The Alec Baldwin Shooting

[binkybink77]

Alec Baldwin is also one of the producers so he has liability from multiple sides here.  What I don't understand is why real guns that can fire live ammo even used in movies?  Actors are Fing dumb.   Like really dumb and arrogant and surrounded by yes men their whole lives.. they shouldn't be trusted with real firearms.  

[Dwide Schrude]

I think responsibility falls on a lot of people here, and I’m not quick to blame Baldwin yet for pulling the trigger. The producers are mainly at fault for hiring the inexperienced armorer, Baldwin is a producer so he deserves to take blame for this. If safety concerns were already a big deal, and workers on set left because of this, producers should take all the heat for this. The armorer is also at fault for not executing her job properly even when she knew she wasn’t that capable. Judging by the look of her, she doesn’t *seem* like the type to be experienced with firearms at all. 
 

Im trying to find the article to back this up, but I watched a YouTube video commenting on this tragedy and the YouTuber had said that Baldwin was pointing the gun at the camera & fired because that was the scene. That’s when the unfortunate situation occurred. I’lll keep looking for a source to back this up and post in here when & if I find it.

 

also there’s this, a camera operator did say Baldwin was really careful & followed all the safety protocols. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-very-careful-prop-guns-rust-accidental-shooting.amp

 

[Dwide Schrude]

Here’s the article stating that Baldwin was supposed to point gun at camera for this scene. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-accidental-shooting-details-halyna-hutchins-death.amp
 

[VaBeach_Eagle]

5 minutes ago, Dwide Schrude said:

I think responsibility falls on a lot of people here, and I’m not quick to blame Baldwin yet for pulling the trigger. 

Judging by the look of her, she doesn’t *seem* like the type to be experienced with firearms at all. 

Im trying to find the article to back this up, but I watched a YouTube video commenting on this tragedy and the YouTuber had said that Baldwin was pointing the gun at the camera & fired because that was the scene.

From what I read, her father was an experienced set armorer and had been teaching her 'the ropes' for a while (I forget how long). But of course, her father's expertise doesn't qualify her for the job, but I wouldn't judge a book by its cover. She could have been the most competent armorer in Hollywood... or the least. It's all about training and experience.

My impression of her, from what I read, was that she was moderately trained and lightly experienced. So probably shouldn't have been in charge of the weapons. At least not without someone else there with more experience to aid her. 

I've seen it reported (on TV) that he was pointing at the camera, as you described. I kind of figured that was the case. Also, Baldwin may have been extremely careful and practiced great gun safety, but he still pulled the trigger on a gun that he wasn't 100% positively certain was not loaded with live ammo... and by that, I mean opening the cylinder and removing the rounds to visually inspect what they are. Or at the very least, having the gun handler do it in front of him and then re-load it while he watched. You can tell the difference between blanks and rounds. 

I don't know what he was shooting, but let's assume it was a Single Action Army (popular in the era that the movie was set), that takes a .45 Colt, in the images below there's a Single Action Army with some blanks, below that, a .45 Colt live round:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

It may not be a legal requirement for him to check the load, and maybe he did everything 'legally' required so that he's not criminally liable, but I still believe that no matter what, he had the absolute obligation to know exactly what was going to happen when he pulled that trigger, and he didn't. He thought he did, but he obviously didn't know what kind of ammunition was loaded into the pistol. 

[TEW]

22 minutes ago, Dwide Schrude said:

I think responsibility falls on a lot of people here, and I’m not quick to blame Baldwin yet for pulling the trigger. The producers are mainly at fault for hiring the inexperienced armorer, Baldwin is a producer so he deserves to take blame for this. If safety concerns were already a big deal, and workers on set left because of this, producers should take all the heat for this. The armorer is also at fault for not executing her job properly even when she knew she wasn’t that capable. Judging by the look of her, she doesn’t *seem* like the type to be experienced with firearms at all. 
 

Im trying to find the article to back this up, but I watched a YouTube video commenting on this tragedy and the YouTuber had said that Baldwin was pointing the gun at the camera & fired because that was the scene. That’s when the unfortunate situation occurred. I’lll keep looking for a source to back this up and post in here when & if I find it.

 

also there’s this, a camera operator did say Baldwin was really careful & followed all the safety protocols. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-very-careful-prop-guns-rust-accidental-shooting.amp

 

The very first thing you should learn with gun handling is to never point the weapon at something g you aren’t willing to shoot. The second rule is to always check the weapon yourself when you handle it.

These procedures are the equivalent to looking both ways when you cross the street or stopping at a red light.

