year filled with a lot of ups and downs. Nobody seems to willing to acknowledge that now and thinks they know exactly how these players are going to be and what their ceiling is.

Hurts has regressed from last year to this year, and in fact he's regressed from the beginning of the season till now as an NFL QB. 

1 hour ago, justrelax said:

Of course to my uneducated eye it looked like Minshew underthrew about half his passes. When it comes to "arm talent" he is no better than Hurts.

Agreed

but at least he can read the field and make quick decisions

9 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I’m not sure how naming your dog after Art Donovan helps your argument. 

Or naming "a dog" after a human being is necessarily complimentary.  Could go both ways there, imo. 

"Hey Donovan, I named my dog after you.  Obviously I'm not racist"  

Donovan McNabb: "Gee, thanks". 

There isn't really a debate at the moment between Hurts and Minshew; Nick has already said Hurts will be the starting QB after the bye against WFT.

The debate for me begins heading into next season.  The Eagles could finish this season 9-8 IMO (split with WFT, win over Giants, win over DAL as the Turds will be locked out of the #1 seed and wouldn't be playing for the bye, so resting guys).  A 9-8 record could get them into the playoffs as a wildcard, but I'm not counting on a playoff berth quite yet.

There is now some increased pressure on Hurts to perform because it's been shown the backup QB can come in cold and operate the offense efficiently.  If Hurts comes back against WFT, and down the stretch -- and the Eagles play poorly on offense/finish at 7-9 -- then there will be a strong push to make a change at QB.  I don't care if Jalen Hurts is making only $1.65M against the cap, because Minshew is only making $965K against the cap.

 

2 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

So a couple of plays that it seems like every rookie or 1st year starter makes? The thing is that he needs to learn from those mistakes. You brought up a couple of situations that have happened once.

 I mean Kirk Cousins is a starting in this league, plays pretty well and one time kneeled down instead of spiking the ball.

Can you be certain that the WR that is running wide open is running the right route and was suppose to be where he is suppose to be in the progression? Can you be certain that that 'wide open' WR was the next person in the progression?

The worst part of this is that I am not even sure that Hurts is the guy or not. I wouldn't shed a tear if he was shipped off and they drafted a QB next year. I just know that this year was always going to be a learning year and it is going exactly as I thought it was going to go.

I wouldn't want Kirk Cousins on my team either, frankly.

But he can at least throw the ball and anticipate a defense's moves. There's more plays than I brought up, but those two specifically are such basic level football, it's mind blowing a QB would make those mistakes. Mind blowing. And he hasn't learned, clearly. He's a reactor, in that he sees what's happening and reacts by instinct. The good QBs are more anticipatory, they throw guys open is the common phrase. And Minshew showed yesterday that even a pedestrian-armed QB who has smarts and can anticipate, is world's better than the reaction based QBing Hurts gives you. Reaction based play is actually ideal for a RB, wait for the right hole to develop, react and make your cut upfield. 

53 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

My favorite player in the last 2 decades. 

Impossible, you racist!

7 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

Hurts has regressed from last year to this year, and in fact he's regressed from the beginning of the season till now as an NFL QB. 

Hurts is clearly better than last year. We ran like 3 throwing concepts total with Hurts last year.

12 minutes ago, downundermike said:

What a bunch of nonsense.  The QB debate has nothing to do with skin color.  I am team Minshew, does that make me racist ??

I mean, I named my first family dog Donovan for F's sake.

Last i checked the goal was to win a title. Not be a social biomarker for some projected racism.

12 minutes ago, downundermike said:

What a bunch of nonsense.  The QB debate has nothing to do with skin color.  I am team Minshew, does that make me racist ??

I mean, I named my first family dog Donovan for F's sake.

👍👍Had a chocolate lab named McNabb who passed in 2015. 
Have a yellow now named Tillman. 

2 minutes ago, RLC said:

Hurts is clearly better than last year. We ran like 3 throwing concepts total with Hurts last year.

No he isnt.

 

9 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Or naming "a dog" after a human being is necessarily complimentary.  Could go both ways there, imo. 

"Hey Donovan, I named my dog after you.  Obviously I'm not racist"  

Donovan McNabb: "Gee, thanks". 

Actually it was my kids idea, but I signed off on it as awesome.

4 minutes ago, Casey @ Bat said:

👍👍Had a chocolate lab named McNabb who passed in 2015. 
Have a yellow now named Tillman. 

I had a cat named Shady.  Looked like the most chill lazy cat ever, but at last count I think he killed 42 squirells.

