Just now, Gannan said:

The answer to your question is, they're poor and probably many are not the portrait of personal responsibility. If parents are poor and irresponsible, children should not suffer as a result. If you want to make me Emperor after Trump dies and I could change the entire system, I would favor food banks over the EBT system, but barring that, I don't see how such a thing gets through congress. 

The way to stop people from making poor decisions isn't to reward them for doing so. It's to make them feel the consequences of those poor decisions. We keep incentivizing the least capable among us to reproduce at the fastest rate, and then we wonder why society overall is getting dumber. Idiocracy wasn't a comedy movie, it was a prophecy. 

3 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said:

And again I'll ask:

a) why don't the kids have any food at home?

b) if parents can't afford it, there's already the SNAP program and there's already programs in place for reduced or free lunches

c) why is it not always an option?

You're trying to solve a problem before you even get to the "why" of the problem.  

There are gaps in the SNAP and free/reduced lunch programs. Food insecurity. Look it up: https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/food-insecurity

Quote

Facts about poverty and hunger in America

• According to the Census, in 2021, nearly 38 million people lived in poverty.
• Food insecurity and hunger are economic issues. The most common cause of food insecurity is a lower income.
• Making ends meet with a lower income is more difficult if you are unemployed or employed in low-wage work, experience a financial emergency, have limited savings, and rent rather than own your home.
• Communities of color, especially Black communities, experience hunger, poverty, and unemployment at much higher rates than white people. This is because of long-standing racial injustice that leads to barriers in education, employment, housing, and more.
• People with a disability and chronic conditions are also more likely to experience hunger and lower incomes. Living with a disability or chronic condition may lead to higher medical costs, prevent people from working regularly, or make grocery shopping more difficult. And people living with disabilities face discrimination in employment.

 

4 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

The way to stop people from making poor decisions isn't to reward them for doing so. It's to make them feel the consequences of those poor decisions. We keep incentivizing the least capable among us to reproduce at the fastest rate, and then we wonder why society overall is getting dumber. Idiocracy wasn't a comedy movie, it was a prophecy. 

Feeding students school lunch isn't a reward for being poor. It's the right thing to do.

Idiocracy is right.

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

The way to stop people from making poor decisions isn't to reward them for doing so. It's to make them feel the consequences of those poor decisions. We keep incentivizing the least capable among us to reproduce at the fastest rate, and then we wonder why society overall is getting dumber. Idiocracy wasn't a comedy movie, it was a prophecy. 

Maybe we are having 2 different discussions. What is possible versus how it should be. Telling people they're irresponsible louts and we are taking all of your benefits away generally isn't a winning formula to getting elected. Just ask Mitt Romney. Telling people that poor people will change their bad behavior once their children suffer for a while probably isn't going to be a winning message either. Like I said, the MAGA morons might like it, but I don't see it really catching on. There's tons of waste to go after that's far more palatable for the average voter before trying to tackle this. Politicians don't like going after wasteful spending period unless its something of a political football. Maybe no food for trans kids might work. 

1 minute ago, toolg said:

Feeding students school lunch isn't a reward for being poor. It's the right thing to do.

Idiocracy is right.

As I said, go ahead and feed the kids in school. But end SNAP, Welfare and Medicaid (for adults). Deal?

Just now, Gannan said:

Maybe we are having 2 different discussions. What is possible versus how it should be. Telling people they're irresponsible louts and we are taking all of your benefits away generally isn't a winning formula to getting elected. Just ask Mitt Romney. Telling people that poor people will change their bad behavior once their children suffer for a while probably isn't going to be a winning message either. Like I said, the MAGA morons might like it, but I don't see it really catching on. There's tons of waste to go after that's far more palatable for the average voter before trying to tackle this. Politicians don't like going after wasteful spending period unless its something of a political football. Maybe no food for trans kids might work. 

See post above -- feed kids, not the adults. And yeah, of course none of this will happen. People will keep voting for the people that promise to give them the most free stuff so they don't have to confront the failure that is their existence. We passed the Rubicon on that in the late 1960s. But we can at least try and avoid doing even more of it.

I am OK with government programs for children, but not for their irresponsible parents. 

Even Trump, the moron that he is, has this figured out. He's running on a platform of no social security or medicare cuts. People love their free ish. They just don't like seeing people that they don't like getting free ish. 

 

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

As I said, go ahead and feed the kids in school. But end SNAP, Welfare and Medicaid (for adults). Deal?

I am under no authority to make this deal... But now you want to deny health services because kids are being fed in school? Makes no sense. 

Just now, Gannan said:

Even Trump, the moron that he is, has this figured out. He's running on a platform of no social security or medicare cuts. People love their free ish. They just don't like seeing people that they don't like getting free ish. 

 

Welcome to another reason why I don't have children. This country is irretrievably screwed as we have no one willing to stop the vote buying insanity. The party that is supposed to be fiscally conservative is just as profligate as the liberals.  

1 minute ago, toolg said:

I am under no authority to make this deal... But now you want to deny health services because kids are being fed in school? Makes no sense. 

I want to end Medicaid because it is terrible policy. People have no right to health insurance. I'd end: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid (for adults), SNAP, Welfare, and Obamacare. I'd also cut military spending and taxes. My platform would be called "you are responsible for your own damn life."

