Brandon is the worst.

1 hour ago, vikas83 said:

Few thoughts in response to the recent posts

1. Tax rebate/windfall profit nonsense -- stop it, Congress. Just stop it. We have serious inflation and the answer is to further subsidize demand? Only politicians could be this stupid. And while we are at it...stop with the cheap talking points about price gouging or obscene profits. First off, companies have a fiduciary duty to make us much money as possible, and this means charging the price for gas that maximizes profits (before the loss of volume outweighs the impact of higher prices). There's no such thing as price gouging unless they are colluding to artificially set prices (and there is no evidence of that). Oh, and spoiler alert -- if you give people tax credits, IT WILL SUPPORT DEMAND AND THEREFORE EVEN HIGHER PRICES. Second, to the geniuses crying that gas prices don't drop as fast as oil prices -- yeah, no ****. There are 3 reasons -- (i) the oil being refined was bought previously at higher prices, (ii) prices are sticky and there is a cost to changing them and (iii) gas is a somewhat inelastic good, so people will keep paying. Punishing companies for making more money is just about the most ridiculous idea in history.

2. Be Less Poor -- The biggest problem people have is they don't view their wealth properly. Capital is an asset, and therefore should generate returns. People think about making money to spend it -- try building up some wealth, and letting that asset generate returns (interest, dividends, etc.). 

3. Americans suck at math -- yes, they do. But it's crazy that we don't teach basic financial literacy to high school seniors. How mortgages work, how a credit card works. Even how the banking system works. Florida of all places just passed a law to require this -- more states need to follow.

Time value of money is lost on a lot of the young generation.  It's something that absolutely should be taught.  They're too busy trying to keep up with the joneses of having the latest greatest of everything.  New cars as soon as they pay off their old, newest iphone, dining out/door dashing all the time, etc...I guess by today's standards I'm cheap.  I drive my cars until they become unreliable or cost more to maintain than the cost of new one, cook 6 nights a week, phones usually 4 years, no CC debt, etc...We capitalized on interest rates and refinanced down to a 15 at 1.99% since we could afford the extra principal, meanwhile we know plenty of families refinancing back to 30 and taking money out to buy stuff.  Congrats, you just set yourself back 5-10 years.  Hoping by the time I'm 53 I'll be debt and child free with a great nest egg just by living within our means and saving what we can.  Sitting on a .21 debt to equity ratio with the mortgage currently.  Granted I'm pretty debt adverse except when it comes to a mortgage since the market will outperform that in the long run anyway.

3 minutes ago, rambo said:

Time value of money is lost on a lot of the young generation.  It's something that absolutely should be taught.  They're too busy trying to keep up with the joneses of having the latest greatest of everything.  New cars as soon as they pay off their old, newest iphone, dining out/door dashing all the time, etc...I guess by today's standards I'm cheap.  I drive my cars until they become unreliable or cost more to maintain than the cost of new one, cook 6 nights a week, phones usually 4 years, no CC debt, etc...We capitalized on interest rates and refinanced down to a 15 at 1.99% since we could afford the extra principal, meanwhile we know plenty of families refinancing back to 30 and taking money out to buy stuff.  Congrats, you just set yourself back 5-10 years.  Hoping by the time I'm 53 I'll be debt and child free with a great nest egg just by living within our means and saving what we can.  Sitting on a .21 debt to equity ratio with the mortgage currently.  Granted I'm pretty debt adverse except when it comes to a mortgage since the market will outperform that in the long run anyway.

I don't mind debt -- I can borrow at rates cheaper than I earn on my investments. But I could pay it all off tomorrow if I wanted to. I've always focused more on the revenue line item than the cost -- my view is time I spend worrying about expenses would be better utilized making more money. But my income is based on profits generated, not a salary.

3 minutes ago, rambo said:

Time value of money is lost on a lot of the young generation.  It's something that absolutely should be taught.  They're too busy trying to keep up with the joneses of having the latest greatest of everything.  New cars as soon as they pay off their old, newest iphone, dining out/door dashing all the time, etc...I guess by today's standards I'm cheap.  I drive my cars until they become unreliable or cost more to maintain than the cost of new one, cook 6 nights a week, phones usually 4 years, no CC debt, etc...We capitalized on interest rates and refinanced down to a 15 at 1.99% since we could afford the extra principal, meanwhile we know plenty of families refinancing back to 30 and taking money out to buy stuff.  Congrats, you just set yourself back 5-10 years.  Hoping by the time I'm 53 I'll be debt and child free with a great nest egg just by living within our means and saving what we can.  Sitting on a .21 debt to equity ratio with the mortgage currently.  Granted I'm pretty debt adverse except when it comes to a mortgage since the market will outperform that in the long run anyway.

