2 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

In front or behind the LOS?

It would be more of a Christmas bush in that case.  

17 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

There are a lot more factors involved. If it just came down to YPA, nobody would ever have to go for it on 4th down and 3rd downs would be rare and their conversions would be  around 100%. Every pass play has a much higher potential for a turnover. Every play has a chance for a fumble as you have the snap, the handoff / pitch, and carrying the ball. On passing downs, you have all those plus the potential for an INT as well. There's also a very relevant argument about time of possession and how winning that battle helps your team, keeps your defense rested and lowers the snap count for players, thus decreasing injury potential. Teams also tend to run more often to convert short yardage situations. Another less significant factor is victory formation where you lose 1-2 yards as opposed to clocking the ball with a pass which nets zero loss or gain. 

Yes, you would assume a point of diminishing returns is reached at some point, or teams would simply be passing 100%.

I’m not so much trying to evaluate passing vs running as a team and that associated ratio — but more the strategy of deploying a QB in the offense who will choose to run with the ball 30% of plays rather than throwing 90% and running himself 10%

1 hour ago, DrPhilly said:

Brady is the GOAT but it wasn’t only him all those years. 

A weak division for years helps too

39 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Still just trying to figure out why Jalen Hurts is untouchable as the starter.  He ranks as follows in passing categories:

Completions- 22nd

Attempts- 22nd

TDs- 23rd

INTs- 15th

Completion %- 28th

YPC- 24th

Yards- 22nd

QRR- 28th

 

Hurts is in the bottom1/3rd of nearly every QB statistic. The two big ones that directly relate to his talent, QBR and Completion %, he's 28th in the league.  How can anyone defend that without using his running skills as an argument? You can argue that yards per completion could be a result of the plays called or the guys catching the ball but that also could fall on his shoulders.  The NFL has never been more geared to favor the passing game and that's what he does worst.  

I'm repeating myself now and starting to kick a dead horse, but we need to know what Nick Sirianni's offense is.  Having Hurts at QB doesn't allow Sirianni to call the offense he installed and wants from his team.  Minshew is not the long-term answer at QB but he can run the offense as it's intended.  

Yeah but he runs, the game is changing and he has leadership intangibles.

That's what I'm told anyway.

5 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Yes, you would assume a point of diminishing returns is reached at some point, or teams would simply be passing 100%.

I’m not so much trying to evaluate passing vs running as a team and that associated ratio — but more the strategy of deploying a QB in the offense who will choose to run with the ball 30% of plays rather than throwing 90% and running himself 10%

It's definitely worthy of consideration. But we should also keep in mind that Cunningham averaged 8 YPC in 1990 and 7.5 YPA passing. 

25 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Yes, you would assume a point of diminishing returns is reached at some point, or teams would simply be passing 100%.

I’m not so much trying to evaluate passing vs running as a team and that associated ratio — but more the strategy of deploying a QB in the offense who will choose to run with the ball 30% of plays rather than throwing 90% and running himself 10%

By stats alone, passing is more efficient, more explosive, more effective than running.  That reality may seem to suggest teams should pass on 100% of plays.

A few issues with it…

1.  Calling offensive plays is a perfect analogue to calling pitches.  A pitcher never throws their best pitch 100% of the time, otherwise they’d get crushed.  Just throwing in a poorly mastered change up or curve makes all the difference in keeping that sinker or fastball more effective.

2.  The teams that have truly mastered passing…prime Brady with the Pats, Chiefs at their best, Peyton, Brees…they can use the entire field and have such command of all reads all over the field that they maintain that full pitchers’ arsenal just by throwing to all reads.  Those teams really can, should, and do pass 90% of the time when things are clicking.  The only thing that normalizes their ratio is all the second half running to protect big leads.  These are also the only teams in the nfl that are truly perennial contenders.

3.  Obviously, not all teams can pass like that.  The running game has become a gimmick.  It’s either the token curve ball to keep a defense off balance…or an undesirable crutch to compensate for the disability of an inadequate passing game.  Many teams, us included, have an inadequate passing game.  
 

4. Bad weather.  Every year, most teams play one game, not more, where wind/precipitation wrecks passing games (but this tends to happen later in the year in more important games).  The running game is weather insurance for these games.

 

Rhule should have stayed at Baylor , he he is Schiano 2.0  . I wouldn’t be shocked if he is let go if things don’t change drastically .

12 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

So that Joe Brady guy who was a hot coaching candidate from LSU?  Fired by the Panthers today.  Not sure if it was covered in here. 

Brought this up yesterday. Feels like brady was the made the scapegoat for their issues but they’re bigger issues with Carolina’s offense than him. Their QBs have all been mediocre or bad since taking over. Bridgewater was the best of the QBs between he, cam (at this stage) and darnold during his time as OC. Their oline is bottom half of the league and I’d argue bottom 10 in the league this year. They’ve had 7 picks in the first 3 rounds the past 2 years and spent one third on a OL. And in the last two years mccaffrey has played 10 games. Not sure how great your offense is going to be with bleh to bad QBs at the helm, your best offensive weapon going to play in just 10 of the last 33 games and your offensive line just being bad. 

