1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

My answer is Howie.  But no one can answer that either way and convince the other side.

I believe 100 percent that Doug wanted to lean more into 12 personnel, and Goedert was very high on their board so they took him. I recall reports at the time saying the Eagles were between Goedert and Courtland Sutton at 32. 

12 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Put me in the camp the credit for Mailata goes to 

1. Mailata 

2. Stoutland 

3. Peters

4. Ostman

5. Howie 

He’s a guy with elite size and athleticism, he just never played football. It’s not hard to scout and to take a risk in the 7th on a complete unknown who has all the intangibles and things you can’t teach. 
 

With that said, the 2018 draft is still good considering the lack of picks and the overall contributions from players. 

Can’t blame Howie when they miss early and credit the player and coaches when he hits late.

Only thing we know for certain is Donahoe did not want Milton Williams lol. 

I remember arguing with all of you that the 12 personnel was going to fail...and all I kept hearing about was that it's a nightmare for defenses.  

What is a defense going to do?  5 DBs?  Goedert blocks and we run it down your throat.  4 DBs?  Throw all over you.

Well that never happened.

As far as Doug v Howie....

Doug was a puppet HC.  I realize this involves crediting Howie for the SB, and I am fine with doing that....but do you really think "Big-balls Doug" was the one behind going for it on all those 4th downs 2017-2020?  Didn't we already see signs of that again from Siriani last week?

How many tendencies and philosophies have now been conserved across multiple coaching regimes?  The approach to preseason games, analytics, 4th down...Doug wasn't the one making the calls on that.  And they sure as hell weren't going to allow him to dictate the offensive equivalent of switching between 4-3 and 3-4 and just quietly go get him the players he wanted to make it happen.

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

LOL.  That’s cute.  You and Nova should partner up in here.  The two of you could rub two thoughts together and maybe land on something relevant one day.  Again you are the guy that was in here celebrating how the Eagles offense supposedly looked in practice against the preseason #9 ranked defense this past summer.  I wouldn’t dream of making something like that up.  You should be proud.  

It must burn you up that the Eagles looked good offensively (and defensively) in the season opener --- thus validating the importance of good practice showings. 

As bad as Howie has been with his picks and his meddling, I do think he takes into account what his coaching staff wants in terms of positions and player types. Doug wanted to run more two-TE, so he got a good TE in Goedert. Doug wanted more speed so he drafted Reagor. That doesn’t mean his choices were the correct ones…

1 hour ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Hahaha.  Whatever makes you feel better about yourself and your dumb questions. Do us a favor.  Don’t drink and post tomorrow.  Better yet.  Just don’t post.  😂  So bent that I answered your question with something you didn’t want to hear.  

What’s worse? Admitting that you drank during a couple of Eagles games years ago (like hundreds of thousands of fans do during every game) but was still man enough to eat crow about it the next day?

… or…being belligerent (and apparently sober) 90%of the time (You).  What’s your excuse? 

There's nothing wrong with using 12 personnel properly (like we did in 2017). But when you have to rely on it because your WRs are either ineffective or injured, it becomes less advantageous overall. 

5 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

 

We used it a lot in 2017. We even used it on the most memorable play in Eagles history. 

Not nearly the same. Just look at the snap counts for TE’s in 2017. I can’t find the exact percentage of 12 in 2017 but they ran 11 personnel 67% of the time. 2018 dropped to 56%, 2019 dropped to 42%.

8 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

Can’t blame Howie when they miss early and credit the player and coaches when he hits late.

Only thing we know for certain is Donahoe did not want Milton Williams lol. 

Different circumstances. No one would blame Howie either if the 7th round lottery ticket didn’t work out. Plus there were reports and even Paganetti said Stoutland was standing on the table for Mailata. 

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Not All.   I thought the Goedert pick was a pick made by an arrogant FO that thought they had all the answers.  And they didn’t stop there unfortunately.  

We differ a bit on that one.  I understand your point of view, but I think Lurie and Howie thought they were on the front end of a new trend in the NFL with 12 personnel.

They had good success with their (at the time) judicious use of 12 personnel and deep TE talent in 2017.  They lost Trey Burton in FA. 

So I think Lowie figured they'd roll with their new 12 personnel that defenses couldn't keep up with and get the most talented TE on the board with their top pick.

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Not nearly the same. Just look at the snap counts for TE’s in 2017. I can’t find the exact percentage of 12 in 2017 but they ran 11 personnel 67% of the time. 2018 dropped to 56%, 2019 dropped to 42%.

Because of the WR situation, more than design.

21 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Put me in the camp the credit for Mailata goes to 

1. Mailata 

2. Stoutland 

3. Peters

4. Ostman

5. Howie 

He’s a guy with elite size and athleticism, he just never played football. It’s not hard to scout and to take a risk in the 7th on a complete unknown who has all the intangibles and things you can’t teach. 
 

With that said, the 2018 draft is still good considering the lack of picks and the overall contributions from players. 

Yeah, obviously Mailata gets the most credit, followed by Stoutland. No one would dispute that, or shouldn’t. 

