16 minutes ago, TEW said:

The Fed currently holds a little over $6T of our $28T in debt. So figure by the time the infrastructure deal is incorporated it will be about 25% of our total debt.

I would argue the debt trap already hit and we are in it. We can’t stop the increases in spending, let alone cut the deficit, without going into a deflationary spiral. We can’t raise rates. We basically can’t do anything but keep borrowing and printing.

The last chance to "take our medicine” was the financial crisis of 2008. But even that would have been a cataclysmic event. It would have been completely unpalatable to ordinary voters. We don’t have the national fortitude and will to grin and bear it through another Great Depression. 

hate to point out the obvious, but we could raise taxes AND cut spending.

rather than .. increasing spending, and cutting taxes.

13 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

hate to point out the obvious, but we could raise taxes AND cut spending.

rather than .. increasing spending, and cutting taxes.

Cut spending means cutting SS and medicare. Not just smaller increases but actually cutting entitlements as the boomers retire…

18 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

hate to point out the obvious, but we could raise taxes AND cut spending.

rather than .. increasing spending, and cutting taxes.

Actually you can’t. That’s the problem.

Or at least you can’t in terms of it being a " clean solution” with politically acceptable levels of pain and a strong exit position.

Both of those actions decrease aggregate demand, which would cause GDP to tank. Which means any significant cut in spending or raise in taxes or some combination of the two in an attempt to balance the budget would cause another crisis and actually decrease tax revenue.

There is literally no way, mathematically, to balance the budget. We’ve painted ourselves into a corner. We are totally F’d and barely anyone has figured this out yet.

10 hours ago, ToastJenkins said:

Cut spending means cutting SS and medicare. Not just smaller increases but actually cutting entitlements as the boomers retire…

Ok. I've long supported raising the SS age, and would like to see it tied to whatever age that life expectancy hits say 15 years (that would be about 68 right now I believe). I also have no issue making it means tested. 

I know less about Medicare.

10 hours ago, TEW said:

Actually you can’t. That’s the problem.

Or at least you can’t in terms of it being a " clean solution” with politically acceptable levels of pain and a strong exit position.

Both of those actions decrease aggregate demand, which would cause GDP to tank. Which means any significant cut in spending or raise in taxes or some combination of the two in an attempt to balance the budget would cause another crisis and actually decrease tax revenue.

There is literally no way, mathematically, to balance the budget. We’ve painted ourselves into a corner. We are totally F’d and barely anyone has figured this out yet.

I don't believe the budget needs to be fully balanced. It just cannot be so far underwater that normal demand for treasuries are exhausted. 

11 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Pretty sure he's referring to your pimp

Oh. 

1 minute ago, Boogyman said:

Oh. 

He thinks himself clever despite his mind being stunted in middle school.

11 hours ago, ToastJenkins said:

That you would be lazy and unemployed

Naahhh a person doesn't make it as far as I have in life being lazy.

33 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Ok. I've long supported raising the SS age, and would like to see it tied to whatever age that life expectancy hits say 15 years (that would be about 68 right now I believe). I also have no issue making it means tested. 

I know less about Medicare.

Medicare makes the SS problems look like childs play…

33 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I don't believe the budget needs to be fully balanced. It just cannot be so far underwater that normal demand for treasuries are exhausted. 

We already passed that. Ergo the feds print/buy scheme. Yet again the govt doing stuff that is illegal for any normal business or person. 

14 hours ago, lynched1 said:

😂

It's called the internet and a mailbox you backwards thinking drunk.

16 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

uh, yeah, one absolutely did better than the other. 

but again, if it had to do with one particular nation's policy on COVID, you would not see supply chain issues being a global issue.

they are.

it has everything to do with the pandemic interrupting supply chains everywhere.

what we have in the US is a healthy and robust economy, shrinking unemployment, a hot job market where workers have leverage to demand higher wages. yeah, the supply chain issues are causing price inflation as demand is outstripping supply, but that's really the only thing you haters can hang your hat on.

maybe you should stop cheering for economic collapse and get on Team Brandon.

