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Just now, Bacarty2 said:

You do realize a ton of Americans are ok with defunding(not eliminating)  Nato, not sending our kids to fight wars that arent ours and keeping our weaponry stateside right? 

Last I saw America was close to giving Nato a Billion dollars and no other country gave more then 100M. 

In fact, I bet defunding nato would get the majority of votes on both sides of the Isle. 

That's why we don't conduct foreign policy via referendum.  Presidents should be willing to take a political hit in order to defend America's interests.  Biden's certainly going to take one now.  I'm sure the majority of Americans would prefer us to not even bother with sanctions, since it'll be felt by Americans as well, but stepping aside and letting fascism spread isn't in our, or the world's, best interests.  Trump not only wasn't willing to stand up for our interests and take any political hit that came his way, he wasn't even willing to say anything that would upset a fascist tyrant.

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3 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

You do realize a ton of Americans are ok with defunding(not eliminating)  Nato, not sending our kids to fight wars that arent ours and keeping our weaponry stateside right? 

Last I saw America was close to giving Nato a Billion dollars and no other country gave more then 100M. 

In fact, I bet defunding nato would get the majority of votes on both sides of the Isle. 

Then a ton of Americans are truly uneducated and foolish (which is probably stating the obvious). NATO was created precisely for this moment in history: to keep Russia within its boundaries. Defund NATO and be prepared to watch horror in Europe (and ultimately in the U.S.).

The most foolish thing I learned growing up in the late 90s - early 2000s in the US was that the Cold War was over.

36 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Biden got the Lazy Vote in the last election. Difference maker of people who would never walk to, or drive to a polling station. 

So a Mail in ballot isnt the same thing as an in person no show

So a person who goes to the poll to vote is more important than one who mails a ballot in?

The Republican party has really brainwashed this country. They tend to win more when fewer people vote and they got their constituents to buy into this nonsense, hook line and sinker.

1 hour ago, Bacarty2 said:

yep and from all reports it looks like Euro and Russia laughed at those sanctions 

Dude, it was "Euro" (by which I assume you mean the EU, my newspeak is rusty) that held sanctions back.

The US, UK, Poland, and others were pushing for SWIFT cutoff and harsher sanctions. But sanctions don't work if everybody isn't on board. 

You can call it a failing on the part of Biden at not being able to convince Germany and Italy most specifically that the sanctions needed to cut deeper. That's fair.

But to say that Biden himself was weak in the sense that he didn't want harsher sanctions is just false.

And pretending the last guy in office would have been able to convince Germany to go along with cutting off Russia from SWIFT is laughable.

2 hours ago, Toastrel said:

Yeah, it is so clear on which side holds those with swastikas up when they march.

Batting 1000 with the pravda, comrade.

You see Not-zzz everywhere except for when someone shows you actual Not-zzz. 

Why is that, Azov? 

1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Dude, it was "Euro" (by which I assume you mean the EU, my newspeak is rusty) that held sanctions back.

The US, UK, Poland, and others were pushing for SWIFT cutoff and harsher sanctions. But sanctions don't work if everybody isn't on board. 

You can call if a failing in the part of Biden at not being able to convince Germany and Italy most specifically that the sanctions needed to cut deeper. That's fair.

But to say that Biden himself was weak in the sense that he didn't want harsher sanctions is just false.

And pretending the last guy in office would have been able to convince Germany to go along with cutting off Russia from SWIFT is laughable.

Germany’s position on Russia is probably the most troubling takeaway from this mess for me. 

1 hour ago, Bacarty2 said:

So why do you think Putin didnt invade during the Trump Era... serious question

I've answered it already in this thread, as did Vikas. We have somewhat different arguments but they're compatible and I would submit the truth is probably some mix of the two (and I'm sure others that we don't even have the information to speculate about like maybe what Putin's real grasp on power and the power dynamics behind closed doors in Russia looks like for example).

You can dig through if you want. I don't have the patience to answer the same stupid question from the 5th Trumplican in two days.

The Cold War is over in that the Soviet Union doesn’t exist.  Obviously a Putin-led Russia is still a problem though.

1 hour ago, Mike31mt said:

Trump had the "mad man" leverage that Biden will never have.  He knew how to wield his own reputation as a loose cannon 

The fact that your sycophancy includes Trump being a madman is .... well it's exactly what I would expect.

45 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Biden got the Lazy Vote in the last election. Difference maker of people who would never walk to, or drive to a polling station. 

So a Mail in ballot isnt the same thing as an in person no show

Oh ef off with that. Trump was getting the boot regardless. Stop with the excuse making, he lost because he sucked and was disliked by the majority of the voting public.

8 minutes ago, Abracadabra said:

You see Not-zzz everywhere except for when someone shows you actual Not-zzz. 

Why is that, Azov? 

Only you, or somebody as whacko as you, could see marching people with knot zee flags, and say, "I don't see no knot zees."

Except over there in Ukraine. The ones being murdered by Russian 'peacekeepers' in order to protect non-existent republics. You see those being murdered as knot zees.

 

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Guys, I think Russia is walking a tight rope here. If they quickly and cleanly take Ukraine with minimal civilian bloodshed, it looks like the West leaves them alone.

But if this thing gets messy (especially as they prepare to take the capital) and we start seeing pictures of the unthinkable, it’s only going to be a matter of time before we say screw it, NATO or not. For whatever reason, this last 36 hours have already been emotional for a lot of us - what happens when we start really seeing devastation? Feels eerily similar to how the US has been historically pulled into wars in Europe.

