5 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

PFF.  Great sourcing there.  

At least it's a "source." What's your source?

 

Here's some more:

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/how-dallas-goedert-impacts-games-even-when-hes-not-catching-passes

https://www.si.com/nfl/eagles/news/dallas-goedert-will-start-at-te-even-if-zach-ertz-remains-on-roster

 

 

7 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

So you think Howie allowed Doug to dictate whatever offensive philosophy he wanted and just went out and got the players to fill the 12 personnel depth chart dictated by Doug?

Yes, I do.  I don’t think Howie told Sirianni that he was keeping Stoll so he had better play some 13 personnel.  Now, do I think Pederson told Howie to draft Goedert, a bit of a gamble considering the team and league he played for?  No.  Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if Pederson was surprised that in fleshing out the TE depth, Howie went that high for a TE to replace Celek.  But they clearly needed a TE that could in line block. They had just won the Super Bowl in part because Celek’s blocking assists hid the huge decrease from Peters to big V.  Someone said, why do we need Ward, we have Ertz.  Well there is a bit of truth that Ertz is like a slot receiver more than a true TE.  I believe after they got Goedert in and he did well in his first camp that Pederson installed some more 12 into the playbook.  But Howie or Lurie moving toward 12, nah, I doubt that. 

For full disclosure, I did like the 2018 draft.  My least favorite pick was probably Goedert.  Liked the prospect, hated the direction it signaled for the offense.

Loved Sweat and Mailata for their raw potential.  I actually said Sweat was my favorite defensive selection in years.

Liked Maddox a lot (oops).  

I hated signing Wallace...we should have known he was over the hill.  The injury just put him out of his misery earlier.  I really liked Hollins and Gibson (2017 guys).  Gibson had insane movement talent but got the yips.  Unlike Agholor, Gibson was a 5th round pick and had a more limited chance to fight through it.  A couple around here said that they could tell Gibson was a body catcher and saw it coming.  I like to think you can coach that away, but sometimes you can't and they were right.  

Hollins...I dunno what happened.  He looked so big, strong, fast, quick, and athletic.  Almost like a prototypical high volume #1.  After a seemingly minor and mysterious injury, he looked like JJAW.  I kind of hoped they had WR figured out with those two...that's another reason I was disappointed they signed Wallace.  As ignorant as they have been at WR, they must have known they didn't have much in Hollins/Gibson and needed to get someone else in there (hence extending Alshon and signing Wallace).

12 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Does Howie get any credit for the pick or no?

Fine I’ll move him above Ostman 

Just now, LeanMeanGM said:

Fine I’ll move him above Ostman 

That’s mighty big of you. Maybe Ostman told Howie to draft him too though. 

Just now, ManuManu said:

That’s mighty big of you. Maybe Ostman told Howie to draft him too though. 

Fwiw I never said he deserves no credit. Just the least. 

12 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Everyone? No. 

Frankly, I can’t remember if people still objected to the pick after the first few days.  So maybe "everyone” was an overstatement but a bunch did do their homework post draft. 

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Fwiw I never said he deserves no credit. Just the least. 

I don’t really disagree. But he’s the GM and he’s in charge of who we pick. It’s weird that people don’t give him any credit for it. 

Just now, BigEFly said:

Frankly, I can’t remember if people still objected to the pick after the first few days.  So maybe "everyone” was an overstatement but a bunch did do their homework post draft. 

Perhaps so. 

7 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Fwiw I never said he deserves no credit. Just the least. 

We agree on almost everything, but I'll give Howie credit on Mailata.  

I'm a believer of the captain of the ship bottom line.  I don't like blaming Howie screw ups on the likes of Joe Douglas or hamstrung coaches.  So I'm not going to dismiss good picks on his watch due to positional coaches.

Even if Stout was arguing for Mailata and Howie was arguing against him, he still made the decision to listen and take the guy.

Likewise, when your WRs suck and are injury prone, you have a probowl TE, and you draft a TE with your top pick...you know what you are doing and where you are headed with the offense.  The 12 personnel failure can't all go on Doug.

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I don’t really disagree. But he’s the GM and he’s in charge of who we pick. It’s weird that people don’t give him any credit for it. 

Perhaps so. 

If he was your traditional 7th round pick, I would give him more credit. I think that’s the biggest thing I’m hung up on. 

