5 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I don't doubt they work hard, and their job is important.

But it's also a job that most any able bodied person can do. Which makes the candidate pool quite large and individual drivers fairly replaceable. 

Most able bodied? Let's talk about it a bit...... I  only drove for 5 years......( I stopped because I missed my kids ) but it is enough. 

Back a 48 foot trailer between 2 other 48s with roughly 4 feet clearance on each side.

Drive with 2 or 3 trailers attached...... you usually don't see 3 on the east coast........ and back those mo-fos up to a building. 

Know HOW to drive when your cargo is a tanker full of fluid.

Unload your full trailer yourself after driving for 6 or 7 hours because the stop has no one there to do it..... and you have to do it because you have other stops to make.

Be away from your family weeks at a time.

Let's go a bit old school..... shift 16 frigging gears.

Back to todays life...... dodge every a hole on their freaking phone that are weaving at 70 mph. ( I had a gal hit one of my trailer tires because she was trying to put makeup on.... thankfully no one was hurt since we were only doing about 25 mph )

Do some of your own repairs on a cold wet ground at the edge of an interstate. 

Drive into neighborhoods most sane folks would never dare to go.

Heat, cold, heavy rain, intense wind, heavy traffic,  long backups when ya gotta whiz. 

This is just an overview of what you could be dealing with on any given day.  

I highly doubt many COULD do it. Having left that life and moving on to IT and it's infrastructure.... I have spent nearly 20 years working around privileged desk jockeys that find the greatest hardship is that the Starbucks around the corner is out of their favorite junk coffee, or that their monitor and desk phone is not as new as their neighbor's..... all the while plotting to move up to a better cubicle by throwing their co workers under the bus.

What's replaceable is those types of people that work off a pre built custom designed program that is for the most part data entry. 

You may have trouble realizing it....... but driving this type of vehicle IS a skill...... this is why there is a CDL license..... I  recommend you go take the test and see how easy it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

And deregulation.

(I am not against deregulation. Truckers in 1980 were getting inflated rates of pay relative to the marketable skills they brought to the table. Suggesting a trucker is worth $120k in 2021 is absurd. I respect the job, but it's not one that should command a salary that high.)

IMO they deserve whatever they can get. If they're willing to get a different job because pay sucks then we end up without sheet to sell in stores we're F'ed. 

9 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I don't doubt they work hard, and their job is important.

But it's also a job that most any able bodied person can do. Which makes the candidate pool quite large and individual drivers fairly replaceable. 

 Most people can't parallel park a sedan. Hell a lot can't pull straight into a parking spot, let alone back in. 

Seems I triggered some of you.

I'm sorry, but with enough training and practice any able bodied person can learn to drive a truck and park it into tight spaces.

Upwards of 90% of those who take CDL classes pass. And 450k new CDL licenses are issued every year. 

Do you think 90% of those who would be doctors, lawyers, engineers, or even school teachers have the same graduation rates? And what percentage of those who do graduate with an engineering degree actually obtain a career in their field?

Virtually any poster on this board could become a truck driver if they wanted to. But few could become school teachers. Even fewer could become doctors or engineers. 

If you want to take offense to what I'm saying that's not my fault. My point is that in a capitalist system salary is set based on supply and demand of that job market. For sure demand for drivers is high. And the job has its challenges. So does every job, and a litany of challenges of the job does nothing to change that. 

Nor does it change the fact that truck driving is something most could do if they put their minds to it. Which is reflected in the compensation.

So back to the original statement: $120k is absurd compensation for a truck driver. I could see some niche situations where it may be warranted, but that would be quite an outlier not a representative salary. 

1 hour ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Seems I triggered some of you.

I'm sorry, but with enough training and practice any able bodied person can learn to drive a truck and park it into tight spaces.

Upwards of 90% of those who take CDL classes pass. And 450k new CDL licenses are issued every year. 

Do you think 90% of those who would be doctors, lawyers, engineers, or even school teachers have the same graduation rates? And what percentage of those who do graduate with an engineering degree actually obtain a career in their field?

Virtually any poster on this board could become a truck driver if they wanted to. But few could become school teachers. Even fewer could become doctors or engineers. 

