10 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Saints also beat the Bucs twice last year.   Simply stated, the Saints know how to beat the Bucs.  That sort of thing happens with division rivals as well.  The NFL often comes down to matchups...

I don’t disagree on any of those points. I think last night was more indicative of the fact every skill position player besides gronk on Tampa Bay exited the game. The Saints offense did not play well in that game. I don’t think 9 points gets it done if those guys are all out there. It’s probably still close but i think the Bucs likely pull away later in that game. Their defense played well but then again for about 2.5 quarters they had Tyler Johnson, Scott Miller and darden as the Bucs WR in 3 WR sets. Johnson and Miller are both better as slot receivers to begin with (at least that’s what the book on Johnson was coming out of Minnesota). I think New Orleans has a defense that gives Brady fits but last night felt more like injury after injury caught up to the Bucs 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I don’t disagree on any of those points. I think last night was more indicative of the fact every skill position player besides gronk on Tampa Bay exited the game. The Saints offense did not play well in that game. I don’t think 9 points gets it done if those guys are all out there. It’s probably still close but i think the Bucs likely pull away later in that game. Their defense played well but then again for about 2.5 quarters they had Tyler Johnson, Scott Miller and darden as the Bucs WR in 3 WR sets. Johnson and Miller are both better as slot receivers to begin with (at least that’s what the book on Johnson was coming out of Minnesota). I think New Orleans has a defense that gives Brady fits but last night felt more like injury after injury caught up to the Bucs 

I didn't watch the whole game, but every time I flipped to it Brady was getting hit or sacked. Feels like the Saints DL won the game.

9 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Imagine you're Wentz, you lift the team into the playoffs in 2019. With hot garbage at WR. Then in the offseason, instead of drafting you help, they draft a guy to ostensibly replace you. The head coach seems to like him more. They re-sign Alshon, and even after Wentz showed chemistry with Fulgham, they bench the guy for Alshon who has been nothing but a snake to Wentz. Then, after the season, as you note, they want to move forward with Hurts. Why the hell would anybody want to stay in that situation? 

Add to those excellent points Wentz never really seemed to fit into the "Philly culture", such as it is.

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I didn't watch the whole game, but every time I flipped to it Brady was getting hit or sacked. Feels like the Saints DL won the game.

That's the well documented way to beat Brady. Or most any NFL Quarterback, but Brady isn't used to it.

19 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I know we hate PFF in here, but:

https://www.pff.com/draft/big-board?season=2022

 

Their big board last season was decently accurate too:

https://www.pff.com/draft/big-board?season=2021

We're going to end up with 3 Derek Barnett level players 

11 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I didn't watch the whole game, but every time I flipped to it Brady was getting hit or sacked. Feels like the Saints DL won the game.

I think some of that plays into the Saint secondary having an easier time. When Marshon Lattimore is covering their best wide receiver of Tyler Johnson after the midway point of the second quarter that’s huge.  Would have to watch the all 22 but I’m betting for most of the night those wide receivers really weren’t getting open. Hard to just throw the ball as quickly as Brady does if guys aren’t getting open or he hasn’t had many reps with Johnson, Miller and Darden to trust them. Saints DLine was really good but i think that goes hand in hand with the Bucs WRs were basically pedestrian when godwin and Evans left the game. 

I also think Bruce Arians and leftwich didn’t do a very good job in this game. their decisions on when to go for it and not go for it were ridiculous. And I thought the Bucs could actually run the ball on the Saints. when they got on the perimeter with Ronald jones they got some nice chunk plays. And then stopped doing it even though it was only a one score game. 

1 hour ago, Alphagrand said:

Actually I figured Wentz would be a bit better this season than he's been -- he's 19th in passing yards, 26th in comp%, but 10th in TD passes and a very good 23/6 TD/INT ratio.  8-12 might be a bit high for his overall performance; I'd say he's been 15-18 range.

Next season will likely be a good indicator of where his ceiling is.  

Wentz is a good QB.  The Eagles s..t the bed with him.  Howie should be fired for that alone.  But I guess Lurie would have to fire himself as well.

20 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

At some point gotta have someone out there that can make a play. Ronald jones and gronk at this stage of his career aren’t going to be enough. Brady always has issues with New Orleans. The playoff game they really benefitted from Brees turning it over as much as he did. 

Don't tell me, tell the Wentz haters. 

8 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I think some of that plays into the Saint secondary having an easier time. When Marshon Lattimore is covering their best wide receiver of Tyler Johnson after the midway point of the second quarter that’s huge.  Would have to watch the all 22 but I’m betting for most of the night those wide receivers really weren’t getting open. Hard to just throw the ball as quickly as Brady does if guys aren’t getting open or he hasn’t had many reps with Johnson, Miller and Darden to trust them. Saints DLine was really good but i think that goes hand in hand with the Bucs WRs were basically pedestrian when godwin and Evans left the game. 

I mean of course there was a significant impact in the talent downgrade...but Godwin got hurt late 2nd quarter, maybe 3rd quarter I think? And Evans was 3rd Q I'm pretty sure. The Saints d-line was def the hero last night. I think Lattimore has had good historical success against Evans too, but that's just an observation from 1000 ft above, I could be wrong. 

3 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

We're going to end up with 3 Derek Barnett level players 

Hope not.  Presuming the picks are between 15-32 and they use then all without drafting a QB and end up with Ojabo, McCreary, and Dean?  

Or Davis, Gardener, Cross?

Or Linderbaum, Booth Jr., Brisker?

2 minutes ago, greend said:

Don't tell me, tell the Wentz haters. 