My brother in law and his wife are like this.  He works in sales, making decent money, but has ZERO savings or anything in the way of retirement.  She manages a local club/restauarant/bar - again makes decent money in tips, etc, but has no plans for retirement.  They JUST bought a house (he's 45) - she just bought a brand new Durango (her previous one was 3 years old), and she just got a boob job (she's a good bit younger than him, like mid 30s)   Oh, and they just had a baby in August, and he has 3 kids from his first marriage.  And I almost forgot!  They're going to Mexico for the second time in the past year on vacation.

10 minutes ago, rambo said:

Time value of money is lost on a lot of the young generation.  It's something that absolutely should be taught.  They're too busy trying to keep up with the joneses of having the latest greatest of everything.  New cars as soon as they pay off their old, newest iphone, dining out/door dashing all the time, etc...I guess by today's standards I'm cheap.  I drive my cars until they become unreliable or cost more to maintain than the cost of new one, cook 6 nights a week, phones usually 4 years, no CC debt, etc...We capitalized on interest rates and refinanced down to a 15 at 1.99% since we could afford the extra principal, meanwhile we know plenty of families refinancing back to 30 and taking money out to buy stuff.  Congrats, you just set yourself back 5-10 years.  Hoping by the time I'm 53 I'll be debt and child free with a great nest egg just by living within our means and saving what we can.  Sitting on a .21 debt to equity ratio with the mortgage currently.  Granted I'm pretty debt adverse except when it comes to a mortgage since the market will outperform that in the long run anyway.

Same here. Got down to 2.5%....should have waited just a few more months but it's spiking back up so I'll consider myself fortunate. You putting the kids through college? Still trying to figure out the right amount to put away.

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I don't mind debt -- I can borrow at rates cheaper than I earn on my investments. But I could pay it all off tomorrow if I wanted to. I've always focused more on the revenue line item than the cost -- my view is time I spend worrying about expenses would be better utilized making more money. But my income is based on profits generated, not a salary.

Exactly.  Business is a lot different than personal finance for the majority of America.  Obviously you'd be investing in capital to generate revenues that will outstrip the acquisition debt/costs.  I could get into the real estate realm with investment properties or rentals but quite frankly I don't want the headache.  Maybe if kids weren't sucking up the majority of my disposable income and time I'd think differently.

4 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

Same here. Got down to 2.5%....should have waited just a few more months but it's spiking back up so I'll consider myself fortunate. You putting the kids through college? Still trying to figure out the right amount to put away.

Depends on what they want to major in. 

1 minute ago, rambo said:

 

Depends on what they want to major in. 

Amen! I'll be having that talk with them eventually.

21 minutes ago, mikemack8 said:

My brother in law and his wife are like this.  He works in sales, making decent money, but has ZERO savings or anything in the way of retirement.  She manages a local club/restauarant/bar - again makes decent money in tips, etc, but has no plans for retirement.  They JUST bought a house (he's 45) - she just bought a brand new Durango (her previous one was 3 years old), and she just got a boob job (she's a good bit younger than him, like mid 30s)   Oh, and they just had a baby in August, and he has 3 kids from his first marriage.  And I almost forgot!  They're going to Mexico for the second time in the past year on vacation.

Well since she's in the club industry I'd mark the boob job down as a capital investment.  Should increase her tip revenue stream. 

My wife works in the travel industry and there are finance companies that just finance people's vacations.  It's Fing sad.  Dumb crap's probably have don't have the borrowing capacity on their CC's because they're maxed or can't get enough credit and they're financing a friggin vacation.