If you want to take offense to what I'm saying that's not my fault. My point is that in a capitalist system salary is set based on supply and demand of that job market. For sure demand for drivers is high. And the job has its challenges. So does every job, and a litany of challenges of the job does nothing to change that. 

Nor does it change the fact that truck driving is something most could do if they put their minds to it. Which is reflected in the compensation.

So back to the original statement: $120k is absurd compensation for a truck driver. I could see some niche situations where it may be warranted, but that would be quite an outlier not a representative salary. 

In a capitalist system the question would be…

Do we have enough truckers willing to do the job for the pay being offered? Is "supply” high or low?

No = raise the pay

Yes = lower the pay

 

24 minutes ago, MidMoFo said:

In a capitalist system the question would be…

Do we have enough truckers willing to do the job for the pay being offered? Is "supply” high or low?

No = raise the pay

Yes = lower the pay

 

Did you miss the part where I said 450k new truck drivers get licensed every year?

21 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Did you miss the part where I said 450k new truck drivers get licensed every year?

Nope. Do we have a NEED for more?

2 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Seems I triggered some of you.

I'm sorry, but with enough training and practice any able bodied person can learn to drive a truck and park it into tight spaces.

Upwards of 90% of those who take CDL classes pass. And 450k new CDL licenses are issued every year. 

Do you think 90% of those who would be doctors, lawyers, engineers, or even school teachers have the same graduation rates? And what percentage of those who do graduate with an engineering degree actually obtain a career in their field?

Virtually any poster on this board could become a truck driver if they wanted to. But few could become school teachers. Even fewer could become doctors or engineers. 

If you want to take offense to what I'm saying that's not my fault. My point is that in a capitalist system salary is set based on supply and demand of that job market. For sure demand for drivers is high. And the job has its challenges. So does every job, and a litany of challenges of the job does nothing to change that. 

Nor does it change the fact that truck driving is something most could do if they put their minds to it. Which is reflected in the compensation.

So back to the original statement: $120k is absurd compensation for a truck driver. I could see some niche situations where it may be warranted, but that would be quite an outlier not a representative salary. 

Now change it to teachers…

57 minutes ago, MidMoFo said:

In a capitalist system the question would be…

Do we have enough truckers willing to do the job for the pay being offered? Is "supply” high or low?

No = raise the pay

Yes = lower the pay

 

No it would be increase efficiency so you need fewer drivers

4 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

No it would be increase efficiency so you need fewer drivers

If automated driving trucks, rail, etc are more feasible… then yes.

Lol...... this guy is a trip...... few can become engineers.  Hey snow...... I  AM an engineer with a degree.... and I drove a truck for a few years.

 I  am just pointing out the elitist thinking that you have going on.

To have such a demeaning outlook on a profession since to your thought process it is a "simple" job, without having firsthand experience of such said job is sad. 

 

" with enough training" lol lol...... this is where your elitist attitude really shines through. 

With enough training anyone can do ANYTHING. 

Imma guessing the only time you ever sweat while working is when the office a/c quit running. 

To anyone reading this thread I will no longer entertain snow and his upper crust mentality since it's obvious he so so far removed from what the real world is all about. 

My personal intent was not to do disservice to anyone who has put the time in and learned to do any profession. Good for them. I just noticed something from a person that is really dead inside. 

 

13 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I don't doubt they work hard, and their job is important.

But it's also a job that most any able bodied person can do. Which makes the candidate pool quite large and individual drivers fairly replaceable. 

I agree with it's not a skill that is super difficult to learn and do to an extent. They are not getting paid so much for the skill as they are getting paid for the quality of driver.

The drivers are responsible for moving hundreds of thousands of dollars in product. 1 eff up and you just cost that company hundreds of thousands and depending on what they are hauling could be millions. 1 eff up can cause lives as well.

These companies are going to pay top dollar for the best drivers to protect their investment. You need quality drivers or it can cost you your business. Paying a driver 100,000 over a year is a small price to pay for what they can lose with an incompetent driver. You pay them more then they have more to lose and more likely those drivers are going to be careful and do the job right. 