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Abahahahahahaha.  I knew you were going to bring that dope into the discussion.  He’s your favorite guy.  PFF is constantly misguided with their rankings.  They had Hargrave ranked higher as a pass rusher this past week then the guy who had 5 sacks.  
 

I don’t need a source to know that you don’t justify taking a TE in the 2nd round because of his blocking acumen.  Just as much as I don’t need to celebrate how an offense looked in a practice that no one saw.  

You keep missing the point. He can block AND catch --- not "just block."

Also, who cares who makes the videos? He's kind of "the guy" when it comes to that for Eagles clips. If there were more people doing that, I would post more clips from them. It's comical to watch you attack the posters you disagree with, the sources that don't support your claims, and actual video proof that something occurred. That's all I've seen you offer. If you think PFF is a crap source, you should try reading your posts. 

15 minutes ago, mattwill said:

I don't even remember any disbelief in here.  Disbelief in the 7th Round?  Anyone who understands the Draft knows that the 7th Round ... and the 6th Round ... are crap shoots.  The majority of the players taken in those two rounds are ones that you do not believe will sign with your team in  the UDFA period. Drafting them gives you exclusive rights to sign them.

Heck, Matt.  You have been around long enough to know some posters, me included, are invested all the way to the bottom rounds and through UDFA.  I suspect some of us thought any inexperienced rugby player would be available in UDFA.  So yeah, probably initial disbelief as the pick was made and then immediately researching the why over the next few days. 

10 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

We agree on almost everything, but I'll give Howie credit on Mailata.  

I'm a believer of the captain of the ship bottom line.  I don't like blaming Howie screw ups on the likes of Joe Douglas or hamstrung coaches.  So I'm not going to dismiss good picks on his watch due to positional coaches.

Even if Stout was arguing for Mailata and Howie was arguing against him, he still made the decision to listen and take the guy.

Likewise, when your WRs suck and are injury prone, you have a probowl TE, and you draft a TE with your top pick...you know what you are doing and where you are headed with the offense.  The 12 personnel failure can't all go on Doug.

I get it and I’m never going to tell anyone they are wrong about giving Howie credit unless they think he deserves the most credit for it. I just always have viewed Mailata as the $5 scratch off that says "win up to $100,000.00” that actually hits. Howie gets credit for not buying 5 of the $1 scratch offs. 

https://www.audacy.com/sports/nfl/espn-ranks-dallas-goedert-as-no-6-tight-end-in-the-nfl

Perhaps the more interesting and less inflammatory discussion here is the TE spectrum of receiving and blocking.

I don't think Goedert is or will ever be a truly great receiver.  He doesn't have the most natural hands, doesn't have Ertz-like precision in his routes, and is a good but not spectacular athlete.  He's already a good receiver, but he isn't going to be a Waller/Kittle/Kelce/prime Ertz type.  

He's already a much better blocker than Ertz ever has been...a better blocker than a lot of the smaller, faster, less physical rocked up WR/TE types.

The guys that are elite receivers and aggressive matchup-winning in-line blockers are franchise changing talents.  There are 1-2 of them in the NFL at any time.  Even Pitts, the highest drafted TE in history, will never block well enough to fit this category.  That's why I said he was only worth that draft status if he runs a pro day 4.3 (a combine 4.4) and you just make him a WR.

But it's a philosophical point of contention as to how valuable a Kelce is vs Ertz vs. Goedert vs. a blocker who is inactive in the passing game.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

Perhaps the more interesting and less inflammatory discussion here is the TE spectrum of receiving and blocking.

I don't think Goedert is or will ever be a truly great receiver.  He doesn't have the most natural hands, doesn't have Ertz-like precision in his routes, and is a good but not spectacular athlete.  He's already a good receiver, but he isn't going to be a Waller/Kittle/Kelce/prime Ertz type.  

He's already a much better blocker than Ertz ever has been...a better blocker than a lot of the smaller, faster, less physical rocked up WR/TE types.

The guys that are elite receivers and aggressive matchup-winning in-line blockers are franchise changing talents.  There are 1-2 of them in the NFL at any time.  Even Pitts, the highest drafted TE in history, will never block well enough to fit this category.  That's why I said he was only worth that draft status if he runs a pro day 4.3 (a combine 4.4) and you just make him a WR.

But it's a philosophical point of contention as to how valuable a Kelce is vs Ertz vs. Goedert vs. a blocker who is inactive in the passing game.