40 minutes ago, justrelax said:

I have friends who own a cabin on the shore of Lake Superior, although cabin is really a misnomer. It is huge and has everything. I went up there with a group of friends - this was about 1970. January. 40 below. There was no running water because the pipes would burst and no TV because in those days everything was tubes. We lit fires in the fireplaces and turned on space heaters. There was an outhouse and we ran a rope out to it because a blizzard was due and you couldn't see three feet in front of you. Two days later it had warmed up enough inside that we could turn on the TV.

We drank a lot of brandy.

Then the weather broke, it warmed up to zero, and we went out and played football in sweatshirts. After the bitter cold, it felt like spring. 

Then we went in and drank more brandy.

Ah, sounds like a typical winter in cottage country up here! Great times! 

21 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Rhule should have stayed at Baylor , he he is Schiano 2.0  . I wouldn’t be shocked if he is let go if things don’t change drastically .

Some guys are just college coaches.  Rhule is a college coach and has the chance to be a great one.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  Last I checked, colleges are throwing serious cash/benefits at even average coaches.

The worst passing team (Jags 6.0 yards per attempt) is still more efficient in gaining yards than the best running team (Colts 5.1 yards per attempt). The issue is that football is extremely situational (Down and distance, leading or behind, time on clock, weather, field position, etc), and these different situations present themselves at different times during the drive where running is the more efficient play (Short yardage, 3rd & 4th down, clock management, weather, etc).

 

31 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Rhule should have stayed at Baylor , he he is Schiano 2.0  . I wouldn’t be shocked if he is let go if things don’t change drastically .

Hard to turn down the money.

43 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

It's definitely worthy of consideration. But we should also keep in mind that Cunningham averaged 8 YPC in 1990 and 7.5 YPA passing. 

A career year, yes -- and for that season certainly beneficial, as he was tied for 7th in the NFL with that 7.5 YPA passing.  Also his 8.0 YPC was beyond elite; historically good and in Michael Vick territory from 2006. 

Cunningham's career YPA passing was 6.8 -- which I suspect put him around the league-average for that time.  His career yards per carry with the Eagles was 6.6 -- which again is historically good.  Michael Vick was 7.0 for his career.  Hurts is quite a bit lower at 5.7 yards per rush.  

 

3 minutes ago, wussbasket said:

The worst passing team (Jags 6.0 yards per attempt) is still more efficient in gaining yards than the best running team (Colts 5.1 yards per attempt). The issue is that football is extremely situational (Down and distance, leading or behind, time on clock, weather, field position, etc), and these different situations present themselves at different times during the drive where running is the more efficient play (Short yardage, 3rd & 4th down, clock management, weather, etc).

 

Kind of why I soured on Hurts. Sometimes you need to pass.

Joe Brady spent one year as a college position coach and was able to get in the NFL at age 30 as an OC. What even is the argument?

33 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Rhule should have stayed at Baylor , he he is Schiano 2.0  . I wouldn’t be shocked if he is let go if things don’t change drastically .

Carolina’s issue run deeper than rhule. Not winning anything until you get an offensive line that isn’t bottom 10 in the league. Only way to do that is draft and develop and sign a guy or two. It was the problem even before rhule got there but they went defensive heavy his first year with a emdeaft they took entirely defense. Also they need a better QB than bridgewater, darnold and declined cam Newton. Not sure many coaches are winning more than 6-8 games with those 3 QBs as their starters. 

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Ohhhh....but hold on.  The class moron says it's a bad career choice for coaches to take their shot at the NFL......

Yeah, well.
It’s always about money, Brian Kelly didn’t leave Notre Dame for LSU because it’s a better job, same with fat Matt Rhule F’ing from college to the nfl. 

1 minute ago, dawkdaballhawk said:

Kind of why I soured on Hurts. Sometimes you need to pass.

Absolutely, and when you fall behind you need to pass to more efficiently (quickly) get in position to score points. You can still balance the ratio and utilize play-action, but passing the ball is something your QB needs to be consistently good at in order to put the team in a position to win.

2 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

He was making 500K as LSU's OC.

Coaches turn down NFL jobs all the time and with how hot of a name Brady was, I think taking the terrible position as OC in Carolina was a dumb move. Being fired for a ton of things out of his control while trying to make something work with shotty talent proves it.

I wouldnt be shocked if you gave Brady truth serum he would say the same. He cant be happy that he was handed dog poop and fired for a ton of things outside of his control

He wasn’t the OC at LSU

I hope Brady teams up with Riley at USC

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Joe Brady spent one year as a college position coach and was able to get in the NFL at age 30 as an OC. What even is the argument?

How they became the Brady bunch? 

4 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

He was making 500K as LSU's OC.

Coaches turn down NFL jobs all the time and with how hot of a name Brady was, I think taking the terrible position as OC in Carolina was a dumb move. Being fired for a ton of things out of his control while trying to make something work with shotty talent proves it.

I wouldnt be shocked if you gave Brady truth serum he would say the same. He cant be happy that he was handed dog poop and fired for a ton of things outside of his control

He was the passing game coordinator and wr coach

17 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

wrong

Yo big Steelers win on Sunday