Pfft. It's clearly all Biden's fault. Want proof? The united states is the only country in the world with supply chain issues! (or so Fox news tells me)

5 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I don't believe the budget needs to be fully balanced. It just cannot be so far underwater that normal demand for treasuries are exhausted. 

Too late.

Not only can’t we cut the deficit, we have to keep increasing it or face a deflationary spiral.

2 hours ago, Gannan said:

Pfft. It's clearly all Biden's fault. Want proof? The united states is the only country in the world with supply chain issues! (or so Fox news tells me)

Just like covid and the vaccines are a hoax by the gov'mint...which every other gov'mint including our enemies was also in on...

9 hours ago, Boogyman said:

It's called the internet and a mailbox you backwards thinking drunk.

Tuned up again today aren't you.

Don't bogart that joint you Fing addict.

 

7 hours ago, TEW said:

Too late.

Not only can’t we cut the deficit, we have to keep increasing it or face a deflationary spiral.

Game theory - would that be so bad? It would crush home equity and stocks but material costs would crash too. Cash wins out. F the boomers

3 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Game theory - would that be so bad? It would crush home equity and stocks but material costs would crash too. Cash wins out. F the boomers

It could be pretty bad if the entire financial system implodes and you can’t get materials because the commercial paper market gets annihilated, businesses can’t pay their employees, and so the entire economy screeches to a halt. That’s the risk.

It’s why I think the only option now really is to keep doing what we’re doing. We still have global reserve status. We’re still the tallest midget in the room. So we do have our advantages. We’re basically hoping for a dues ex machina moment to save us. Let’s hope the MMT people are right because they’ve forced us into their end game.

24 minutes ago, TEW said:

It could be pretty bad if the entire financial system implodes and you can’t get materials because the commercial paper market gets annihilated, businesses can’t pay their employees, and so the entire economy screeches to a halt. That’s the risk.

It’s why I think the only option now really is to keep doing what we’re doing. We still have global reserve status. We’re still the tallest midget in the room. So we do have our advantages. We’re basically hoping for a dues ex machina moment to save us. Let’s hope the MMT people are right because they’ve forced us into their end game.

All of human history would show they are wrong

18 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

All of human history would show they are wrong

I don’t disagree. But it’s really to the point where there is little other option. We get what we deserve.

47 minutes ago, TEW said:

I don’t disagree. But it’s really to the point where there is little other option. We get what we deserve.

Come on now. History tells us what the other option is. One word. Three letters…

I agree the the population at large lacks the spine to endure a deflationary period. What we need is a plague to wipe out the boomers.

21 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Come on now. History tells us what the other option is. One word. Three letters…

I agree the the population at large lacks the spine to endure a deflationary period. What we need is a plague to wipe out the boomers.

War

Yay, reduces the need for a plague also ehh? Let’s tell them they’re patriots, send them to die while killing others we don’t need due to technology and make money off the whole party. Right?

I’ll say it yet again… there are only 2 types of Republicans… Rich ones and Dumb ones. Better check your wallet.

11 minutes ago, MidMoFo said:

War

Yay, reduces the need for a plague also ehh? Let’s tell them they’re patriots, send them to die while killing others we don’t need due to technology and make money off the whole party. Right?

I’ll say it yet again… there are only 2 types of Republicans… Rich ones and Dumb ones. Better check your wallet.

Nah we need old people to die off not young ones.

war is not desirable. Its just where this economic foolishness leads eventually.

12 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Nah we need old people to die off not young ones.

war is not desirable. Its just where this economic foolishness leads eventually.

So what was your three letter word that history offers us as a solution?

You got it right. Its war. That where history tells us this reaches some tipping point. Will be interesting to see if its the modern proxy war paradigm or if we just square of with china or russia…

4 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

You got it right. Its war. That where history tells us this reaches some tipping point. Will be interesting to see if its the modern proxy war paradigm or if we just square of with china or russia…

Yeah, when the people in power have no respect for human life, and money and power are their true motivation… death, destruction, greed and population control will remain the result. Eventually, we should realize we are all stuck on the same round planet, and we can’t take our riches with us when we die. You know… that whole Christian belief thing republicans have cornered through propaganda. Won’t happen in our lifetimes, hopefully we don’t destroy the planet before then.