19 hours ago, TorontoEagle said:

Haha. WRONG again. Wentz, if you want to include playoff games, played in 40/53 games, or 75% of possible games.

Sanders has played in 35 of a possible 50 games (I'm only including the 17 games this season, not the playoffs....yet). Or, 70% of possible games.

EVEN IF Sanders plays in the next 3 games to pull equal to Wentz's first 3 years, he would only play in 38/53, still less than Wentz.

 

What did I miss?  Why are you guys comparing games missed stats with a running back and a qb?  Apples and oranges no?

Good god, some people have gone so unhinged with their Hurts nonsense, that Bacarty has been the voice of reason and made me like 3 of his posts today.

3 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

What did I miss?  Why are you guys comparing games missed stats with a running back and a qb?  Apples and oranges no?

I think it all started yesterday when acenova compared Miles Sanders to Brian Westbrook, and here we are.

Speaking of Playoffs.   Which game would make you more nervous in the 1st round?
 

Brady and the Bucs (We played them earlier and lost 28-22 but Brady has a losing record of 2-3 Vs the NFC East in the Playoffs) (Eagles are 2-2 Vs the Bucs in Playoffs)

Mcvay, Stafford and the Rams (He's 0-2 All Time Vs the Birds) (Stafford Winless in Playoffs) (Eagles are 1-2 Vs the Rams in the Playoffs)

Kyler, Ertz and the Cards (We went toe to toe with them last year but the Eagles haven't won in Arizona since 2001) (Eagles are 1-2 Vs the Cards in the Playoffs)

 

The Models are saying we have a very low chance of seeing the Cowboys but sadly we are 1-3 Vs the Boys in the Playoffs

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Good god, some people have gone so unhinged with their Hurts nonsense, that Bacarty has been the voice of reason and made me like 3 of his posts today.

If you’re agreeing with him, odds are you’re on the wrong side of the argument.

12 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Cam Newton is a great comparison for Hurts.  Except Newton is bigger and more physical as a runner.  Hurts def has some of that "look at me" vibe to him, like Newton did.  I don't believe Hurts is a **** like Newton and I hope he doesn't start dressing like a Pilgrim woman like Cam does.  But as far as skillset is concerned, Hurts is Cam Newton-lite.....And as a passer in the NFL...that's not a good thing.  His arm is not as strong as Newtons was either.  But they both were one read and run guys.  

Hurts being Cam Newton lite is an upgrade from being a Taysom Hill/Tyrod Taylor combo. 
 

Aside from the first Giants game, Hurts has been above average to good the second half of the season. 

58 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

The single game is the only data set we have.  How can there be any discussion about other games that don't exist?  

Nobody should be arguing that Hurts doesn't help the run game; it should be accepted that he does -- but how much?  The important discussion is the cost/benefit of Hurts benefitting the run game vs the cost of Hurts being a pedestrian passer of the football (to this point). 

After 16 games the Eagles are 12th in the NFL in points scored -- I'd say that's pretty good. Last season they were 26th.  That should lead to a discussion of where the ceiling for the Eagles offense is.

The Ravens with a similar run offensive scheme went 13th in 2018, to 1st in 2019, to 7th in 2020, and 16th this season (mostly because of injuries at the RB and QB position).  No playoff success, it should be noted FWIW.

My point isn’t that we shouldn’t use the game as a discussion point, only that a small sample size against a clearly inferior opponent shouldn’t be used as some kind of irrefutable proof that Hurts has no effect on the ground game. And as you said, nobody should be arguing that Hurts doesn’t affect the ground game, but Mike is suggesting he doesn’t based on that very small sample size. 

As for the benefit of a better passer than Hurts on the ground game, I’m not arguing that. It’s beside the point. 

2 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

What did I miss?  Why are you guys comparing games missed stats with a running back and a qb?  Apples and oranges no?

You'd think so. But apparently we can only compare them when it's favorable to that other poster.

3 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

You'd think so. But apparently we can only compare them when it's favorable to that other poster.

I remember (I was actually about 20yrds away watching it live) when wentz thought he was a rb and shredded his knee to pieces and missed the playoffs against the Rams. (thank god because if not we never win the sb)

imagine if he played the e running back position.  He would be dead already.  Literally dead. 

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

 

I disagree.  There is lines you don't cross, and talking about or asking anything appropriate about my mother is one of them for me.

I agree with this, and I’m as thick skinned as they come. A person’s mom has no bearing on their ability or knowledge of the game. No need to go there. 

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

 

Seeing as how sensitive people can be nowadays expect alot of fines and draft picks lost. 

2 minutes ago, KINGnabb said:

Speaking of Playoffs.   Which game would make you more nervous in the 1st round?
 

