4 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I didn't say it was PI I said it was illegal contact.

Two separate and distinctively different penalties.

If your argument is contact while the ball is in the air, it can't be illegal contact.  It's pass interference, or it's not.

6 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I didn't say it was PI I said it was illegal contact.

Two separate and distinctively different penalties.

Plus, both 1 and 5 in the first criteria clearly applied to the DB on the play 

9 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Plus, both 1 and 5 in the first criteria clearly applied to the DB on the play 

That's where the 'he was looking back' comes in... which is covered by the 'not playing the ball' caveat.

13 minutes ago, RLC said:

Good question. 

Hurts has shown to be better than Minshew so far. Tannehill went for a 4. Hurts is around the same level as Miami Tannehill (not Titans Tannehill), so a 4? 

Okay I'll bite.

In what way has he shown he's better than Minshew?

11 minutes ago, TEW said:

I think he'd be worth more to us as a backup than whatever we could get for him. Basically, I think maybe we get a 4th or 5th.

I agree. Been saying since the offseason if I were the Ravens I’d offer a 3rd for Hurts. It’s only a matter of time before Jackson gets hurt in that offense and Hurts is as close to a perfect backup as they’ll find. 

19 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

They are 27th in passing yards 

Teamrankings.com says they’re currently 22nd.

19 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Okay I'll bite.

In what way has he shown he's better than Minshew?

Once you include the rushing stats, his value is clearly higher. 
If you don't value QB rushing, then sure Minshew will look better.

4 minutes ago, SB52 said:

Teamrankings.com says they’re currently 22nd.

NFL.com has them 27th.

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/

34 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Stopping by to say I'd be extremely pissed if we traded for Russell Wilson.

Is that on the menu?

30 minutes ago, TEW said:

I think he'd be worth more to us as a backup than whatever we could get for him. Basically, I think maybe we get a 4th or 5th.

There's some stigma about former starters transitioning to backups with the same team.  I'm sure there are examples out there, but it just feels like they typically get moved.

But I agree that Hurts would be worth more to us as a backup.  Without trying to incite those of us who want him as our long-term starter, Hurts is a prototypical backup.  Your starter gets out, game plan falls apart...backup comes in and is able to improvise with his legs, keep the defense off balance.  Hurts clearly has proven to have the attitude and mentality that the moment isn't too big for him and that he can step in cold and step up.

Doesn't matter if your starter is Lamar Jackson-style or Tom Brady, that's who you want coming off the bench.  

Interestingly, I think that fits Minshew too.

1 minute ago, Diehardfan said:

Is that on the menu?

No, I just put that out there, been saying that ever since the rumors of Russ potentially being traded started. I still think it's a possibility being as the FO has been infatuated with Russ ever since that draft. 

15 minutes ago, Don Corleone said:

NFL.com has them 27th.

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/

That’s strange. 

I wonder if teamrankings takes into account sack yardage?

EDIT: Jalen Hurts has 454 passing yards, according to Rotoworld (now it’s called "something” Edge.)

This is crazy. According to the "passing yards” stats I’ve followed my whole life NFL.com is wrong (as lost sack yards count against team passing yards in the NFL. In college they count against rush yards).

By the way, 27th isn’t bottom 5. It’s close enough, though.

7 minutes ago, RLC said:

Once you include the rushing stats, his value is clearly higher. 
If you don't value QB rushing, then sure Minshew will look better.

This is my bias and my philosophy on the position, but I don't want any qb running my offense who needs to have his rushing yards bundled with his passing yards to justify his impact as a QB.  I prefer to evaluate my passers based on how they pass.

13 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

This is my bias and my philosophy on the position, but I don't want any qb running my offense who needs to have his rushing yards bundled with his passing yards to justify his impact as a QB.  I prefer to evaluate my passers based on how they pass.

That's pretty much the point I tried to make way back this morning.  If you take away Hurts rushing ability, what does he bring to the table as a quarterback?

9 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Where was it suggested that 'touch passes' don't have a place?  Of course a touch pass is going to have its place.  However, the inability to throw a rope requires different skills, including anticipation and quicker reads.  Foles was good at that (in a certain context).  Foles ran the RPOs very well, because when he was permitted to just read that one defender, he could make that quick decision and get the ball where it needed to be quickly.  

 

The whole point of this is that when the arm strength isn't there to make up for the late reads and late release, the ball arrives late.  By having faster reads, you can compensate.  When the reads are slow, then the throw arrives late and you have no way to compensate.  That's the whole point of the discussion.  If he had a stronger arm, he could have had the same moment of the release, and put the ball further out than he did, and Smith could be open.  But, he doesn't have that, which means he has to learn how to get the ball out quicker, so that he can release it sooner and have the ball arrive on time.  The jury is out on whether or not he can do that.  But, I think the jury has come back with the decision that the arm strength isn't there to allow him to be slow in making reads and still getting the ball where it needs to be.   It will be late and/or under thrown... and defenders will make plays on the ball that they shouldn't be able to make if the ball is released sooner, or put out further.

 

But, it still isn't about the distance traveled by the throw.  He has enough arm strength to get the ball to every part of the field that he would need to get it to... on time and on target, but since the trajectory is going to include more arc, he has less time to make the read, so he needs to compensate for it.  We'll see in the next 15 games if he can.   But, he likely won't be able to do that if he's on the move either.  In those cases, he'll need to find closer targets to outlet the ball, rather than just having the receivers turn and go deep on a scramble drill... instead, they will need to come back to their QB.  That can also work, but it needs to be a part of the design.

So we agree on quicker reading.  I think that is more of an issue than arm strength. I agree that arc becomes more of a concern because of the speed with which the ball gets there. 

34 minutes ago, SB52 said:

Teamrankings.com says they’re currently 22nd.

I don’t know what metric they are going by but they have well more than 219 yards.

1 hour ago, RLC said:

Good question. 

Hurts has shown to be better than Minshew so far. Tannehill went for a 4. Hurts is around the same level as Miami Tannehill (not Titans Tannehill), so a 4? 

You mean so far this season or better running the ball?  I don't think at this point Hurts is a better QB than Minshew.  I mean just throwing the ball.  

9 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

So we agree on quicker reading.  I think that is more of an issue than arm strength. I agree that arc becomes more of a concern because of the speed with which the ball gets there. 

I think it is exacerbated by not having the arm strength to compensate for a late read, sobbn its all interconnected, as most things are.  But its about degrees, I suppose.

I probably missed someone posting this earlier. 

4 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I probably missed someone posting this earlier. 

So Reagor will stick around for awhile for his blocking. Him and JJAW! What a combo 

6 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Hey bud.  How’s the pop? 

He's good man, celebrated his 86th birthday earlier this month. Thank you for asking. How have things been with you?

5 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

So Reagor will stick around for awhile for his blocking. Him and JJAW! What a combo 

Might have the best blocking WRs in the league. 

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Good.  Wife and I are good.  Daughter is on lock down at college because she got Covid.  But she feels better and is happy to be out of quarantine Friday.   All in all, can’t complain.  

That's good, sucks she got covid, but at least she's doing better and will recover.

5 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Well that falls in line with our superior blocking #2 Tight End.  You know it’s because of him and the fact that we extended JM and Sweat that the 2018 draft class is a great one now.  Cool huh?  

I don’t look forward to when his average annual is 13-13.5 cause of the Jonnu and henry contracts.