I'd get like 4 votes.

Just now, vikas83 said:

Welcome to another reason why I don't have children. This country is irretrievably screwed as we have no one willing to stop the vote buying insanity. The party that is supposed to be fiscally conservative is just as profligate as the liberals.  

We could probably create a good separate thread about this. I've heard arguments about how deficit spending doesn't matter, and the world economy is based on major countries buying U.S debt so none of it ever matters. Someone could probably write a good book about what would happen if we went to war with China or if the cold war escalated to the point where China stopped buying our debt and forced us to rethink our spending. 

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

I want to end Medicaid because it is terrible policy. People have no right to health insurance. I'd end: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid (for adults), SNAP, Welfare, and Obamacare. I'd also cut military spending and taxes. My platform would be called "you are responsible for your own damn life."

I'd get like 4 votes.

That was Ron Paul. He was surprised anyone ever voted for him. 

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

I want to end Medicaid because it is terrible policy. People have no right to health insurance. I'd end: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid (for adults), SNAP, Welfare, and Obamacare. I'd also cut military spending and taxes. My platform would be called "you are responsible for your own damn life."

I'd get like 4 votes.

If you put a picture of Ron Swanson on a poster saying the slogan, you'd get at least a thousand votes on that alone. 

Just now, Gannan said:

We could probably create a good separate thread about this. I've heard arguments about how deficit spending doesn't matter, and the world economy is based on major countries buying U.S debt so none of it ever matters. Someone could probably write a good book about what would happen if we went to war with China or if the cold war escalated to the point where China stopped buying our debt and forced us to rethink our spending. 

Deficit spending is another topic all together, and that argument isn't totally without merit. Basically, since the Bretton Woods conference, the entire global financial system is based on the US Dollar. Almost all transactions settle in dollars, and most importantly, US government securities are considered riskless. The reason that matters is simple -- when looking at banks, the capitalization ratio is generally based on risk weighted assets. Take all the assets of the bank and then apply discounts to them, subtract the liabilities, and that gives you their risk weighted equity (basically their buffer). US government debt has a zero discount, so $1 million in treasuries is $1 million in risk weighted assets. So banks and insurance companies have an almost non-stop demand for US Treasuries since they pay a yield and have zero risk weight. That's why people say deficits don't matter -- because there is always an almost unending bid for our debt.

The counter to that is -- it works until it doesn't. It's why playing games with the debt ceiling, or the orange imbecile saying he will default, is so dangerous. If you introduce risk to the US Dollar, the whole system implodes immediately. 

 

  

3 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

 

  

And that is also why you fail at life

If they're gonna give free lunches away to kids, it better not be free cakes, cookies, soda, and that type of ish. Health insurance premiums are high enough already as it is, let's not raise an entire generation of diabetic wheezing children that look like bowling balls with legs.

Just now, we_gotta_believe said:

If they're gonna give free lunches away to kids, it better not be free cakes, cookies, soda, and that type of ish. Health insurance premiums are high enough already as it is, let's not raise an entire generation of diabetic wheezing children that look like bowling balls with legs.

Well, congress declared pizza a vegetable. I remember when Michelle Obama tried to argue that kids should get healthy food in schools, but I was told if we did that, we'd get the communism. 

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

If they're gonna give free lunches away to kids, it better not be free cakes, cookies, soda, and that type of ish. Health insurance premiums are high enough already as it is, let's not raise an entire generation of diabetic wheezing children that look like bowling balls with legs.

They can eat sloppy joe's like we did

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

They can eat sloppy joe's like we did

Never really liked them all that much, even as a kid. My friends were crazy for them but I couldn't understand the appeal. Not because they were too messy or anything, just didn't really like the sauce. Would much rather have had a normal burger.

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Never really liked them all that much, even as a kid. My friends were crazy for them but I couldn't understand the appeal. Not because they were too messy or anything, just didn't really like the sauce. Would much rather have had a normal burger.

3 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Once the economy begins to recover, all they're left with is insignificant culture war garbage that you can't win an election on

to be fair, the economy was pretty good in 2016. 

don't sleep on the power of culture war BS. 

2 hours ago, vikas83 said:

That's why people say deficits don't matter -- because there is always an almost unending bid for our debt.

My quibble with that is that the #1 holder of securities is the Fed. 

Demand even for US Securities has a limit. When we blow past that limit but still need money, the Fed buys them with a money supply it controls.

Under prudent leadership this can work and balance reasonably well for We the People. Under less prudent leadership....

2 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Never really liked them all that much, even as a kid. My friends were crazy for them but I couldn't understand the appeal. Not because they were too messy or anything, just didn't really like the sauce. Would much rather have had a normal burger.

 

1 hour ago, Phillyterp85 said:

meh. sloppy joes are BBQ tacos on a Kaiser roll. 

not the worst thing. but worse than a lot of things. 

7 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

to be fair, the economy was pretty good in 2016. 

don't sleep on the power of culture war BS. 

He only won because he ran against one of the worst presidential candidates in decades not named Trump. If Biden ran against him in 2016, Trump would've lost and F'ed back off to Mar A Lago never to be heard from again.