True. I made the same arguments for wentz last year. wentz did not play well last year. No one is going to say he did or wasn’t at fault. but there were also a bunch of issues like poor coaching, makeshift oline for much of the year, a crappy wide receiver group and our rb also was in and out of the lineup. And ertz completely tailed off last year. 

I said this in 2019 and 2020, love doug and what he did here but after that SB he did a poor job adjusting to the talent that he had on the field and what they did best. It would take him from the beginning of the season until beginning December to finally figure it out. At least sirianni was able to figure out what he had and what we did best around the beginning of November which you still hoped he could figured it out sooner

30 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

None of this proves that Smith is better than Waddle.   It's not exactly like the Dolphins are a juggernaut offense or anything.  

 

I'm not arguing that Waddle is better than Smith, but I certainly don't think that there's a definitive case to be made one way or the other yet. 

Sure and theres no way we can tell if Hurts is better than Herbert either.  We just need more empirical data

25 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

And you bought his jersey.....didn't ya

No, did you buy Waddles?

He can run so fast

10 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I mean of course there was a significant impact in the talent downgrade...but Godwin got hurt late 2nd quarter, maybe 3rd quarter I think? And Evans was 3rd Q I'm pretty sure. The Saints d-line was def the hero last night. I think Lattimore has had good historical success against Evans too, but that's just an observation from 1000 ft above, I could be wrong. 

godwin left 13:36 of the 2nd quarter and next drive evans left around the 9 min mark of the 2nd quarter after making a big reception. 

don’t get me wrong the Saints defensive line played really well. However you also have the benefit of not having Leonard Fournette out there, not having godwin went out there for 3 quarters and not having Evans out there for 2 1/2 quarters. That allows you to play much differently on defense and be much more aggressive as gronk was about the only weapon you could fear and he’s not what he once was 

Frankly I don’t think the Saints run defense was all that great last night. Ronald Jones was picking up big chunk yards and Bruce Arians for some reason just stopped going to him in a one score game.

also wanted to make mention I really thought Bruce Arians did a horrible job last night. On that 4th and 1 they decide to take a deep shot. Meanwhile they only needed a yard as Ronald Jones was averaging 7 yards a carry. 

1 minute ago, Mike31mt said:

Sure and theres no way we can tell if Hurts is better than Herbert either.  We just need more empirical data

Nice false equivalency there.

2 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Sure and theres no way we can tell if Hurts is better than Herbert either.  We just need more empirical data

No, did you buy Waddles?

He can run so fast

Bruh, just slow it down a bit man. Both WR's are rookies, both have shown flashes that portend future successful careers. It's way too early to say one is better than the other, in any definitive way. Why do you have to get so antagonistic over that? 

Nick Saban thought Smith was better than Waddle.

Waddle has 6 games this year with double digit targets.   Smith has one and it was 10 targets

Smith > Waddle

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Nice false equivalency there.

Is it that false, though?

Its not.  I could show you QBR ratings, but we'd both know Herbert it way better.

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

 

Quid pro quo

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

Bruh, just slow it down a bit man. Both WR's are rookies, both have shown flashes that portend future successful careers. It's way too early to say one is better than the other, in any definitive way. Why do you have to get so antagonistic over that? 

4 for 4 made the claim, not me

I said that Chase is arguable but not Waddle.  Smith is better than Waddle and has been for years

5 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Is it that false, though?

Its not.  I could show you QBR ratings, but we'd both know Herbert it way better.

Yes, it is.  

Tutu Atwell is better than DeVonta Smith

7 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Bruh, just slow it down a bit man. Both WR's are rookies, both have shown flashes that portend future successful careers. It's way too early to say one is better than the other, in any definitive way. Why do you have to get so antagonistic over that? 

Frankly I think waddle doesn’t have the quarterback that fits what he does best or maximizes his talent. Tua is never going to utilize waddle’s speed to his maximum ability. I don’t think Tua’s game is down the field. it’s more on precision and accuracy. It’s kind of why I’m surprised they didn’t go after Smith especially after they signed Fuller.

Smith is dealing with not enough targets due to lack of passing attempts and hurts at QB. I still think Ja’Marr Chase is a better wide receiver than both of them but if you put Smith and waddle with Joe Burrow in Cincinnati tbeir numbers are probably way better than what they are with their current teams.

3 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

4 for 4 made the claim, not me

I said that Chase is arguable but not Waddle.  Smith is better than Waddle and has been for years

Ok man, have at it. All 3 WR rookies have shown flashes, and all 3 look like they'll have nice careers. 13 games is far too small a sample size to definitively say any is better than the others, but sure, die on that hill I guess. 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Frankly I think waddle doesn’t have the quarterback that fits what he does best or maximizes his talent. Tua is never going to utilize waddle’s speed to his maximum ability. I don’t think Tia’s game is down the field it’s more on precision and accuracy. It’s kind of why I’m surprised they didn’t go after Smith especially after they signed Fuller.

Smith is dealing with not enough targets due to lack of passing attempts and hurts at QB. I still think Ja’Marr Chase is a better wide receiver than both of them but if you put Smith and waddle with Joe Burrow in Cincinnati certain numbers are probably way better than what they are with their current teams.

Yep, see my post above. I think all 3 will have nice NFL careers, all look like they belong. So many other factors will come into play (QB play mostly), that's it's just far too early to declare any one of them better than the other 2. 

10 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Waddle has 6 games this year with double digit targets.   Smith has one and it was 20 targets

Looks like 10 targets to me

 

8 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Quid pro quo

Maybe the other half of their team will get it this week