But Howie absolutely deserves credit for listening to his guys and moving up for him. 31 other teams didn’t do it. Hell, people in here were calling the Eagles arrogant for making the pick. It only looked like an obvious move to make in hindsight for a ton of people. 

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

It falls in line with the Maddox pick.  Just because he has been a "starter” doesn’t make it a good pick or him a good player. 

Yep...with the exception of a 2 game stretch his rookie year, Maddox has not been one incremental iota better than the revolving door of street FAs at CB that have been occasionally next to, behind, and ahead of him.

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Different circumstances. No one would blame Howie either if the 7th round lottery ticket didn’t work out. Plus there were reports and even Paganetti said Stoutland was standing on the table for Mailata. 

That’s not true. There were a lot of folks killing Howie in here for taking Mailata. 

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

Because of the WR situation, more than design.

See that's where it was design.  Drafting Goedert and getting by with spare parts at Z was the design.  

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Yep...with the exception of a 2 game stretch his rookie year, Maddox has not been one incremental iota better than the revolving door of street FAs at CB that have been occasionally next to, behind, and ahead of him.

Even if you consider Maddox a miss, it’s a good draft. 

48 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

What’s worse.  Being so soft that you get bent when someone disagrees with your Pollyanna, clueless outlook.  Or getting drunk and saying dumb things on the message board only to disappear out of embarrassment?  Because I don’t know.  

You finally said something accurate.  "I don’t know.”  Congrats.  That’s the first step. 

10 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

As bad as Howie has been with his picks and his meddling, I do think he takes into account what his coaching staff wants in terms of positions and player types. Doug wanted to run more two-TE, so he got a good TE in Goedert. Doug wanted more speed so he drafted Reagor. That doesn’t mean his choices were the correct ones…

You know who ran a faster 40 time than Reagor at the combine?

 

 

 

Jefferson.

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

That’s not true. There were a lot of folks killing Howie in here for taking Mailata. 

Maybe so, I don’t recall and it’s laughable if true. It’s a 7th round pick. Just speaking from my personal view of the pick. I was always in the mindset of "this will probably never work out, but it’s fun and worth the gamble.”

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

The real point is, that it’s a good draft because JM and Sweat were extended this week.  

Why were they extended?

I though Maddox had a solid week 1. Hopefully he finds his niche as the slot CB.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

See that's where it was design.  Drafting Goedert and getting by with spare parts at Z was the design.  

On paper, it seemed like getting out of Smith's contract and getting Wallace was an upgrade. It didn't work out. On top of that, Mack Hollins had the groin issue in 2018 and couldn't get on the field. When he returned in 2019, he was not the player he looked like as a rookie. We needed a TE2. It just turned out that the real mistake was dumping Smith and trying to get production there from Wallace, Hollins, and DJax. 

7 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Even if you consider Maddox a miss, it’s a good draft. 

If Mailata is a franchise LT and Sweat is a quality starting DE...and Goedert is a top 10 TE....it's a GREAT draft.  No.  Spectacular.

Of course, none of these players are any of these things yet.  They are all projected as these things based on their ability.  And, unfortunately, here we are 3 years after the draft (3 not-so-successful years) when all of these players have their rookie contracts about to expire...still arguing about it.  They didn't really get a ton of high cap leverage productivity from any of them during those cheap rookie deals.  

So that alone isn't great for any draft...to have to say you pushed through all the rookie deals without much productivity.  However, on the other end of those deals, it is a lot of talent we might have.

Unusual draft, to say the least.

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Maybe so, I don’t recall and it’s laughable if true. It’s a 7th round pick. Just speaking from my personal view of the pick. I was always in the mindset of "this will probably never work out, but it’s fun and worth the gamble.”

A lot of people in here really don’t get the draft. 

Just now, eagle45 said:

If Mailata is a franchise LT and Sweat is a quality starting DE...and Goedert is a top 10 TE....it's a GREAT draft.  No.  Spectacular.

Of course, none of these players are any of these things yet.  They are all projected as these things based on their ability.  And, unfortunately, here we are 3 years after the draft (3 not-so-successful years) when all of these players have their rookie contracts about to expire...still arguing about it.  They didn't really get a ton of high cap leverage productivity from any of them during those cheap rookie deals either.  

Goedert already is a top 10 TE. Check that one off. 

26 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

He drafted a #2 TE because he wanted to build the offense around 12 personnel...

Howie wanted to build the offense around 12?  Now we have Howie such a control freak that he is designing the offense.  I am not a fan of the accountant but that is a bridge too far.

7 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

The real point is, that it’s a good draft because JM and Sweat were extended this week.  

That’s the best you got.  I bet you got excited when you posted that.  You pushed yourself away from the keyboard and said "ha, that’ll show him”.  LOL.  

I’m not here to start arguments or go back and forth.  But enough is enough.  You "try” to "bully” people almost everyday around here.  It’s one thing to have that sort of "schtick” and most of us know you but you’ve been out of control lately.  Just chill out.