8 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I think this gives us a sense on how Howie does vs the League.  We can argue over any selection but if you just use this data as a guideline, Howie was below average on 5 picks and above average on 3.  If you assume Howie is the key decision maker with the first round picks, his performance isn't good making the picks. You can look at later rounds and probably point to Mailata but those are scouting finds not GM finds.  He's not been good with first round picks.  

These are the facts that @austinfan does not want to hear.

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Not at the cost they put into him.  You don't make a move like they did for him, for a 5 year QB.  Sorry, he played well, but organizationally, that was a failure.  

Wentz wasn’t a draft failure. The failure was downstream from the draft. The problems were in the day in day out training/rehab and coaching.

Just now, TorontoEagle said:

I think his 2nd round is far worse than his 1st round, which is really saying something. 

I actually think his 2nd round is better than the first.  

2012 - Mychal Kendricks is 6.25

2013- Ertz is a 5.5

2014 - Jordan Matthews is a 5.75

2018 -  Goedert is likely to be above a 5.5

2019 Miles Sanders is a 7

I believe would all be above average for the pick value.  

Just now, mattwill said:

Wentz wasn’t a draft failure. The failure was downstream from the draft. The problems were in the day in day out training/rehab and coaching.

Sure... failure nonetheless though, no? 

Let's talk defense for a second...this is a very important philosophical question.

Do you think a team with an elite defense and a merely decent offense can reliably win a superbowl in 2021 and beyond? How many elite DPOY type players are there in the NFL?  How many of them change games so consistently that you would say contending teams have actually built around them?

If there is hesitation in your answers, it matters.  We've got 3 first round picks coming up in the next draft and a lot of people want all 3 to be defensive players.  Sure, our defense has holes that need to be addressed.  But if a defense can't carry you to a title, does it impact the way you invest in that side of the ball?

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Sure... failure nonetheless though, no? 

No - The pick wasn't the failure.  

Just now, NCiggles said:

I actually think his 2nd round is better than the first.  

2012 - Mychal Kendricks is 6.25

2013- Ertz is a 5.5

2014 - Jordan Matthews is a 5.75

2018 -  Goedert is likely to be above a 5.5

2019 Miles Sanders is a 7

I believe would all be above average for the pick value.  

What about Jarrett, Allen, Jones and Rowe?  I'd bet all of them are far below average.  Jarrett should basically be a zero since he was basically a giant nothing for the Eagles.

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

No - The pick wasn't the failure.  

Pick... good choice.  Results from the pick... bad.  Here we are 5 years later discussing who the long term answer at QB is.

While Howie has been average at best with drafting players, I will also argue that the problems are much deeper than just drafting the players.

I really believe there has been a big problem with the coaching staff that just gets sweeped under the rug. Granted that is also Howies issue, but there were major problems, especially during the Pederson era, with training and coaching young players.

Just watching Rasul Douglas balling out in Green Bay and then hearing that he NEVER learned how to watch film until he got there is just one example of how the staff has failed.

6 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Let's talk defense for a second...this is a very important philosophical question.

Do you think a team with an elite defense and a merely decent offense can reliably win a superbowl in 2021 and beyond? How many elite DPOY type players are there in the NFL?  How many of them change games so consistently that you would say contending teams have actually built around them?

If there is hesitation in your answers, it matters.  We've got 3 first round picks coming up in the next draft and a lot of people want all 3 to be defensive players.  Sure, our defense has holes that need to be addressed.  But if a defense can't carry you to a title, does it impact the way you invest in that side of the ball?

Here are the top 10 defenses in points allowed, only two of them have a legitimate shot at winning the Super Bowl this year, Buffalo and Green Bay.  So my answer to the bolded is no.

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

What about Jarrett, Allen, Jones and Rowe?  I'd bet all of them are far below average.  Jarrett should basically be a zero since he was basically a giant nothing for the Eagles.

He played for the Jets and I think Allen is probably average not below average.  Even if they were all below average picks, I think Howie is still picking better in the 2nd round than the first.  

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Let's talk defense for a second...this is a very important philosophical question.

Do you think a team with an elite defense and a merely decent offense can reliably win a superbowl in 2021 and beyond? How many elite DPOY type players are there in the NFL?  How many of them change games so consistently that you would say contending teams have actually built around them?

If there is hesitation in your answers, it matters.  We've got 3 first round picks coming up in the next draft and a lot of people want all 3 to be defensive players.  Sure, our defense has holes that need to be addressed.  But if a defense can't carry you to a title, does it impact the way you invest in that side of the ball?

Aside from the QB upgrade, which looks to be not in the cards this year, what position on offense could you realistically upgrade? 2nd WR, sure, but with our current offense/QB, it's a bit of a waste, IMO. TE, WR1, RB1 (Sanders) are set for 2022. I think we should add youth/depth/talent to RB, as we are going to need it. 

On defense, it's not necessarily about getting an elite, DPOY guy. We're so barren on that side of the ball, that functional starters would represent a significant upgrade. Specifically at DE, LB and safety. 

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Let's talk defense for a second...this is a very important philosophical question.