19 minutes ago, rambo said:

Time value of money is lost on a lot of the young generation.  It's something that absolutely should be taught.  They're too busy trying to keep up with the joneses of having the latest greatest of everything.  New cars as soon as they pay off their old, newest iphone, dining out/door dashing all the time, etc...I guess by today's standards I'm cheap.  I drive my cars until they become unreliable or cost more to maintain than the cost of new one, cook 6 nights a week, phones usually 4 years, no CC debt, etc...We capitalized on interest rates and refinanced down to a 15 at 1.99% since we could afford the extra principal, meanwhile we know plenty of families refinancing back to 30 and taking money out to buy stuff.  Congrats, you just set yourself back 5-10 years.  Hoping by the time I'm 53 I'll be debt and child free with a great nest egg just by living within our means and saving what we can.  Sitting on a .21 debt to equity ratio with the mortgage currently.  Granted I'm pretty debt adverse except when it comes to a mortgage since the market will outperform that in the long run anyway.

Yup it's the second half of this that's the real issue. Taking money out of a refi to invest in index funds isn't a guarantee to be the "right" choice financially, but historically speaking, it probably is more often than not. But taking that money out to just buy stuff is stupid even with super low rates. Sure it's better than running up CCs, but still misses the boat for the reasons you mentioned. 

3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Yup it's the second half of this that's the real issue. Taking money out of a refi to invest in index funds isn't a guarantee to be the "right" choice financially, but historically speaking, it probably is more often than not. But taking that money out to just buy stuff is stupid even with super low rates. Sure it's better than running up CCs, but still misses the boat for the reasons you mentioned. 

Some are smart and consolidate their high interest debt into the mortgage, but what's going to stop them from running that right back up?  They didn't have the sense in the first place.  They get that little bit of breathing/spending room and I'd bet they go right back to old habits.  You hope they learned their lesson but more often then not they'll wind up right back where they were down the road.

7 minutes ago, rambo said:

Well since she's in the club industry I'd mark the boob job down as a capital investment.  Should increase her tip revenue stream. 

My wife works in the travel industry and there's finance companies that just finance people's vacations.  It's Fing sad.  Dumb crap's probably have don't have the borrowing capacity on their CC's because they're maxed or can't get enough credit and they're financing a friggin vacation.

Years ago I used to moonlight for a tax preparer (think like H&R Block, Jackson Hewitt, etc.). We'd offer Tax Refund advance loans so you could get your refund on the spot, same day, instead of waiting for IRS to process your return. Interest would often approach 80% APR or more with fees. (Since you have to pay for tax preparation, plus loan costs and interest, etc.) That's right, not 8.0%, 80%. And people would apply for them left and right. If you can't afford to wait that long for your refund, why do you withhold that much taxes in the first place? Give the government a free loan of your money, then pay loads of fees to get it back early the next year? Makes no sense.

2 minutes ago, toolg said:

Years ago I used to moonlight for a tax preparer (think like H&R Block, Jackson Hewitt, etc.). We'd offer Tax Refund advance loans so you could get your refund on the spot, same day, instead of waiting for IRS to process your return. Interest would often approach 80% APR or more with fees. (Since you have to pay for tax preparation, plus loan costs and interest, etc.) That's right, not 8.0%, 80%. And people would apply for them left and right. If you can't afford to wait that long for your refund, why do you withhold that much taxes in the first place? Give the government a free loan of your money, then pay loads of fees to get it back early the next year? Makes no sense.

 Maybe we need another pandemic

3 minutes ago, toolg said:

Years ago I used to moonlight for a tax preparer (think like H&R Block, Jackson Hewitt, etc.). We'd offer Tax Refund advance loans so you could get your refund on the spot, same day, instead of waiting for IRS to process your return. Interest would often approach 80% APR or more with fees. (Since you have to pay for tax preparation, plus loan costs and interest, etc.) That's right, not 8.0%, 80%. And people would apply for them left and right. If you can't afford to wait that long for your refund, why do you withhold that much taxes in the first place? Give the government a free loan of your money, then pay loads of fees to get it back early the next year? Makes no sense.

They don't know that they're the reason it's happening.

2 minutes ago, toolg said:

Years ago I used to moonlight for a tax preparer (think like H&R Block, Jackson Hewitt, etc.). We'd offer Tax Refund advance loans so you could get your refund on the spot, same day, instead of waiting for IRS to process your return. Interest would often approach 80% APR or more with fees. (Since you have to pay for tax preparation, plus loan costs and interest, etc.) That's right, not 8.0%, 80%. And people would apply for them left and right. If you can't afford to wait that long for your refund, why do you withhold that much taxes in the first place? Give the government a free loan of your money, then pay loads of fees to get it back early the next year? Makes no sense.

