1 minute ago, Nivraga said:

I doubt anyone thinks Tyrod is better now. But at the time of that trade Tyrod had a perceived higher ceiling. I'll maintain that the most valuable trait of Hurts is his work ethic and desire to be the absolute best version of himself. A lot people push this off as barely relevant - "everyone has work ethic" - no they don't. What makes HOFers in any sport is that above their talent (which they must have as a prerequisite) is there work ethic and desire. Hurts probably doesn't have HOF talent but he definitely has HOF work ethic. What ever his ceiling his - he will find it. The question any prospective trade partner should have is - has he reached his ceiling or is there more? - how much?

I still don’t really get this narrative.  What tangible evidence is there that Hurts has "HOF work ethic”?  He definitely has HOF work ethic??  Because of workout videos?

Not trying to make this an anti-Hurts theme, but I’ve seen this put out there a lot, and haven’t seen any objective basis that he works as hard or harder than the average NFL QB

4 minutes ago, Swoop said:

I don't think you do. Having to use rushing yards as well, because his passing has been sub-par thus far, to make an argument that he's "shown more" than a current third string QB isn't exactly a strong argument.

If you want to talk about pure passing - sure. But fairly evaluating a QB means evaluating everything he brings to the table - you can't just ignore his rushing because it's inconvenient for you or that it doesn't fit your narrative. 

Just now, Alphagrand said:

I still don’t really get this narrative.  What tangible evidence is there that Hurts has "HOF work ethic”?  He definitely has HOF work ethic??  Because of workout videos?

Not trying to make this an anti-Hurts theme, but I’ve seen this put out there a lot, and haven’t seen any objective basis that he works as hard or harder than the average NFL QB

Hurts has worked to improve as a passer since he arrived at Alabama and the results are there - every coach and player that has worked with Hurts has remarked about how much work he puts in. The same was said about Jordan - I have no proof other than the testimony of those that worked with him. Kobe - same. Rice - same. Brady - same. Conversely - Iverson had great talent but poor work ethic - (we're talking about practice). Imagine what Iverson could have been with effort (off the court) to match his talent. Hurts probably doesn't have that talent but I know he is putting in the work because EVERYONE says so.

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

There was no contact before the ball was released.  Reagor gave up that ground on his own.

It's really the case of Reagor not running the route correctly.  He had a clean release, fought through some contact and made the catch but just did not leave himself space.  

14 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I still don’t really get this narrative.  What tangible evidence is there that Hurts has "HOF work ethic”?  He definitely has HOF work ethic??  Because of workout videos?

Not trying to make this an anti-Hurts theme, but I’ve seen this put out there a lot, and haven’t seen any objective basis that he works as hard or harder than the average NFL QB

I don't know that we can know the bell curve of how much work every QB does.  I do think all of the reports are that Hurts works hard to improve himself.  I think the question of how hard can only be answered in whether his play improves.  

41 minutes ago, Swoop said:

I don't think you do. Having to use rushing yards as well, because his passing has been sub-par thus far, to make an argument that he's "shown more" than a current third string QB isn't exactly a strong argument.

I think we've seen both sides of the spectrum so far.  Hurts was uber-efficient and effective against one of the worst 5 teams in the NFL in Week 1, and he was inefficient and ineffective against one of the best 5 teams in Week 2.  

This is the main reason I'm content to see what he offers for 17 games this season.  I believe if he's benched for performance during the season, then the decision has been made (in effect) on the future -- that's why I said yesterday I believe any decision in that direction would have to be a Nick/Howie decision rather than just head coach.

My concerns with the tape I've seen from the 49ers game is Hurts was late to make decisions, under-threw his targets (because of this delay) and didn't take what the defense was giving.  In the pregame report I saw it reported the Eagles felt "there would be opportunities downfield" -- I think both Nick and Hurts got too attached to that strategy at times.

28 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I don't know that we can know the bell curve of how much work every QB does.  I do think all of the reports are that Hurts works hard to improve himself.  I think the question of how hard can only be answered in whether his play improves.  

Most QB's are not putting out daily videos on social media showing how hard they work, so they obviously do not work as hard as Jalen Hurts.

I’m choosing violence again. 

By all accounts Hurts has an exemplary work ethic. I don’t care to get into whether it’s HoF or whatever, but it’s been pretty well documented, and not just by himself on social media. 

45 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

If you want to talk about pure passing - sure. But fairly evaluating a QB means evaluating everything he brings to the table - you can't just ignore his rushing because it's inconvenient for you or that it doesn't fit your narrative. 

You're not getting it, either. 

I'm not ignoring his running. I'm saying that if you need to compile all of his stats as the only way for him to appear better than a third string QB, that's not a convincing argument.

3 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

There was no contact before the ball was released.  Reagor gave up that ground on his own.

Agree to disagree 

2 minutes ago, Swoop said:

You're not getting it, either. 

I'm not ignoring his running. I'm saying that if you need to compile all of his stats as the only way for him to appear better than a third string QB, that's not a convincing argument.

So using the whole picture to explain why he’s better isn’t a convincing argument? That makes no sense. 

Im not convinced he’s all that much better than Minshew, but it’s ridiculous to leave out a significant part of his game from the evaluation. 

5 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Agree to disagree 

I have watched that play a bunch, if Reagor had have been more assertive getting to the ball and making the contact look worse, it would have been called.  He almost willingly went out of bounds, took the lazy route.

