4 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Wentz had already fallen apart prior to the end of the 2019 season.  So drafting Hurts was incidental 

Yeah, he fell apart when he dragged the practice squad kicking and screaming into the playoffs.  GTFO with that crap.

As I said, for his efforts in 2019, they drafted him Reagor ( well on his way to being a bust ) and a backup QB.

8 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

My favorite thing from last year might have been the eagles re-signing Jason peters and then asking peters who had never played guard to try to play guard after 15 years at LT. And then he got hurt once again…. Which surprised….. no one. 

I was on record when they signed him and Djax as well as when they resigned Alshon - my exact words - "this will not end well" 

3 for 3 on those. batting 1000%

1 minute ago, mattwill said:

Wentz had already fallen apart prior to the end of the 2019 season.  So drafting Hurts was incidental 

Nope

7 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Wentz did not have enough personal intestinal fortitude to man up and lead the team through that adversity.  Would Tom Brady have let those hurdles get in his way?  Wentz was/is deficient from the neck up.

I don't know what you are talking about. Granted, the 2020 year was a cluster F.  No one, not even Brady, would have success with that roster.

The 2019 season is not an example of Wentz's failure. According to Wikipedia: "Wentz finished the 2019 season with 4,039 passing yards, 27 touchdowns, and seven interceptions.^[87] He became the first quarterback in franchise history to pass for at least 4,000 yards^[88] and the first in the NFL to do so without any receiver catching at least 500 yards."

8 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

Reagor was supposed to help Wentz.  That ended up being a bad choice.  Howie pretty much took the worse WR out of all those that were left.  It's because he focused on needing speed instead of looking at everything Reagor can do.  But the pick was intended to help Wentz.  Hurts was a dumb pick. I understand needing a quality backup given Carson's injury history but it was still stupid.

Lots of teams passed on David and Wagner.

Not really, Wagner went the very next pick, the Seahawks were probably laughing the same way the Vikes were when Jefferson fell to them. David went in round 2 as well. All three of these guys were rated in the same type of bracket so it's not as if David and Wagner weren't rated high. Howie had his pick of all 3 and just Howie'd it all up. 

The guy most responsible is 100% still here. He got his scape goat fired and Wentz gtfoh 

5 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Mmmmm .... actually Brady suffered from some of the same roster deficiencies Wentz did in 2020, especially at WR.  The Pats brought in AB at his request, then had to flush him out the door in short order.  What did Brady do??  He got the hell out -- to TB.  Just like Wentz did.

Fair enough.

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Yeah, he fell apart when he dragged the practice squad kicking and screaming into the playoffs.  GTFO with that crap.

As I said, for his efforts in 2019, they drafted him Reagor ( well on his way to being a bust ) and a backup QB.

I give credit to Wentz for that magical 4 game run in 2019 but he also faced 4 bad teams.  Kinda like this year.

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Dragging a roster of practice squad guys into the 2019 playoffs 100% disagrees with you.  For his efforts, he was rewarded with Reagor ( who is well on his way to being a bust ) and a backup QB.

I know we would all like to forget the last 2 years of the Petersen era, but it's hard to forget Wentz  putting the team on his back at the end of 2019 throwing to Ward, and a bunch of WR's I cant even name anymore.... all practice squad guys, and winning a bunch of games. 

WIll happily throw Dougy under the bus for not running more. Had Doug done what Siri is doing this year, Both Wentz and Doug would likely still be here. But Howie deserves a lion share of blame with his failings of putting a team together. 

19 minutes ago, mattwill said:

I agree with your final sentence.  That was in my opinion 75% on Doug’s shoulders.

Seems you bought the team's PR spin and put everything on Doug.  He's the fall guy.  

 

But, even if it was 75% on Doug... then the other 25% falls on Howie, doesn't it?   So, in that case all of the people responsible aren't gone, are they?

1 minute ago, 315Eagles said:

I give credit to Wentz for that magical 4 game run in 2019 but he also faced 4 bad teams.  Kinda like this year.

It's fair, but this year the coach is helping with using our run game, and our oline and WR's options are far better.

12 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

Reagor was supposed to help Wentz.  That ended up being a bad choice.  Howie pretty much took the worse WR out of all those that were left. 

 

Yep, all the guys behind him have had impact in the NFL.  Reagor is a major bust compared to these guys.

 

Just now, Ipiggles said:

I know we would all like to forget the last 2 years of the Petersen era, but it's hard to forget Wentz  putting the team on his back at the end of 2019 throwing to Ward, and a bunch of WR's I cant even name anymore.... all practice squad guys, and winning a bunch of games. 

WIll happily throw Dougy under the bus for not running more. Had Doug done what Siri is doing this year, Both Wentz and Doug would likely still be here. But Howie deserves a lion share of blame with his failings of putting a team together. 

Pretty sure one of the issues between Doug and Wentz was Wentz checking to passes too often at the LOS.

Just now, downundermike said:

Yep, all the guys behind him have had impact in the NFL.  Reagor is a major bust compared to these guys.

And that's just the WRs taken behind him. 

5 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

I give credit to Wentz for that magical 4 game run in 2019 but he also faced 4 bad teams.  Kinda like this year.