[Dwide Schrude]

2 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

From what I read, her father was an experienced set armorer and had been teaching her 'the ropes' for a while (I forget how long). But of course, her father's expertise doesn't qualify her for the job, but I wouldn't judge a book by its cover. She could have been the most competent armorer in Hollywood... or the least. It's all about training and experience.

My impression of her, from what I read, was that she was moderately trained and lightly experienced. So probably shouldn't have been in charge of the weapons. At least not without someone else there with more experience to aid her. 

I've seen it reported (on TV) that he was pointing at the camera, as you described. I kind of figured that was the case. Also, Baldwin may have been extremely careful and practiced great gun safety, but he still pulled the trigger on a gun that he wasn't 100% positively certain was not loaded with live ammo... and by that, I mean opening the cylinder and removing the rounds to visually inspect what they are. Or at the very least, having the gun handler do it in front of him and then re-load it while he watched. You can tell the difference between blanks and rounds. 

I don't know what he was shooting, but let's assume it was a Single Action Army (popular in the era that the movie was set), that takes a .45 Colt, in the images below there's a Single Action Army with some blanks, below that, a .45 Colt live round:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

It may not be a legal requirement for him to check the load, and maybe he did everything 'legally' required so that he's not criminally liable, but I still believe that no matter what, he had the absolute obligation to know exactly what was going to happen when he pulled that trigger, and he didn't. He thought he did, but he obviously didn't know what kind of ammunition was loaded into the pistol. 

Baldwin probably could of probably done more to be safe, his crucial mistake was going off the word of an assistant director that it was a cold gun. I grew up with firearms, going out shooting or hunting was apart of my families life, and when you’re around guns in that capacity you know above all else that gun safety is top priority. Even if someone hands me a gun and says the safety is on/it’s not loaded. I’m still checking myself even if I completely trust them. It’s likely details will still be coming out from all sides to get a better picture of what happened. I’m not trying to defend Baldwin, he has liability and fault in this there’s no denying that. But I believe people are being too quick to solely place blame on Baldwin, acting as if he was being completely negligent or acting as a moron. 
 

7 minutes ago, TEW said:

The very first thing you should learn with gun handling is to never point the weapon at something g you aren’t willing to shoot. The second rule is to always check the weapon yourself when you handle it.

These procedures are the equivalent to looking both ways when you cross the street or stopping at a red light.

I understand that and agree. I was raised with firearms. He is at fault for not checking the gun himself, as for the scene it was supposed to be aimed at the camera. That was supposed to be the shot. Those people should not of been standing in line of the shot either, just as a precaution. Or they shouldn’t of done that scene. But it is Hollywood, these people probably deal with prop guns and scenes like this so much that they never give it a second thought.

[VaBeach_Eagle]

11 minutes ago, Dwide Schrude said:

I grew up with firearms, going out shooting or hunting was apart of my families life, and when you’re around guns in that capacity you know above all else that gun safety is top priority. Even if someone hands me a gun and says the safety is on/it’s not loaded. I’m still checking myself even if I completely trust them.

Same here, I think I fired my first gun before I was 5 years old. Well supervised, of course. Owned my first BB/Pellet gun (rifle) when I was... maybe 10. 

Whenever I even hand one of my pistols or rifles to someone, I always show them that it's unloaded by removing the magazine, pulling the slide/charging handle back, and showing them an empty chamber. If it's a revolver, I open the cylinder and hand it to them that way (empty).Of course, on the set of a movie, things are different but gun safety should never be different. 

[TEW]

22 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Same here, I think I fired my first gun before I was 5 years old. Well supervised, of course. Owned my first BB/Pellet gun (rifle) when I was... maybe 10. 

Whenever I even hand one of my pistols or rifles to someone, I always show them that it's unloaded by removing the magazine, pulling the slide/charging handle back, and showing them an empty chamber. If it's a revolver, I open the cylinder and hand it to them that way (empty).Of course, on the set of a movie, things are different but gun safety should never be different. 

Exactly.

The actor should be checking the firearm themselves before the scene or rehearsal is performed. This is just basic safety. Like you said, stuff 5 year olds learn. But I guess it makes sense that normal 5 year olds are more knowledgeable than Hollywood actors.

[binkybink77]

The thing with firearms is you ALWAYS need to give them a second thought. And a third. I’m sure he feels terrible but he did act negligently. And let’s be honest - it’s particularly rich from a guy who deems it his place to lecture others about gun rights and gun control. The man is wealthy because he’s an actor - you know a hot shot. The rules of gun safety don’t apply to him  - just all the responsible gun owners who never would have made this fatal mistake. 