Get used to Hurts ppl. He’s not great, but there’s going to be no one better anytime soon. Similar situation as McNabb. And no, he’s not as good as McNabb was but I do think his personality/poise is a better fit. 

At what point does Minshew overtake Joe Flacco on the depth chart?  If Hurts were to get injured and miss games, is there really much purpose in Flacco as the starter?  I think Minshew is a journeyman and Flacco basically washed -- so neither option is appealing, but I can't see the upside in Flacco playing ahead of Minshew

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

I have watched that play a bunch, if Reagor had have been more assertive getting to the ball and making the contact look worse, it would have been called.  He almost willingly went out of bounds, took the lazy route.

Yup he definitely could have sold the contact better.

1 hour ago, Nivraga said:

I doubt anyone thinks Tyrod is better now. But at the time of that trade Tyrod had a perceived higher ceiling. I'll maintain that the most valuable trait of Hurts is his work ethic and desire to be the absolute best version of himself.

Very fair.

It's important to note that the perception of players is more important than the production of players when it comes to both the draft and trades. 

2 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I think Minshew is a journeyman

He is in his 3rd season, and put up some pretty darn good numbers on an atrocious Jacksonville team.  As I posted after the trade, this is what Jalen Hurts would have to do this season to match Minshew's numbers after the 20 starts, and that is giving Hurts 1 extra start.

4,469 yards, 31 TD's vs 7 Int's and a 66.25 completion percentage.

10 minutes ago, downundermike said:

He is in his 3rd season, and put up some pretty darn good numbers on an atrocious Jacksonville team.  As I posted after the trade, this is what Jalen Hurts would have to do this season to match Minshew's numbers after the 20 starts, and that is giving Hurts 1 extra start.

4,469 yards, 31 TD's vs 7 Int's and a 66.25 completion percentage.

I seem to recall some dramatic first half and second half splits for Minshew. Seems like he put up a lot of garbage time stats. 

If I remember correctly. 

16 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

Get used to Hurts ppl. He’s not great, but there’s going to be no one better anytime soon. Similar situation as McNabb. And no, he’s not as good as McNabb was but I do think his personality/poise is a better fit. 

PFF has him as the number 2 ranked passer after week 2 behind Tom Brady.

I'm not quite sure what kind of metrics they used to come to that conclusion but I think maybe they need to go back to the drawing board.

 

I saw a tweet from a different teams beat writer that said you can only call up a specific PS player twice during the season. That’s probably why we haven’t done so yet. 

Also, there’s no limit in protecting PS players. 

Was an Eagle for a few weeks.

 

Quote

 

On March 9, 2018, the Carolina Panthers agreed to trade Worley to the Philadelphia Eagles in exchange for wide receiver Torrey Smith.^[11] The deal became official on March 14, 2018.^[12]

On April 15, 2018, the Philadelphia Police Department arrested Worley for driving under the influence, disorderly conduct, and violation of the uniform firearms act. Worley was found by police passed out in his vehicle while blocking a highway that was near a team facility. It was reported the arrest was at 6AM and police were required to use a taser on Worley after he became combative.^[13] On April 16, 2018, the Philadelphia Eagles officially released Worley due to his arrest.^[14][15]

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I seem to recall some dramatic first half and second half splits for Minshew. Seems like he put up a lot of garbage time stats. 

If I remember correctly. 

That is correct, but you have to then look at the games.  2019 if you look at his highest passing yard games.

374 - 34-27 loss, 1 score game in the 4th quarter

309 - 26-3 loss

295 - win

279 - win

275 - 40-26 loss to Chiefs.  

255 - win

213 - win

213 - loss

204 - win

So in his 200 yard games, he had a 5-4 record.

2020 he went 1-8, but his two 300 yard games were 1 score margins in the 4th quarter.

You have to look at the context of the games when using the splits.  There is no disparity in yards in blow outs vs competitive games.

6 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I saw a tweet from a different teams beat writer that said you can only call up a specific PS player twice during the season. That’s probably why we haven’t done so yet. 

Also, there’s no limit in protecting PS players. 

Yes and no.  Sure, you can protect the same player every week, but you can only protect 4 each week.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/9/22/22687282/nfl-rookie-quarterback-ready-justin-fields-bears-trey-lance-49ers

Interesting article and has some nuggets from Douggie P:

Hasselbeck thinks that experience—and Green Bay’s investment in the QB room—extended his career. "There’s examples of guys who struggle early because they get thrown out there too early,” Hasselbeck says. "Eventually, if [you’re] able to weather the storm—mentally, physically, emotionally—and get people to believe in you, then you can pull around or come out of it. But for me, I was not ready my first year. I was someone who needed probably four years. They gave me three years to get ready to be a starter, and I probably needed another year. But I think I see that a lot. Especially people who just get down on themselves and can’t pull out of it.”

Mahomes, despite his early-career brilliance, has echoed a similar sentiment. He has said that he couldn’t read defenses until midway through 2019—his second season as a starter and third in the league—and that he didn’t feel truly comfortable until 2020. Pederson also believes it takes three years for a quarterback to understand his offense and opposing defenses. But players rarely get the luxury of that much time to sit and marinate. "That’s the thing about it in today’s game,” Pederson says. "You don’t have three years. You’ve got to coach them up to play right now.”