Fair points.  The only point I generally disagree with is with Goedert not having "good hands”.  I strongly believe he has excellent hands (demonstrated that repeatedly in college) and with more consistent QB play (should) demonstrate that on the NFL level as well. 

Howie also deserves credit for deciding to devote a 53-man roster spot to Mailata and sticking to it despite Ostman punking him repeatedly. 

8 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I get it and I’m never going to tell anyone they are wrong about giving Howie credit unless they think he deserves the most credit for it. I just always have viewed Mailata as the $5 scratch off that says "win up to $100,000.00” that actually hits. Howie gets credit for not buying 5 of the $1 scratch offs. 

A lot of folks don’t play the lottery because the odds are so long. It’s more like Howie bought the lotto ticket instead of a couple of 2 liters of Shasta. 

8 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Perhaps the more interesting and less inflammatory discussion here is the TE spectrum of receiving and blocking.

I don't think Goedert is or will ever be a truly great receiver.  He doesn't have the most natural hands, doesn't have Ertz-like precision in his routes, and is a good but not spectacular athlete.  He's already a good receiver, but he isn't going to be a Waller/Kittle/Kelce/prime Ertz type.  

He's already a much better blocker than Ertz ever has been...a better blocker than a lot of the smaller, faster, less physical rocked up WR/TE types.

The guys that are elite receivers and aggressive matchup-winning in-line blockers are franchise changing talents.  There are 1-2 of them in the NFL at any time.  Even Pitts, the highest drafted TE in history, will never block well enough to fit this category.  That's why I said he was only worth that draft status if he runs a pro day 4.3 (a combine 4.4) and you just make him a WR.

But it's a philosophical point of contention as to how valuable a Kelce is vs Ertz vs. Goedert vs. a blocker who is inactive in the passing game.

The thing about Goedert is that he was used more as a receiver than blocker in college. He's got terrific hands and I don't think we've seen the best of Goedert as a receiver yet in the NFL. 

Being behind Ertz as a rookie, Goedert was able to really develop as a blocker. I believe he's demonstrated that he's committed to getting better in every area, everyday. 

 Not trying to take away anything from the Eagles, because what they did is what you’re supposed to do against bad teams. Just thought this was interesting.

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

 Not trying to take away anything from the Eagles, because what they did is what you’re supposed to do against bad teams. Just thought this was interesting.

When you think about it, there's no other conclusion when you are dominated by your opponent on both sides of the ball. 

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

When you think about it, there's no other conclusion when you are dominated by your opponent on both sides of the ball. 

It’s just one game but Arthur Smith was really bad too. It reminded me of when McAdoo went with the Giants instead of the Eagles. Potentially, this happened again as Smith was supposedly the top choice but Eagles were just late to the party. 

On 9/17/2021 at 7:18 PM, EaglePhan1986 said:

Polamalu has a defensive MVP to his name. That says something. Polamalu was not overrated. He was a great player as was Dawk. 

You should take a look at his stats over the years.  He was 'great' for 2-3 years.

On 9/17/2021 at 11:01 PM, Alphagrand said:

Seems like awarding a guy defensive player of the year when he shouldn’t have been awarded is the very definition of overrated.  
 

Polamalu had 49 solo tackles in 2010 when he got DPOY.  There were two other strong safeties that season with 96 each.  Polamalu had 7 INT for 101 yards that year — Ed Reed had 8 for 183 yards, despite only playing in ten games.

So, in Polumalu’s best season, he made 1/2 as many tackles as other league leading safeties, and almost had as many INT as Ed Reed, who played just over half the games.

If there was a stat for how many plays being way out of position, I grant you Polamalu would have been the league leader — but that’s not a good category 

I wonder what Bob Sanders thinks of this convo...if he hung on for 4 extra injury plagued seasons he could have been a HOF'r too.  He's actually the forgotten dude of that era.  Bob Sanders was an absolute animal till his body and frame couldn't take the abuse of his play style.

9 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

It’s just one game but Arthur Smith was really bad too. It reminded me of when McAdoo went with the Giants instead of the Eagles. Potentially, this happened again as Smith was supposedly the top choice but Eagles were just late to the party. 

I think our team's first game together benefitted from building the plan around the players' strengths. A team that is introducing a new system to the players might need a few weeks before people start buying in. It seemed like the Packers started off rocky with LaFleur in 2019, but things gradually improved week after week ... up until the point where they pissed off Rodgers.