My parents, in their retirement years, have been working for H&R Block (my mom basically since I left the house and went to college). It gives them a place to go and keeps them busy. Back when they offered the Rapid Refund loans, my mom would BEG people not to take them, saying they were a ripoff. But people needed to take the kids to Disney. Almost all the returns they do are people with a single W-2 and a standard deduction -- an 8 year old could do the taxes. And they pay a few hundred bucks instead.

1 minute ago, Paul852 said:

They don't know that they're the reason it's happening.

Now it's not about getting back what was withheld. It's the free money from things like the child tax credit. We've gone past just making people pay zero taxes...we're on to negative taxes.

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

My parents, in their retirement years, have been working for H&R Block (my mom basically since I left the house and went to college). It gives them a place to go and keeps them busy. Back when they offered the Rapid Refund loans, my mom would BEG people not to take them, saying they were a ripoff. But people needed to take the kids to Disney. Almost all the returns they do are people with a single W-2 and a standard deduction -- an 8 year old could do the taxes. And they pay a few hundred bucks instead.

This is what blows my mind the most. Either these people could do them on their own or just use a free tax software. The same way older people are afraid of technology because they'll "break it" it seems everyone is afraid of doing their taxes and ending up in jail.

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

My parents, in their retirement years, have been working for H&R Block (my mom basically since I left the house and went to college). It gives them a place to go and keeps them busy. Back when they offered the Rapid Refund loans, my mom would BEG people not to take them, saying they were a ripoff. But people needed to take the kids to Disney. Almost all the returns they do are people with a single W-2 and a standard deduction -- an 8 year old could do the taxes. And they pay a few hundred bucks instead.

True.   I did it because I was young, just starting out with a new house, some extra time, and could use the extra cash. I worked with a lot of people like your parents. A lot of the returns I did were for people like me: just starting out, not ready for an accountant, but have a new house and need a "professional" return done. That was my specialty. Or people who ran a small business from home (like a cleaning business). Or retirees with pension income that could be tricky...  But most of them came for the ripoff loans. It was crazy.

2 minutes ago, toolg said:

True.   I did it because I was young, just starting out with a new house, some extra time, and could use the extra cash. I worked with a lot of people like your parents. A lot of the returns I did were for people like me: just starting out, not ready for an accountant, but have a new house and need a "professional" return done. That was my specialty. Or people who ran a small business from home (like a cleaning business). Or retirees with pension income that could be tricky...  But most of them came for the ripoff loans. It was crazy.

Every year my dad offers to do my taxes. I have to gently let him know (i) my taxes are a little too complicated for him and (ii) I know he's just trying to find out how much I make.

3 hours ago, vikas83 said:

Now it's not about getting back what was withheld. It's the free money from things like the child tax credit. We've gone past just making people pay zero taxes...we're on to negative taxes.

Welfare state must grow, comrade 

6 hours ago, mikemack8 said:

My brother in law and his wife are like this.  He works in sales, making decent money, but has ZERO savings or anything in the way of retirement.  She manages a local club/restauarant/bar - again makes decent money in tips, etc, but has no plans for retirement.  They JUST bought a house (he's 45) - she just bought a brand new Durango (her previous one was 3 years old), and she just got a boob job (she's a good bit younger than him, like mid 30s)   Oh, and they just had a baby in August, and he has 3 kids from his first marriage.  And I almost forgot!  They're going to Mexico for the second time in the past year on vacation.

Pics or it didn’t happen 

and

 

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, The_Omega said:

Pics or it didn’t happen 

and

 

 

 

 

Inflation means... more Applebees?

Gross.

6 minutes ago, toolg said:

Inflation means... more Applebees?

Gross.

"Paycheck to paycheck," or, if you're a server, more like handout to handout.

"Force people back into the workforce" is funny. The unemployment rate is 3.8%, which I believe is within the range that economists consider "full employment." These people just can't find the mental fortitude to admit that their jobs suck and no one wants to work at Applebees.

4 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

These people just can't find the mental fortitude to admit that their jobs suck and no one wants to work at Applebees.

I don’t even want to eat at Applebees. The food sucks. The whole place sucks.