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Actually it was my kids idea, but I signed off on it as awesome.

Someone let you have kids?!?!

2 minutes ago, RLC said:

Hurts is clearly better than last year. We ran like 3 throwing concepts total with Hurts last year.

But there is a serious problem in that he's not nearly as accurate in the NFL as he was at the end of his college career.

He's dropped from a 69.7% his last year at Oklahoma to 57.7% as a pro.  He was 5.6 yards per carry at Oklahoma and 5.7 yards per carry in the NFL -- so he can run; everybody knows he can run.  That part of his game doesn't need tuning, it's the passing he needs to develop.

Looking ahead to future years, his running effectiveness will unquestionably deteriorate.  How will he survive without that ability?

As he should , injury set him back this year , first td pick if he stays healthy next year .

 

 

Let's say Hurts ends up playing the rest of the way (only if he stays healthy, they won't pull him for performance I don't think).

So he'll start 16 games then. He currently has 13 passing TDs. Does anybody think he'll get to 20 TDs on the year? Is that in any way acceptable for a QB? I don't care what he costs, he cannot be the starter next year. The Eagles would be basically waving the white flag if they do so. 

2 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

But there is a serious problem in that he's not nearly as accurate in the NFL as he was at the end of his college career.

He's dropped from a 69.7% his last year at Oklahoma to 57.7% as a pro.  He was 5.6 yards per carry at Oklahoma and 5.7 yards per carry in the NFL -- so he can run; everybody knows he can run.  That part of his game doesn't need tuning, it's the passing he needs to develop.

Looking ahead to future years, his running effectiveness will unquestionably deteriorate.  How will he survive without that ability?

Ya but his benching performance last year was worse than his performance against the Giants last week!  #progress

 

13 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Agreed

but at least he can read the field and make quick decisions

Yep, Minshew made great decisions, but his arm strength looks pretty meh.

Like Taylor Heinecke with a mullet.

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I wouldn't want Kirk Cousins on my team either, frankly.

But he can at least throw the ball and anticipate a defense's moves. There's more plays than I brought up, but those two specifically are such basic level football, it's mind blowing a QB would make those mistakes. Mind blowing. And he hasn't learned, clearly. He's a reactor, in that he sees what's happening and reacts by instinct. The good QBs are more anticipatory, they throw guys open is the common phrase. And Minshew showed yesterday that even a pedestrian-armed QB who has smarts and can anticipate, is world's better than the reaction based QBing Hurts gives you. Reaction based play is actually ideal for a RB, wait for the right hole to develop, react and make your cut upfield. 

Anticipation comes with repetition and trust. Personally I think he is in his own head right now and is afraid of making a mistake, so he is not letting it rip. Minshew did not have that same type of pressure on him, so he was more willing to take a shot like that one he threw up for grabs off his back foot to Goedert.

I can probably point to several plays by established QBs over the course of the season that make no sense. Throwing short of the marker on 4th down, forcing a pass into coverage late into a half, etc. All QBs do stupid things at times. I mean Wentz was a better passer then Hurts and how many boneheaded things did he do as a QB? You know like forcing a pass instead of taking the check down? McNabb didn't know that a game could end in a tie. 

This is also why I am interested in seeing how Hurts does in the next game. Sitting on the bench and watching from the sidelines and then getting a bye week might do wonders for Hurts.

59 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

People confuse arm talent with arm strength.  Not entirely the same.  At least not in my eyes.  Just because someone can HEAVE a ball 60 years down the field, isn't the same as throwing the ball on point with zip...even 10-20 yard passes.  

 

and both are still relative to arm strength, but arm talent also includes the spin to drive it through windy conditions better, as well as the ability to deliver it from various different arm slots when necessary. And, accuracy. Bunch of different things under the "arm talent" umbrella. 

 

Hurts is the perfect type of QB you bring onto an expansion team to reel in the casual market with 'flash and swag' till you get a real QB.  Not an established market like Philly.

3 minutes ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

 

Yep, Minshew made great decisions, but his arm strength looks pretty meh.

Like Taylor Heinecke with a mullet.

 

 

 

It was hit or miss, some of the underthrows were due to the questionable platforms he chose to throw from.  He certainly doesn't have a rocket though.

9 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Looking ahead to future years, his running effectiveness will unquestionably deteriorate.  How will he survive without that ability?

That's years down the road. I'm only advocating for Hurts in 2022, then making a decision then. We don't have to force a franchise QB decision this off-season.