Brady and the Bucs (We played them earlier and lost 28-22 but Brady has a losing record of 2-3 Vs the NFC East in the Playoffs) (Eagles are 2-2 Vs the Bucs in Playoffs)

Mcvay, Stafford and the Rams (He's 0-2 All Time Vs the Birds) (Stafford Winless in Playoffs) (Eagles are 1-2 Vs the Rams in the Playoffs)

Kyler, Ertz and the Cards (We went toe to toe with them last year but the Eagles haven't won in Arizona since 2001) (Eagles are 1-2 Vs the Cards in the Playoffs)

 

The Models are saying we have a very low chance of seeing the Cowboys but sadly we are 1-3 Vs the Boys in the Playoffs

I'd love for the Eagles to beat TB and retire Brady, but Brady will get calls from the refs and their run defense is solid -- no thanks

Stafford sucks -- I'd take a matchup against the Rams on the chance that he throws 3 INT

ARI hasn't been playing well and no Hopkins (?) -- not a bad matchup

 

I wouldn't pick the Eagles in any of those games, but ARI would be my first choice, followed by the Rams, then the Bucs last. 

9 minutes ago, Thrive said:

Man. We really have very gifted scouts on the EMB. Folks here can confidently tell you who a player will be based on 20 NFL games. 
 

Very impressive.

LOL  - I love takes like this, no there is no bais in this post what so ever.

 

So because you lack the ability to breakdown all 22 Film and objectively look at performance on the field, positives, and negatives, that means everyone else also lacks that ability. Gotcha. 

 

15 minutes ago, Next_Up said:

Disagree. Newton is uncoachable because of his ego. Hurts appears to be quite coachable. While they have similarities in skill set, Newton does not give a coach the ability to execute an offensive scheme, its the Cam Newton show, whereas Hurts appears to be a QB who plays within a scheme. Newton is moneyball, if Hurts continues to show that its about getting on base then he is a way better QB.

I'll add this with Newtons skillset being above Hurts, if he was as coachable (as you say Hurts is), he probably would have had a higher ceiling than Hurts has.

I still think it is a good comparo. and I'll disagree with the bolded. He still needs to improve to be a way better QB. Unfortunately he does not match Newtons physical abilities, arm strencth etc. I would say if Hurts improves he could become a better QB than Newton, right now they are similar. 

13 minutes ago, KINGnabb said:

Speaking of Playoffs.   Which game would make you more nervous in the 1st round?
 

Brady and the Bucs (We played them earlier and lost 28-22 but Brady has a losing record of 2-3 Vs the NFC East in the Playoffs) (Eagles are 2-2 Vs the Bucs in Playoffs)

Mcvay, Stafford and the Rams (He's 0-2 All Time Vs the Birds) (Stafford Winless in Playoffs) (Eagles are 1-2 Vs the Rams in the Playoffs)

Kyler, Ertz and the Cards (We went toe to toe with them last year but the Eagles haven't won in Arizona since 2001) (Eagles are 1-2 Vs the Cards in the Playoffs)

 

The Models are saying we have a very low chance of seeing the Cowboys but sadly we are 1-3 Vs the Boys in the Playoffs

Bucs took their foot off the gas against us in Philly, they will destroy us in Tampa.  And don't think Brady will not want to get revenge for the Super Bowl loss.

Rams, last time we played them in LA, we could not stop Tyler Higbee with Goff as his QB, what are we gonna do to deal with Kupp and Beckham.

Cards, for whatever reason we can not win in their stadium, and Ertz has that inside info.

I would rather play the Cowboys, as they already have their hands around their throat, ready for the choke job.

5 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

LOL  - I love takes like this, no there is no bais in this post what so ever.

 

So because you lack the ability to breakdown all 22 Film and objectively look at performance on the field, positives, and negatives, that means everyone else also lacks that ability. Gotcha. 

 

No way. You should feel proud of yourself. You have a skillset that most in the NFL don’t have.

And you are also very humble about it too.

4 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

My point isn’t that we shouldn’t use the game as a discussion point, only that a small sample size against a clearly inferior opponent shouldn’t be used as some kind of irrefutable proof that Hurts has no effect on the ground game. And as you said, nobody should be arguing that Hurts doesn’t affect the ground game, but Mike is suggesting he doesn’t based on that very small sample size. 

As for the benefit of a better passer than Hurts on the ground game, I’m not arguing that. It’s beside the point. 

I'll go on the flip side and say that the Jets game might illustrate that they don't need Hurts to be the QB (or maybe more exactly, need to rely on his running) to be highly effective running the ball.  

Personally, I hate when the QB is a designed portion of the running game.   Read Options are one thing, I generally don't like that, but I see the value in it, when the QB can pick up a cheap 5+ yards due to the defense making the wrong choice and then (here's the important part to me) get down and avoid contact.  What I really hate is the designed and called QB run...  unless the expectation is that the QB will pick up a touchdown, first down, etc. once again without contact (exception being QB sneak).  The QB draw called in the 3rd qtr (iirc) on 2nd and 6 at midfield bugs the crap out of me.  Hurts got about 5 yards, and took multiple shots as he ran up into the heart of the defense and struggled to get to the first down marker.