The thousand yard stare, the facial movements... this looks like a typical nursing home patient. 

 

1 hour ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Oh.  FML

 

@JohnSnowsHair  I can't apologize enough.  

 

The trump memes.  Kill me.  

Seriously, they're cracked.

When you actually on rare occasion get into policy debates here, you don't find the resident "lefties" to be very radical. Moss is the most left I'd guess, boogyman and JSDarkstar are the ones who might fall in some range of radical.

On the right I couldn't even say who I think is radical in terms of ideology. Because the right wingers here are basically Trumplicans who don't traffic in policy but in political party as your identity.  They are adherents to Trump the demagogue. I mean, the 2020 Republican platform was literally a single page that said "whatever Trump thinks we're in support of".

I'm sure individually they have policy positions, and I'll bet they aren't even particularly radical. But they've bought into tribal politics, and so anything that Biden or Dems do by definition must be "awful" and "destroying the country". They don't think in terms of policy, they have their narrative and either adjust or inject "facts" to support the narrative or they don't engage if the cognitive dissonance is too great to bear.

It's incredibly frustrating and sad what the base of the Republican party has become.

1 hour ago, birdman#12 said:

WW1 and WW2 taught the world nothing, especially Europe.

European weakness in all of this is most disappointing

9 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Yes, if you're too lazy to go stand in a line, go walk a couple blocks or even cut out of work early you shouldnt be allowed to vote. 

but the part of hand outs is gonna hand out

I mean with that logic, we should all be writing our responses to this thread on Midori paper with a quill pen and mailing them out to each other. Writing on a messageboard is too lazy. 

Just now, JohnSnowsHair said:

Seriously, they're cracked.

When you actually on rare occasion get into policy debates here, you don't find the resident "lefties" to be very radical. Moss is the most left I'd guess, boogyman and JSDarkstar are the ones who might fall in some range of radical.

On the right I couldn't even say who I think is radical in terms of ideology. Because the right wingers here are basically Trumplicans who don't traffic in policy but in political party as your identity.  They are adherents to Trump the demagogue. I mean, the 2020 Republican platform was literally a single page that said "whatever Trump thinks we're in support of".

I'm sure individually they have policy positions, and I'll bet they aren't even particularly radical. But they've bought into tribal politics, and so anything that Biden or Dems do by definition must be "awful" and "destroying the country". They don't think in terms of policy, they have their narrative and either adjust or inject "facts" to support the narrative or they don't engage if the cognitive dissonance is too great to bear.

It's incredibly frustrating and sad what the base of the Republican party has become.

The dude who defended Riot Kitchen and New York's liberal DA that's getting people murdered is bemoaning tribal politics. lol lmfao make it make sense.

1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

 

🤣

FFS

22 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

You do realize a ton of Americans are ok with defunding(not eliminating)  Nato, not sending our kids to fight wars that arent ours and keeping our weaponry stateside right? 

Last I saw America was close to giving Nato a Billion dollars and no other country gave more then 100M. 

In fact, I bet defunding nato would get the majority of votes on both sides of the Isle. 

image.thumb.png.1fdefcc6789e50528f1158561b4277c9.png

Just now, pallidrone said:

I mean with that logic, we should all be writing our responses to this thread on Midori paper with a quill pen and mailing them out to each other. Writing on a messageboard is too lazy. 

Yes, interacting on a message board is very comparable to voting in a presidential election. :lol: 

3 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

You dont believe that do you?

If they had mail in voting in 2009 Obama would of gotten  80M + probably closer to 85M. 

Trust me theres laziness in both parties but go to an inner city and see what your dealing with. Look at the numbers from inner cities over the last couple elections. 

I dont think Trump is come god but there is ZERO doubt in my mind he would of won with out mail in voting. WHICH IS WHY THE DEMS PUSHED IT SO BLEEPING HARD

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Another child tugging at shirt sleeves, begging for attention.

1 minute ago, Thrive said:

Guys, I think Russia is walking a tight rope here. If they quickly and cleanly take Ukraine with minimal civilian bloodshed, it looks like the West leaves them alone.

But if this thing gets messy (especially as they prepare to take the capital) and we start seeing pictures of the unthinkable, it’s only going to be a matter of time before we say screw it, NATO or not. For whatever reason, this last 36 hours have already been emotional for a lot of us - what happens when we start really seeing devastation? Feels eerily similar to how the US has been historically pulled into wars in Europe.

Yes. Russia is grasping at any sense of dominance. In a world dominated by US, Europe, China, Japan, India... Russia is losing ground.

What is their end goal? Do they want to control the Donbas? Europe and the West wants Russia and Ukraine to solve this diplomatically. Putin ignored them and went for the land grab by force. Where does it stop? If the fighting stops now, there's relatively little harm done. Each side retreats to its secure borders and diplomacy resumes. Does Putin want to control Ukraine, halt democracy and install a puppet? That's a problem. Does Putin aim for even more? To fracture alliances and weaken the West? Could get really messy before it's all over.

14 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

The fact that your sycophancy includes Trump being a madman is .... well it's exactly what I would expect.

Youre being obtuse, don't play games, you know what I meant and its true

5 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

You dont believe that do you?

If they had mail in voting in 2009 Obama would of gotten  80M + probably closer to 85M. 

Trust me theres laziness in both parties but go to an inner city and see what your dealing with. Look at the numbers from inner cities over the last couple elections. 

I dont think Trump is come god but there is ZERO doubt in my mind he would of won with out mail in voting. WHICH IS WHY THE DEMS PUSHED IT SO BLEEPING HARD

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