[dawkins4prez]

52 minutes ago, Dwide Schrude said:

Baldwin probably could of probably done more to be safe, his crucial mistake was going off the word of an assistant director that it was a cold gun. I grew up with firearms, going out shooting or hunting was apart of my families life, and when you’re around guns in that capacity you know above all else that gun safety is top priority. Even if someone hands me a gun and says the safety is on/it’s not loaded. I’m still checking myself even if I completely trust them. It’s likely details will still be coming out from all sides to get a better picture of what happened. I’m not trying to defend Baldwin, he has liability and fault in this there’s no denying that. But I believe people are being too quick to solely place blame on Baldwin, acting as if he was being completely negligent or acting as a moron. 
 

I understand that and agree. I was raised with firearms. He is at fault for not checking the gun himself, as for the scene it was supposed to be aimed at the camera. That was supposed to be the shot. Those people should not of been standing in line of the shot either, just as a precaution. Or they shouldn’t of done that scene. But it is Hollywood, these people probably deal with prop guns and scenes like this so much that they never give it a second thought.

Pretty sure everybody pounding their chests on gun safety have never worked on an action movie where you are getting handed guns, NONE of which are supposed to be loaded, a dozen times over the course of the day while trying to do their job which is, you know, acting.  This is ALL on the person who's literal job is to handle those props while a million other things are happening simultaneously on set.

 

But don't worry Baldwin haters, he will get soaked for this on multiple levels, he's a producer for a movie that might not get finished and will be sued through every orifice.

[binkybink77]

2 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Pretty sure everybody pounding their chests on gun safety have never worked on an action movie where you are getting handed guns, NONE of which are supposed to be loaded, a dozen times over the course of the day while trying to do their job which is, you know, acting.  This is all on the person who's literal job is to handle those props while a million other things are happening simultaneously on set.

Yeah it’s definitely not worth the 15 seconds it takes to check the weapon. Not like lives are at stake - gotta keep up with that crazy important production schedule 🙄

[binkybink77]

Like I literally cannot fathom anyone handing me a firearm and saying go ahead and point it at that person and pull the trigger and NOT checking it myself first.. 🤡 🌎   

[binkybink77]

Like Alec Baldwin is far too busy and important to check the gun handed to him before shooting someone in the face. But has plenty of time to lecture Americans about the NRA - who you know, promotes gun safety. 

[Shepard Wong]

Someone forget to close the gate in CVON?

[Dwide Schrude]

2 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

Pretty sure everybody pounding their chests on gun safety have never worked on an action movie where you are getting handed guns, NONE of which are supposed to be loaded, a dozen times over the course of the day while trying to do their job which is, you know, acting.  This is ALL on the person who's literal job is to handle those props while a million other things are happening simultaneously on set.

 

But don't worry Baldwin haters, he will get soaked for this on multiple levels, he's a producer for a movie that might not get finished and will be sued through every orifice.

It doesn’t matter if people talking about gun safety haven’t worked on a set like that. If you’ve been around guns long enough there’s an instinctual awareness you have of checking the gun no matter the situation. It’s just simply habit. There are real guns on set, they’re just loaded with blanks. Why live ammo was even on the set is baffling me

There’s more to this story and I believe you should read up on it, it’s been mentioned in here that there were already safety concerns on set. Producers and Armorer is where the responsibility and fault lies. 

[dawkins4prez]

11 hours ago, Dwide Schrude said:

It doesn’t matter if people talking about gun safety haven’t worked on a set like that. If you’ve been around guns long enough there’s an instinctual awareness you have of checking the gun no matter the situation. It’s just simply habit. There are real guns on set, they’re just loaded with blanks. Why live ammo was even on the set is baffling me

There’s more to this story and I believe you should read up on it, it’s been mentioned in here that there were already safety concerns on set. Producers and Armorer is where the responsibility and fault lies. 

There is definitely more to the story and I think Baldwin's production company is going to go down hard for what was clearly a dangerous and rule breaking work environment.  Why live ammo was even on the set is crazy.

 

As for the habit and the instinctual awareness, sorry but not buying.  Do you really believe that gun aficionados like John Wayne or Clint Eastwood check their guns every single time they get handed one on set?  I saw people lauding and posting Halle Berry, you really, seriously, think she checks her "cold guns" every time on set?  They literally have a person who's job is to check that, just like they have someone who does their makeup and carries their cellphone and takes their messages.  they trust these people every day with hundreds of tasks that you and I do daily.

 

FFS, don't be such doofuses and quit the chest beating.

[binkybink77]

Hollywood: we have to do something about gun violence in this country!