 

And ultimately, that's what I'd like to see moving forward for 2022.  (It is too late for 2021, they have to do what they have to do to win in the playoffs, and that does mean rely on Hurts' legs as much as they can.  And I fully expect that he'll sit out Saturday night to get the ankle as healthy as possible.). But moving into 2022, I would hope that while they can still use the RPO and the RO, that the designed plays where the QB keeps the ball would be extremely limited, and that Hurts would work to really elevate his game from the pocket.  That moves him from a running QB that can pass to a passing QB that can run.  The former is generally easily shut down in the playoffs, whereas the latter is a DC's worst nightmare. 

Greg Cosell is a big fan of Josh Sweat on the Eagle Eye podcast he said that if allowed to be a wide 9 rusher regularly that Sweat would be among the league leaders in sacks.

He’s still pretty high in pass rush win rate. 

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

I'll go on the flip side and say that the Jets game might illustrate that they don't need Hurts to be the QB (or maybe more exactly, need to rely on his running) to be highly effective running the ball.  

Personally, I hate when the QB is a designed portion of the running game.   Read Options are one thing, I generally don't like that, but I see the value in it, when the QB can pick up a cheap 5+ yards due to the defense making the wrong choice and then (here's the important part to me) get down and avoid contact.  What I really hate is the designed and called QB run...  unless the expectation is that the QB will pick up a touchdown, first down, etc. once again without contact (exception being QB sneak).  The QB draw called in the 3rd qtr (iirc) on 2nd and 6 at midfield bugs the crap out of me.  Hurts got about 5 yards, and took multiple shots as he ran up into the heart of the defense and struggled to get to the first down marker.

 

And ultimately, that's what I'd like to see moving forward for 2022.  (It is too late for 2021, they have to do what they have to do to win in the playoffs, and that does mean rely on Hurts' legs as much as they can.  And I fully expect that he'll sit out Saturday night to get the ankle as healthy as possible.). But moving into 2022, I would hope that while they can still use the RPO and the RO, that the designed plays where the QB keeps the ball would be extremely limited, and that Hurts would work to really elevate his game from the pocket.  That moves him from a running QB that can pass to a passing QB that can run.  The former is generally easily shut down in the playoffs, whereas the latter is a DC's worst nightmare. 

Agreed mostly. 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

Greg Cosell is a big fan of Josh Sweat on the Eagle Eye podcast he said that if allowed to be a wide 9 rusher regularly that Sweat would be among the league leaders in sacks.

He’s still pretty high in pass rush win rate. 

Maybe if we had better LBs we could unleash him more like that next year.  But, either way, this team desperately needs another edge rusher.  Barnett is likely gone, Graham is way over the hill and then there's some mid-level potential in a guy like Jackson, but mostly as a reserve.

19 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Good god, some people have gone so unhinged with their Hurts nonsense, that Bacarty has been the voice of reason and made me like 3 of his posts today.

I think it all started yesterday when acenova compared Miles Sanders to Brian Westbrook, and here we are.

Actually, it started this way...

Quote

The idea for Web-based discussion forums stemmed from newsgroups that used the Usenet system. Developed in 1979, Usenet operated as a bulletin board system and was supported by UNIX machines. As technology advanced, discussion forums were developed to operate on the Web, rather than on a UNIX-based system. Along with newsgroups, discussion forums also were similar to Internet chat. Both discussion forum and chat technologies allowed Web surfers to communicate online. Discussion forums used asynchronous communication, however, which differed from chat in that it allowed its users to post and respond to messages from any computer at any time, rather than requiring all chatters to be logged on simultaneously.

 

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Agreed mostly. 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on where we disagree.

Just to be clear: I don’t think we have to have a running QB to have a good ground game. The OL is obviously really good, and that’s the catalyst. Hurts, however, clearly helps the ground game a great deal and takes it to another level. 

41 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Just looking at free agent o-linemen for this year....and what a coup it would be to somehow wrangle Scherff away from the Redskins. With Brooks being a likely June 1 cut, I imagine his cap space could be used there. I highly doubt this happens, but a boy can dream. 

No more over 30 players.  Draft a guard, there is quite a few good ones in the first 3 rounds

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Just to be clear: I don’t think we have to have a running QB to have a good ground game. The OL is obviously really good, and that’s the catalyst. Hurts, however, clearly helps the ground game a great deal and takes it to another level. 

He also limits the passing game, so it is a zero gain for total offense.

10 minutes ago, Thrive said:

No way. You should feel proud of yourself. You have a skillset that most in the NFL don’t have.

And you are also very humble about it too.

Why thank you!  I'm sure those in the blog accept your praise highly. 

(PS. A lot of people in the blog wanted Howie to draft Justin Jefferson, instead Howie drafted Reagor- I was posting in the blog that day. I witnessed it, sometimes there are guys in the blog that are smarter than some NFL execs, that was def one of those times)

 

Sorry if our opinions dont match yours on your favorite player. Feel free to have some actual discussion about it, instead of attacking posters who disagree with your opinions.