March 1, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, VanHammersly said: A full-scale invasion wasn't the action of a rational man. Incremental territorial claims, like he was doing with Donbas would've been rational. This was stupid. It was absolutely rational. Half hearted measures against Ukraine would have just driven them straight into NATO’s arms. This was an all or nothing situation for Putin. He wants to rebuild the soviet empire, albeit without the communism, and Ukraine was the crown jewel in his eyes. The US is weak, he saw an opportunity, and he executed on it. Stupid would have been doing this 20 years ago or 20 years from now when Ukraine was part of NATO.
March 1, 20223 yr 5 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: The sanctions that Biden pushed for and got are crippling Russia right now. Pretending like he hasn't played this well is a little silly at this point. Great, so did the rest of the world. If you want to know why countries are getting more involved that's on President Z. He is the one bringing them together. He is the one that helped push the SWIFT thing with Germany. He is pushing for the weapons. He is inspiring the world. Not criticizing Biden, but the credit is going where it is due. Anything less seems disrespectful considering what he is doing.
March 1, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, DrPhilly said: You don't. For sure there is an incredible amount of propaganda being thrown out there by the west as well. Just have to try to sift thru it as best you can. Can you post some examples of Western propaganda? Just curious.
March 1, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, TEW said: It was absolutely rational. Half hearted measures against Ukraine would have just driven them straight into NATO’s arms. This was an all or nothing situation for Putin. He wants to rebuild the soviet empire, albeit without the communism, and Ukraine was the crown jewel in his eyes. The US is weak, he saw an opportunity, and he executed on it. Stupid would have been doing this 20 years ago or 20 years from now when Ukraine was part of NATO. I wouldn't be so sure Ukraine would've been a part of NATO 20 years from now. But now the result is every other country that he doesn't want in will likely get in, Russia's economy will be decimated, he'll be isolated and bogged down trying to hold onto territory engaged in guerrilla warfare against him. If this was his plan, it was unbelievably stupid.
March 1, 20223 yr 9 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: Great, so did the rest of the world. If you want to know why countries are getting more involved that's on President Z. He is the one bringing them together. He is the one that helped push the SWIFT thing with Germany. He is pushing for the weapons. He is inspiring the world. Not criticizing Biden, but the credit is going where it is due. Anything less seems disrespectful considering what he is doing. Obviously Zelinsky's been awesome. But more than one person can be doing a good job simultaneously. There's really no better way Biden could've played this since the invasion. It took a couple days, but he (along with Zelensky and the other pro-SWIFT sanctions nations) got Germany on board to implement the full sanctions, got Germany to increase their military spending and contributions to NATO, has contributed more support and weapons to Ukraine than any other country and we haven't used our military. It's been a great job.
March 1, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, VanHammersly said: I wouldn't be so sure Ukraine would've been a part of NATO 20 years from now. But now the result is every other country that he doesn't want in will likely get in, Russia's economy will be decimated, he'll be isolated and bogged down trying to hold onto territory engaged in guerrilla warfare against him. If this was his plan, it was unbelievably stupid. The economic concerns would have already been calculated into his decision. This is what Putin did professionally for the KGB. He’s a lot of things, but stupid or short sighted isn’t one of them. I also don’t think the chances of an Iraq situation are nearly as high. Ukraine and Russia are very similar countries and Putin sees them as brothers of the Russian people. There are a LOT of ethnically Russian people living in Ukraine and many more who support Russia over the west. Ukraine is the most important aspect of his plans. Giving up, say, Finland is a trade he’s more than happy to make. Also, don’t discount the knock on effects of these sanctions pushing countries out of the dollar system. It could have a lot of implications down the line if a parallel economic and monetary system develops in the East and South.
March 1, 20223 yr 8 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Can you post some examples of Western propaganda? Just curious. I don't know if it's "propaganda" but I'll admit that I'm hearing and reading way more headlines about the losses taken by Russias military than deaths of Ukrainian soldiers and civilians. So I'm assuming that we westerners are ensuring that the more "positive" takes are being heard than the negative. Although if that Russian convoy ever makes its way forward, that all might flip.
March 1, 20223 yr 37 minutes ago, Paul852 said: Wait, let me get this straight. In order to prevent Russia invading Ukraine, Biden should have blackmailed Ukraine and withheld military aid to them? Google "humor" Biden is trash and a failure
March 1, 20223 yr 4 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: Obviously Zelinsky's been awesome. But more than one person can be doing a good job simultaneously. There's really no better way Biden could've played this since the invasion. It took a couple days, but he (along with Zelensky and the other pro-SWIFT sanctions nations) got Germany on board to implement the full sanctions, got Germany to increase their military spending and contributions to NATO, has contributed more support and weapons to Ukraine than any other country and we haven't used our military. It's been a great job. Pretty much. Biden’s failings were pre invasion. After the fact, he’s done what he could.
March 1, 20223 yr Ghost of Kiev, the Snake Island people, female snipers taking out 758 Russian troops, etc. etc. There's been a lot of wartime propaganda floating out there.
March 1, 20223 yr 11 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Can you post some examples of Western propaganda? Just curious. i'm not necessarily buying those videos of "captured russian soldiers calling home and saying they thought this was just an exercise but it's actually a war and we are the agressors"....that have been floating around social media.