And Jalen Hurts is being treated as the second coming.  Wentz had to do it himself and did not have a running game carrying him.

3 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

I don't know what you are talking about. Granted, the 2020 year was a cluster F.  No one, not even Brady, would have success with that roster.

The 2019 season is not an example of Wentz's failure. According to Wikipedia: "Wentz finished the 2019 season with 4,039 passing yards, 27 touchdowns, and seven interceptions.^[87] He became the first quarterback in franchise history to pass for at least 4,000 yards^[88] and the first in the NFL to do so without any receiver catching at least 500 yards."

The stats don’t lie and in large part I see them as confirmation of Wentz’s conversion to hero ball.  That conversion exposed him to increased injury risk ant significantly increased turnover frequency.  Then when confronted with his own vulnerabilities he wasn’t able to handle not being the hero.

2 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

I give credit to Wentz for that magical 4 game run in 2019 but he also faced 4 bad teams.  Kinda like this year.

that’s why a couple weeks ago I made the same comparison that the end of 2019 is very similar to the end of this year with how many bad teams they wound up facing.

Interesting betting note the eagles are 1-5 against the spread against teams with a winning record. 

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

 

Yep, all the guys behind him have had impact in the NFL.  Reagor is a major bust compared to these guys.

 

Pretty damn sorry...

5 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

Not really, Wagner went the very next pick, the Seahawks were probably laughing the same way the Vikes were when Jefferson fell to them. David went in round 2 as well. All three of these guys were rated in the same type of bracket so it's not as if David and Wagner weren't rated high. How just Howie'd it all up. 

I get what you're saying but I mean teams passed on David and Wagner from the 1st round and some again in the 2nd.

I always thought Kendricks was a good player.  Not on their level but still.

First round draft vs 2nd round draft since 2014

1st round -- Marcus Smith, Nelson Agholor, Carson Wentz, Derek Barnett, Andre Dillard, Jalen Reagor, DeVonta Smith

2nd round -- Jordan Matthews, Eric Rowe, Sidney Jones, Dallas Goedert, Miles Sanders, JJAW, Jalen Hurts, Landon Dickerson

 

I'm thinking I prefer that group of 2nd rounders -- even if they'd been drafted in comparable slots instead of a round later.  

Under-the-radar terrible pick turned out to be Barnett because of the players missed out on.  Marlon Humphrey, Jonathan Allen, Tre'Davious White.  I'd have even taken OJ Howard or Malik Hooker over him.  Barnett does have the SB fumble recovery, though.

 

2 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Pretty sure one of the issues between Doug and Wentz was Wentz checking to passes too often at the LOS.

Hero ball

16 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Wentz did not have enough personal intestinal fortitude to man up and lead the team through that adversity.  Would Tom Brady have let those hurdles get in his way?  Wentz was/is deficient from the neck up.

Actually... he did and the 2019 team made the playoffs almost entirely due to his sheer will and determination down the stretch.  

But, when asked to do it again in 2020, he couldn't.  Howie was equally deficient in fixing what was wrong with the 2019 team (aka, the WR position) and compounded it by allowing the OL to fall apart due to a failure to bring in young talent to fill in behind the aging vets.  

 

Fortunately, the OL now has some younger talent... Mailata now has games under his belt and seems to be a real asset, but when the time came in 2020 to throw him out there... he wasn't given a shot until it was forced on the team.  They also now have a young OG in Dickerson.  Then they were bringing in Jamon Brown to adjust his gloves rather than play the game.  And they were bringing back the oft-injured highly ineffective aged Jason Peters to fill in at RG when Brooks went down... again. 

 

Wentz may be a lot of things, but deficient from the neck up isn't one of them.  You are better than this, Matt.  You've bought the company line and are ignoring the reality of what the root problems of the 2019 and 2020 team really were... and who was ultimately culpable for that roster construction.

1 minute ago, mattwill said:

The stats don’t lie and in large part I see them as confirmation of Wentz’s conversion to hero ball.  That conversion exposed him to increased injury risk ant significantly increased turnover frequency.  Then when confronted with his own vulnerabilities he wasn’t able to handle not being the hero.

Okay Matt, now explain to us what exactly was Wentz supposed to do to be a "better leader" when his team outright sucked that year 2019?   

5 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

Not really, Wagner went the very next pick, the Seahawks were probably laughing the same way the Vikes were when Jefferson fell to them. David went in round 2 as well. All three of these guys were rated in the same type of bracket so it's not as if David and Wagner weren't rated high. How just Howie'd it all up. 

The three linebackers selected after Kendricks (Wagner, Zach Brown, and David), all went to the Pro Bowl.

That said, we won a SB with Kendricks.  He was a key contributor.  And if we had drafted one of the other three, think of all of the subsequent timelines that do not lead to SB LVII.

I would not want to change anything before 2/4/18.

4 minutes ago, downundermike said:

 

Yep, all the guys behind him have had impact in the NFL.  Reagor is a major bust compared to these guys.

 

What really worries me about Reagor is Sirianni is a WR coach, thats his specialty.  If Reagor can't develop with him there's probably no hope.