Hollywood fan boys: Errr derrr yOu cAN’t ExPEcT iMPorTaNt hOLlyWOoD STarS tO prAcTIce guN SAfeTY 

before they pull the trigger of a real gun in someone’s face  

[mr_hunt]

the folks trying to cast the blame on baldwin already don't like him because of his politics...their opinions are biased. 

[binkybink77]

2 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

the folks trying to cast the blame on baldwin already don't like him because of his politics...their opinions are biased. 

Or because he’s a homophobic, misogynistic **** bag who defends kiddie rapists. And honestly I do find it appalling for anyone to fire a weapon without checking it first. Even if paco, who knows how to handle firearms, told me to go ahead and pull the trigger of a gun I would STILL check it before pulling the trigger.

[Kz!]

14 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

Pretty sure everybody pounding their chests on gun safety have never worked on an action movie where you are getting handed guns, NONE of which are supposed to be loaded, a dozen times over the course of the day while trying to do their job which is, you know, acting.  This is ALL on the person who's literal job is to handle those props while a million other things are happening simultaneously on set.

 

But don't worry Baldwin haters, he will get soaked for this on multiple levels, he's a producer for a movie that might not get finished and will be sued through every orifice.

But you have? 

What films have you been in?

[dawkins4prez]

29 minutes ago, binkybink77 said:

Hollywood: we have to do something about gun violence in this country!

Hollywood fan boys: Errr derrr yOu cAN’t ExPEcT iMPorTaNt hOLlyWOoD STarS tO prAcTIce guN SAfeTY 

before they pull the trigger of a real gun in someone’s face  

The irony is certainly not lost on me.  Or more to the real core of it, Hollywood loves to denounce guns, and then turns around glamorizes them in all the films they make.

[Dwide Schrude]

2 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

There is definitely more to the story and I think Baldwin's production company is going to go down hard for what was clearly a dangerous and rule breaking work environment.  Why live ammo was even on the set is crazy.

 

As for the habit and the instinctual awareness, sorry but not buying.  Do you really believe that gun aficionados like John Wayne or Clint Eastwood check their guns every single time they get handed one on set?  I saw people lauding and posting Halle Berry, you really, seriously, think she checks her "cold guns" every time on set?  They literally have a person who's job is to check that, just like they have someone who does their makeup and carries their cellphone and takes their messages.  they trust these people every day with hundreds of tasks that you and I do daily.

 

FFS, don't be such doofuses and quit the chest beating.

If you don’t know, you just don’t know 

[Gannan]

16 hours ago, Shepard Wong said:

Someone forget to close the gate in CVON?

Trumpbots were holding back tears for 4 years every Saturday night while this man relentlessly mocked their orange god. Let them have their moment. 

[dawkins4prez]

1 hour ago, Dwide Schrude said:

If you don’t know, you just don’t know 

Ah.  Right.  Listen, I know you shot your first moose at the age of 5 with Uncle Wally's rifle and he taught you the sacred way of the gun.  And then he molested you in the backwoods and it was the best day of your life.  Cool story bro'.

 

But I'd like to know where are all the Gina Carranos and John Voights tweeting their rage at Baldwin for being a lib who doesn't know guns on sets?  CRICKETS.  Yeah, because they are ALL guilty of doing that and they know it.  This circle jerk narrative of Alec Baldwin, the lib who is stupid at guns, is a silly fever dream for gun enthusiasts.  The real story is Alex Baldwin, the PRODUCER of a company that was cutting corners on safety standards.  I'll even give you Alec Baldwin the liberal snowflake who denounces guns but makes his money glamorizing them in cowboy movies only to kill somebody by the same type of accident he critiques.

 

But by all means , continue the circle jerk.  Uncle Wally would be proud.

[mikemack8]

3 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Ah.  Right.  Listen, I know you shot your first moose at the age of 5 with Uncle Wally's rifle and he taught you the sacred way of the gun.  And then he molested you in the backwoods and it was the best day of your life.  Cool story bro'.

 

But I'd like to know where are all the Gina Carranos and John Voights tweeting their rage at Baldwin for being a lib who doesn't know guns on sets?  CRICKETS.  Yeah, because they are ALL guilty of doing that and they know it.  This circle jerk narrative of Alec Baldwin, the lib who is stupid at guns, is a silly fever dream for gun enthusiasts.  The real story is Alex Baldwin, the PRODUCER of a company that was cutting corners on safety standards.  I'll even give you Alec Baldwin the liberal snowflake who denounces guns but makes his money glamorizing them in cowboy movies only to kill somebody by the same type of accident he critiques.

 

But by all means , continue the circle jerk.  Uncle Wally would be proud.

Damn bro -  you're really triggered over Alec - you two related?