Do you think a team with an elite defense and a merely decent offense can reliably win a superbowl in 2021 and beyond? How many elite DPOY type players are there in the NFL?  How many of them change games so consistently that you would say contending teams have actually built around them?

If there is hesitation in your answers, it matters.  We've got 3 first round picks coming up in the next draft and a lot of people want all 3 to be defensive players.  Sure, our defense has holes that need to be addressed.  But if a defense can't carry you to a title, does it impact the way you invest in that side of the ball?

I think that a defensive minded team can win a Super Bowl.   The question is can this team be built through the draft into that kind of defense with the current guy at the helm making the picks?  

The last picks on defense that were hit by Howie were Graham in 2010, Cox and Kendricks in 2012.  Since then, its been pretty much an 0-for-X.   Maybe throw the bone out for Hicks in the 3rd round, but I think he was a Chip pick.   Howie hasn't shown any aptitude for picking defensive players in the first or second round.

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Here are the top 10 defenses in points allowed, only two of them have a legitimate shot at winning the Super Bowl this year, Buffalo and Green Bay.  So my answer to the bolded is no.

Honestly, though unlikely....Dallas and New England have legit shots. Tennessee too, if Henry returns. 

2 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I actually think his 2nd round is better than the first.  

2012 - Mychal Kendricks is 6.25

2013- Ertz is a 5.5

2014 - Jordan Matthews is a 5.75

2018 -  Goedert is likely to be above a 5.5

2019 Miles Sanders is a 7

I believe would all be above average for the pick value.  

Put me in coach -  give me the 2nd round to pick just TEs/RBs/LBs…  That should be like making free throws, as they are devalued positions that aren’t picked clean in the 1st.

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Pick... good choice.  Results from the pick... bad.  Here we are 5 years later discussing who the long term answer at QB is.

I mean c'mon you can't say the pick didn't result in the Super Bowl.  Where this team is with the QB has more to do with the failure to draft talent at WR than Wentz.  

2 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

He played for the Jets and I think Allen is probably average not below average.  Even if they were all below average picks, I think Howie is still picking better in the 2nd round than the first.  

Who gives a rat's backside if he played for the JETS?  He was drafted to play for the EAGLES, was he not, and failed to do anything.   And he played one year for the Jets and was a 'meh' player for that year as well.

25 minutes ago, greend said:

It was tossed around at the time

Really?  It was about Braman.  If you recall within 3 years under Braman the following players were allowed to walk:

Reggie, Simmons, Allen, Joyner, Hopkins, Waters, Jackson, Byars.  

8 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Sure... failure nonetheless though, no? 

And the key contributors to that failure have been held accountable and are gone.

4 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

While Howie has been average at best with drafting players, I will also argue that the problems are much deeper than just drafting the players.

I really believe there has been a big problem with the coaching staff that just gets sweeped under the rug. Granted that is also Howies issue, but there were major problems, especially during the Pederson era, with training and coaching young players.

Just watching Rasul Douglas balling out in Green Bay and then hearing that he NEVER learned how to watch film until he got there is just one example of how the staff has failed.

Rasul is interesting. He bounced around to like 5 different teams before finding success in GB. So I don't know that you can place it all on the Pederson staff. But your overall point stands, they never really developed young players, on either side of the ball. And when a guy showed some promise (Fulgham, who yes, had his issues, but should never have been benched for Alshon in the middle of his hot streak), they'd go back to relying on the vets who carried them to 52. 

4 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Honestly, though unlikely....Dallas and New England have legit shots. Tennessee too, if Henry returns. 

Dallas will choke in the playoffs per usual, gonna be tough for a rookie QB ( Mac Jones ) to go toe to toe with the top tier AFC QB's in a shoot out, and, Ryan Tannehill.

I still think my Super Bowl prediction of Bills v Rams is the outcome.

7 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Pick... good choice.  Results from the pick... bad.  Here we are 5 years later discussing who the long term answer at QB is.

That is on the coaching staff not the drafting staff.  

Just now, NCiggles said:

I mean c'mon you can't say the pick didn't result in the Super Bowl.  Where this team is with the QB has more to do with the failure to draft talent at WR than Wentz.  

Yes.  I agree.   The Wentz issue wasn't the pick, but all the things that went on around that.  They invested 3 1st round picks into that selection and didn't manage it properly.  

Buy a new bike... leave it out in the yard and let it get rained on for a few years and rust out.  The decision to buy the bike isn't a bad one, but the way it was handled is.  Of course, ulimately, the purchase turns into a waste of resources as it doesn't last as long as it should have.

1 minute ago, mattwill said:

And the key contributors to that failure have been held accountable and are gone.

Nope.  There's still one very much still in place.

1 minute ago, mattwill said:

That is on the coaching staff not the drafting staff.  

That is on the management of the roster.

2 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

Really?  It was about Braman.  If you recall within 3 years under Braman the following players were allowed to walk:

Reggie, Simmons, Allen, Joyner, Hopkins, Waters, Jackson, Byars.  

Of course it was about him. That doesn't stop haters from voicing their stupid opinions.