I know a little bit about this because my grandfather's trucking company got sued out of existence because of his driver's effing up hundred thousand dollar loads and killing people on the road. 

My dad drove for 30 yrs and he made a lot of money but even he said he would never do it again for any amount it's not worth the hassles these drivers face and the fines and the potential of killing someone on today's roads. 

You can teach a person how to shovel manure in about 30 seconds. Doesn’t require a license. 
 

Not everyone is physically able to do it.

Even less are physically able to do it ALL day long.

Not everyone is willing to do it, but even less people are willing to do it for minimum wage.

3 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Did you miss the part where I said 450k new truck drivers get licensed every year?

Not all CDLs are for 18 wheelers. Trash trucks require a CDL, I know a few townships require a CDL for plows, some tow truck companies require them. Point is these are people getting CDLs but not represented in the 18 wheeler community people think of when they think truck drivers/CDLs. 

3 hours ago, Steve 17 said:

Lol...... this guy is a trip...... few can become engineers.  Hey snow...... I  AM an engineer with a degree.... and I drove a truck for a few years.

 I  am just pointing out the elitist thinking that you have going on.

To have such a demeaning outlook on a profession since to your thought process it is a "simple" job, without having firsthand experience of such said job is sad. 

 

" with enough training" lol lol...... this is where your elitist attitude really shines through. 

With enough training anyone can do ANYTHING. 

Imma guessing the only time you ever sweat while working is when the office a/c quit running. 

To anyone reading this thread I will no longer entertain snow and his upper crust mentality since it's obvious he so so far removed from what the real world is all about. 

My personal intent was not to do disservice to anyone who has put the time in and learned to do any profession. Good for them. I just noticed something from a person that is really dead inside. 

 

Dude, you need to relax. Literally all I said was that the job of truck driving is relatively attainable for anyone who's able bodied, and the salary reflects that. 

Every job has dignity. Yet you have been far more disrespectful to white collar workers than I was about blue collar. 

All I did was point out the obvious about which jobs have larger potential candidate pools and how that impacts compensation. 

And your armchair psychiatry is way off. I'm the only white collar son of a blue collar family. I spent plenty of summers swinging hammers, puttying molding, and spraying out houses. 

I have plenty do respect for anyone who puts in an honest day's work. That doesn't mean they're immune to the realities of market forces.

What is it about truckers that gives them their inflated sense of self importance? The Trump wing of my family has a number of truckers and they all do the same thing as you did: get their backs up at any perceived slight of blue collar work. 

3 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I agree with it's not a skill that is super difficult to learn and do to an extent. They are not getting paid so much for the skill as they are getting paid for the quality of driver.

The drivers are responsible for moving hundreds of thousands of dollars in product. 1 eff up and you just cost that company hundreds of thousands and depending on what they are hauling could be millions. 1 eff up can cause lives as well.

These companies are going to pay top dollar for the best drivers to protect their investment. You need quality drivers or it can cost you your business. Paying a driver 100,000 over a year is a small price to pay for what they can lose with an incompetent driver. You pay them more then they have more to lose and more likely those drivers are going to be careful and do the job right. 

I know a little bit about this because my grandfather's trucking company got sued out of existence because of his driver's effing up hundred thousand dollar loads and killing people on the road. 

My dad drove for 30 yrs and he made a lot of money but even he said he would never do it again for any amount it's not worth the hassles these drivers face and the fines and the potential of killing someone on today's roads. 

I agree with all of that. As I said in an earlier post it's a job that has its difficult elements - same as any job.

All I said was that $120k as an average salary is not reasonable given how attainable a CDL is for most. Artificial market forces like a crazy strong union or regulatory burdens choking supply are the only ways a market could reach equilibrium at $120k for an average trucker.

For sure there are some outlier cases like hauling hazmat that might result in some really highly compensated individual drivers. But that's atypical.

As I said as well I respect anybody who puts in an honest day's work, whether they are picking oranges or performing surgery. It's not my fault the blue collar defense force got their back up because I dare say something like "most people are capable of earning their CDL, so market forces alone would never see truck drivers averaging $120k".

