1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

Drafting a player in round 2 who developed into a top-10 player at his position is never a problem. Our coaching staff failed to make it work, but the pick was a good one. 

The direction they went in was a problem.

Dallas Goedert is consensus top 10?  Maybe he is...but it seems a bit optimistic for a guy who hasn't topped 600 yards and 5 TDs in a season...and that was 2 years ago.

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

 

I said it in April 2018, in the 2018 season, in 2019, 2020, and will again...

Dallas Goedert was a great TE prospect, will likely be a very good NFL TE that "checks the box" as a good pick...but his selection represented one of the biggest recent steps the franchise took in the wrong direction.  

DJ Chark was a science lab prototype Z WR available at that pick (some ups and downs in his career, no one to throw him the ball).  They had recycled trash at Z for a few years at this point.

Instead of accepting the modern day NFL and investing in some speed and deep presence to their offense, they fully committed to 12 personnel by selecting Goedert...and also extended Alshon (first extension), giving them 12 personnel, a #1 WR who was a slow possession guy, and a bargain basemen old veteran as the token outside speed.  We all saw the result play out with that stodgy, slow, congested offense with zero separation.

Goedert himself is not the problem...but selecting him was their first major investment in that failed post-superbowl offense.

If picking Goedert over Chark is your gripe about the 2018 draft then it still was a very good draft.  Chark has had 1 stand out season so far in the NFL and has not shown the progress you want to see out of a WR (he’s actually regressed statistically.) 

Goedert has been the #2 TE his entire career so far (other than maybe this season) and hasn’t received nearly the amount of targets that a #1 TE receives. 

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

The direction they went in was a problem.

Dallas Goedert is consensus top 10?  Maybe he is...but it seems a bit optimistic for a guy who hasn't topped 600 yards and 5 TDs in a season...and that was 2 years ago.

And an elite blocker. That matters. 

16 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Still bad.  Used your top pick on a TE when we had a prime Ertz.  Lucked into Mailata being serviceable to good, hopefully great.  Still more to see on Sweat.  Just because they dumped money on Sweat and Mailata this week doesn’t mean they have shown to deserve it and it doesn’t make it was a good draft.   But you wouldn’t understand that.  We traded draft picks for Ajayi, Darby and Wentz in that draft.  So we had a total of 5 pics. So yeah. Not a good draft.  But by Lowie’s standards, I can understand why you’re keying on it.  Maybe.   

Coming off the Super Bowl win, the draft was pretty much  BPA. We did have a need at TE2 since Celek wasn't coming back and Burton left in free agency. Both of those guys were effective receivers and Celek was a terrific blocker. 

I couldn't care less if we "lucked into" anything. We had our fair share of bad luck from 2018-2020. Luck doesn't change the outcome.

12 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

 

I said it in April 2018, in the 2018 season, in 2019, 2020, and will again...

Dallas Goedert was a great TE prospect, will likely be a very good NFL TE that "checks the box" as a good pick...but his selection represented one of the biggest recent steps the franchise took in the wrong direction.  

DJ Chark was a science lab prototype Z WR available at that pick (some ups and downs in his career, no one to throw him the ball).  They had recycled trash at Z for a few years at this point.

Instead of accepting the modern day NFL and investing in some speed and deep presence to their offense, they fully committed to 12 personnel by selecting Goedert...and also extended Alshon (first extension), giving them 12 personnel, a #1 WR who was a slow possession guy, and a bargain basemen old veteran as the token outside speed.  We all saw the result play out with that stodgy, slow, congested offense with zero separation.

Goedert himself is not the problem...but selecting him was their first major investment in that failed post-superbowl offense.

Getting a TE2 was a need for this team. The only move that hurt us was trying to "upgrade" over Torrey Smith and his contract. We didn't need Chark. We only needed a Z that could stay healthy (like T. Smith).

5 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

If picking Goedert over Chark is your gripe about the 2018 draft then it still was a very good draft.  Chark has had 1 stand out season so far in the NFL and has not shown the progress you want to see out of a WR (he’s actually regressed statistically.) 

Goedert has been the #2 TE his entire career so far (other than maybe this season) and hasn’t received nearly the amount of targets that a #1 TE receives. 

Goedert regressed statistically too.  Different narrative when it's not the Eagles...

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I can.  I give all credit to Mailata and Stoutland for JM becoming a player.  To give the Eagles the credit for taking a flyer in the 7th round on a player who never played football before, is pretty desperate.  Again, Goedert is a good player.  But we had much bigger needs that year than a backup TE with our first pick. And his production has still not supported the pick.  Mostly because he’s had Ertz in front of him.  Maddox has been on this team, as long as he has, because we have been so GD bad at that position the past 4 years.  Someone had to play, for God’s sake.  He’s a JAG at corner.  Sweat, good value at 4.  Ok. Is he a double digit sack guy?  I hope so.  Not as of yet.  Only reason that draft was brought up was because of the signings this week.  Which is pretty silly and again, a desperate attempt at giving a bad FO some….any ….. credit.  

Hitting on 80% of your draft picks is actually considered "monumental” by NFL standards.  And yes, Maddox is still considered a "hit” since he either starts or gets significant playing time and likely will for the remainder of his career.  

Put me in the camp the credit for Mailata goes to 

1. Mailata 

2. Stoutland 

3. Peters

4. Ostman

5. Howie 

He’s a guy with elite size and athleticism, he just never played football. It’s not hard to scout and to take a risk in the 7th on a complete unknown who has all the intangibles and things you can’t teach. 
 

With that said, the 2018 draft is still good considering the lack of picks and the overall contributions from players. 

Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I can.  I give all credit to Mailata and Stoutland for JM becoming a player.  To give the Eagles the credit for taking a flyer in the 7th round on a player who never played football before, is pretty desperate.  Again, Goedert is a good player.  But we had much bigger needs that year than a backup TE with our first pick. And his production has still not supported the pick.  Mostly because he’s had Ertz in front of him.  Maddox has been on this team, as long as he has, because we have been so GD bad at that position the past 4 years.  Someone had to play, for God’s sake.  He’s a JAG at corner.  Sweat, good value at 4.  Ok. Is he a double digit sack guy?  I hope so.  Not as of yet.  Only reason that draft was brought up was because of the signings this week.  Which is pretty silly and again, a desperate attempt at giving a bad FO some….any ….. credit.  

Howie traded up for Mailata. He was smart enough to listen to Stoutland and his scouts who said it was a lottery ticket worth picking. 

Five picks and they came away with a top 10 TE, a starting LT, a nickel back and at worst a really good third DE is objectively a good draft. To suggest otherwise is absurd.

Hell, they even somehow were able to trade their one bad pick for a sixth-round pick.

 

@LeanMeanGM

49ers 27

Eagles 30

*Hot Take: Gainwell 2 TDs

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

 It was NOT a need in the second round and your first pick.  They took him because the Cowboys wanted him.  They were again, the arrogant smartest guys in the room.  Revisionism doesn’t change that.   

Lol. They drafted him because they wanted him. They traded up ahead of the Cowboys because they thought Dallas would pick him. 

You’re being absurd. 

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

 It was NOT a need in the second round and your first pick.  They took him because the Cowboys wanted him.  They were again, the arrogant smartest guys in the room.  Revisionism doesn’t change that.   

It was a need for a team that didn't have a TE2 and likes to play 12 personnel. No revision on this end. Dallas surely would have drafted him if we hadn't moved ahead to get him.

What was our bigger need heading into 2018? We had Darby and Mills at corner and just drafted Jones the year before.

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Goedert regressed statistically too.  Different narrative when it's not the Eagles...

Apples and Oranges.  Goedert has never received the amount of targets needed as a #2 TE.  And despite that, he’s still regarded as a top 10-12 TE in the NFL. Chark is (at best) a top 25-30 WR.  

11 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

 

Goedert has been the #2 TE his entire career so far (other than maybe this season) and hasn’t received nearly the amount of targets that a #1 TE receives. 

As part of our horrific 12 personnel package, Goedert was on the field getting pretty close to TE1 targets.  He wasn't able to stay healthy last year and targets were down overall as a result...but still similar to 2019 on a per game basis when he had 87 targets, which is right in line with a lot of the non Kelce/Waller/Kittle TEs.

 

5 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Coming from the Blog drunk, you mean nothing to me.  You asked.  I answered.  Sorry your Pollyanna ass can’t handle opinions that don’t meet your own.  4 out of 5 starters.  On a 4 win team last year.  LOL.  Do you even read what you type?  

Not only have you proven yourself to be a belligerent knucklehead to just about everyone in this blog, now you’re showing everyone that your hatred of the Eagles’ front office has turned you into a blubbering idiot.  Congrats.  👍

Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Top 10 tight end?  Talent wise.  Sure.  But hard to see that through when you got Ertz in front of him.  You cherry pick one time where they listened to their coaches with the JM pick in the 7th round.   I am pretty positive, their coaches weren’t telling them.  Yeah with our first pick in the draft we need to draft our #2 Tight End.  But yeah.  They listened to the coaches.  

You think Howie went rogue and drafted a No. 2 TE just because? You really think that?

3 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Apples and Oranges.  Goedert has never received the amount of targets needed as a #2 TE.  And despite that, he’s still regarded as a top 10-12 TE in the NFL. Chark is (at best) a top 25-30 WR.  

And yet one has been to a pro-bowl and has almost 2k receiving yards.  But the regression doesn't apply to Goedert, who still got #1 TE targets.

4 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

It was a need for a team that didn't have a TE2 and likes to play 12 personnel. No revision on this end. Dallas surely would have drafted him if we hadn't moved ahead to get him.

What was our bigger need heading into 2018? We had Darby and Mills at corner and just drafted Jones the year before.

They liked to play 12 after drafting Goedert. They were no where near the level of 12 usage in 2016 and 2017 as they were after drafting him. 

Just now, Ace Nova said:

Not only have you proven yourself to be a belligerent knucklehead to just about everyone in this blog, now your showing everyone that your hatred of the Eagles’ front office has turned you into a blubbering idiot.  Congrats.  👍

I expect Eagles fans to complain when the team messes up, but some girls just want to **** about everything. 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

You think Howie went rogue and drafted a No. 2 TE just because? You really think that?

He drafted a #2 TE because he wanted to build the offense around 12 personnel...

Just now, eagle45 said:

He drafted a #2 TE because he wanted to build the offense around 12 personnel...

Because Howie did or Doug?

Just now, ManuManu said:

Because Howie did or Doug?

My answer is Howie.  But no one can answer that either way and convince the other side.

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

They liked to play 12 personnel because they drafted a TE with their first pick and needed to get him on the field.  Look what our offense has done the last 4 years with that 12 personal.  12 personnel is not today’s NFL.  

 

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

They liked to play 12 after drafting Goedert. They were no where near the level of 12 usage in 2016 and 2017 as they were after drafting him. 

We used it a lot in 2017. We even used it on the most memorable play in Eagles history. 

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

He drafted a #2 TE because he wanted to build the offense around 12 personnel...

Why did they want to build the offense around 12 personnel?  Could it have anything to do with Carson Wentz?  I wonder.