March 1, 20223 yr 14 minutes ago, TEW said: The economic concerns would have already been calculated into his decision. This is what Putin did professionally for the KGB. He’s a lot of things, but stupid or short sighted isn’t one of them. I also don’t think the chances of an Iraq situation are nearly as high. Ukraine and Russia are very similar countries and Putin sees them as brothers of the Russian people. There are a LOT of ethnically Russian people living in Ukraine and many more who support Russia over the west. Ukraine is the most important aspect of his plans. Giving up, say, Finland is a trade he’s more than happy to make. Also, don’t discount the knock on effects of these sanctions pushing countries out of the dollar system. It could have a lot of implications down the line if a parallel economic and monetary system develops in the East and South. The chance of that happening are equally as high, if not higher. It doesn't take very many people to create an insurgent force (though judging by the resistance in Ukraine there's a whole lot of Ukrainians more than ready to fight the Russians) and the insurgents in Ukraine will be well armed and financed by us.
March 1, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, mr_hunt said: i'm not necessarily buying those videos of "captured russian soldiers calling home and saying they thought this was just an exercise but it's actually a war and we are the agressors"....that have been floating around social media.
March 1, 20223 yr 16 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Can you post some examples of Western propaganda? Just curious. Most of the news coming out doesn’t show Ukrainian losses, which have been almost as high as the Russian losses.
March 1, 20223 yr A partition of Ukraine is the likely outcome. Eastern Ukraine will be Russian in one way or another. Western Ukraine will probably be slit between Poland and Hungary. The other option is Russia takes the whole thing and forces anti-Russians out into Europe as refugees.
March 1, 20223 yr 22 minutes ago, TEW said: It was absolutely rational. Half hearted measures against Ukraine would have just driven them straight into NATO’s arms. This was an all or nothing situation for Putin. He wants to rebuild the soviet empire, albeit without the communism, and Ukraine was the crown jewel in his eyes. The US is weak, he saw an opportunity, and he executed on it. Stupid would have been doing this 20 years ago or 20 years from now when Ukraine was part of NATO. This was an utter fail for Putin. He's driving Finland into NATO's arms for starters. Kosovo is asking for entry to NATO and a US military base. Germany is increasing its military spending. If he didn't know Ukraine would resist Russian occupation he's an idiot. And I don't think anybody quite thinks he's that. Rebuilding the Soviet Empire is in and of itself irrational. Whatever gain he would get from dominating Ukraine would be lost many times over trying to occupy and subjugate its population, and even a tepid response from the West would have been painful - and the response has been anything but (which a rational person would know is still a risk). There is nothing rational about this move. Wanting to take a country to serve some romanticized end of rebuilding a failed communist state is not rational. To me your stance is entirely about framing the US as "weak". Biden has been anything but weak.
March 1, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, TEW said: I read that Finland is considering joining NATO. That would be my move if I had a say. Bring in every other at risk state. It’s the only way to truly prevent this kind of aggression. Agreed. Finland has stated their goal is membership by 2015. I would think the invasion of Ukraine only speeds up their timeline.
March 1, 20223 yr 15 minutes ago, TEW said: The economic concerns would have already been calculated into his decision. This is what Putin did professionally for the KGB. He’s a lot of things, but stupid or short sighted isn’t one of them. I also don’t think the chances of an Iraq situation are nearly as high. Ukraine and Russia are very similar countries and Putin sees them as brothers of the Russian people. There are a LOT of ethnically Russian people living in Ukraine and many more who support Russia over the west. Ukraine is the most important aspect of his plans. Giving up, say, Finland is a trade he’s more than happy to make. Also, don’t discount the knock on effects of these sanctions pushing countries out of the dollar system. It could have a lot of implications down the line if a parallel economic and monetary system develops in the East and South. This point was clearly a miscalculation. And a rational person would have known that. An irrational person who has bought into their own propaganda might though. But now we're not talking about a rational person. 2014 happened whether Putin wants to accept it or now. The Ukrainian people were pushing the nation towards the West. Putin couldn't stand that, that is why he struck. It's not rational no matter how you try to spin it.
March 1, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, Gannan said: Agreed. Finland has stated their goal is membership by 2015. I would think the invasion of Ukraine only speeds up their timeline. Going to be tough to reach that one
March 1, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, Gannan said: Agreed. Finland has stated their goal is membership by 2015. I would think the invasion of Ukraine only speeds up their timeline. Certainly need to speed up their DeLorean to 88mph first.
March 1, 20223 yr ABC on facebook shared this link lol https://www.ready.gov/nuclear-explosion Awkward
March 1, 20223 yr 15 minutes ago, TEW said: Pretty much. Biden’s failings were pre invasion. After the fact, he’s done what he could. BS. Biden was beating the drum with allies since October. The US was the one who was adamant that this time it was different, that the invasion was imminent, and that intelligence was dead-on. Biden coordinated a lot of the response to the invasion in the last couple months. Those sanctions did not come together in a matter of days by magic, those sanctions took time to plan for. Those plans were in place pre-invasion. The downplaying of how well Biden has handled this situation is ridiculous.
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