2 hours ago, 20dawk4life said:

Not all CDLs are for 18 wheelers. Trash trucks require a CDL, I know a few townships require a CDL for plows, some tow truck companies require them. Point is these are people getting CDLs but not represented in the 18 wheeler community people think of when they think truck drivers/CDLs. 

Fair, but my point really is that the potential supply of truck drivers is significantly larger than for many other professions. That alone would make averaging $120k in today's dollars unattainable as an average.

7 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Seems I triggered some of you.

I'm sorry, but with enough training and practice any able bodied person can learn to drive a truck and park it into tight spaces.

Upwards of 90% of those who take CDL classes pass. And 450k new CDL licenses are issued every year. 

Do you think 90% of those who would be doctors, lawyers, engineers, or even school teachers have the same graduation rates? And what percentage of those who do graduate with an engineering degree actually obtain a career in their field?

Virtually any poster on this board could become a truck driver if they wanted to. But few could become school teachers. Even fewer could become doctors or engineers. 

If you want to take offense to what I'm saying that's not my fault. My point is that in a capitalist system salary is set based on supply and demand of that job market. For sure demand for drivers is high. And the job has its challenges. So does every job, and a litany of challenges of the job does nothing to change that. 

Nor does it change the fact that truck driving is something most could do if they put their minds to it. Which is reflected in the compensation.

So back to the original statement: $120k is absurd compensation for a truck driver. I could see some niche situations where it may be warranted, but that would be quite an outlier not a representative salary. 

Not true.

School teachers are among the worst performing college grads. They’re the Fast food worker’s of college grads.

Anyway, the market determines what truck drivers are worth (unlike public school teachers). Looking it up, the average salary is $75K a year. Sounds about right. Stressful/rough life style with long hours away from home will command a higher than average salary.

50 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Fair, but my point really is that the potential supply of truck drivers is significantly larger than for many other professions. That alone would make averaging $120k in today's dollars unattainable as an average.

Yet we still here about driver shortages. 

15 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said:

Yet we still here about driver shortages. 

And I work in the grocery retail industry there 100% a shortage of drivers. There are driving jobs everywhere, they also compete with each other. I can't tell you how many times we get a call that our delivery is sitting at the warehouse because a driver baled on the job to go get more money on a different run. A lot of those guys own their own rig so they are gonna take the job that pays more to pay for it. 

16 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said:

Yet we still here about driver shortages. 

Same as every industry, especially those part of the supply chain.

Demand is crazy right now.

That's why you see inflation - both for consumer goods and for wages.

Govt subsidizing demand worked so well  in education and healthcare after all…

I would rather explore tax incentives for kids vs direct involvement in daycares/etc. I get that the left likes to hold up studies about kids getting cared for by government run centers during WWII when moms were riveting equipment for the war, but that was a brief period of time with no expectation of permanence. Market forces for subsidies over a longer period of time are going to have the same upwards pressure that you see inflating college tuition.

I've not given it much thought, but I wonder what effect a different tax credit for stay at home parents vs. dual-income might do. Incentives to encourage two parent homes, one parent staying home, whatever we think is optimal. 

We should not be incentivizing either

let people make their decisions and deal with whatever that requires of them 

On 10/26/2021 at 8:56 AM, EaglesRocker97 said:

These shortages are just as much about overconsumption as anything. Americans simply can't be happy unless they're buying all of the things all of the time. If modesty and sustainability are already a way of life for you, you'd hardly notice a thing.

nailed it....I've had this discussion with a lot of people...in essence, we are a spoiled, entitled culture: 

We want it NOW, We want it CHEAP, and we want it WITHOUT RESTRICTION...

I remember years ago when gas prices first spiked to the mid $3s (2006?)...suddenly people with huge gas guzzlers were scrambling to trade in for Honda Civics, and Toyota Corollas...Dealerships were filling up (no pun intended) with trade in trucks and SUVs....and GEO Metros were going for stupid prices pre-owned...
so somehow the old cliche about "I want a big car for safety"  went out the window...

maybe some good that might come from this is that people will hold on to things longer....maybe people will get things fixed instead of saying "just get a new one"..ergo maybe we will see some repair and service industries make a comeback?  I'm no economic expert by any means...but wouldn't this manifest in more prudent spending by necessity?