4 minutes ago, Procus said:

Russia will not agree to Ukraine's admission into NATO, and NATO shouldn't either.

Then its a hard pass as Russia has shown its refusal to follow its promises.

Mexico not joining in on sanctions. I guess they are saving up for the wall they have build?

3 minutes ago, Procus said:

Russia will not agree to Ukraine's admission into NATO, and NATO shouldn't either.

Think that ship sailed when Russia invaded, no? Meaning, going forward, Ukraine has no assurances that Russia won’t invade in the future to claim the remaining parts of Ukraine. It’s either Ukraine joins the EU/NATO or Russia might as well just annex the whole thing now.

It’s a complete mess and I’m not seeing easy resolutions now.

6 minutes ago, Procus said:

Russia will not agree to Ukraine's admission into NATO, and NATO shouldn't either.

Russia doesn't get a vote.

4 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

Did you go to school with Tucker? One can almost hear how hard he makes you.

Dude, I’m totally against Russia’s invasion. This is a tragedy and an incredibly dangerous situation.

But I do understand Putin’s world view. Understanding an enemy’s motivations is kind of important. People keep saying this was stupid, and from an American perspective it is. But it’s really not when you understand Putin’s world view and motivations.

In reference to Russia's finances in posts above, a coworker mentioned an article in Bloomsberg about Putin and how much money does he himself have and how did he go about getting it.

Here's a link to the article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbeswealthteam/2022/01/27/as-biden-mulls-sanctions-three-theories--on-how-putin-makes-his-millions/?sh=749b24035b43

THEORY ONE: THE KHODORKOVSKY MODEL

Forbes’ journey down the rat hole began with research into Russian billionaires, starting in 1997, and a cover story by Klebnikov that we ran in 2002 profiling a rising Russian oligarch named Mikhail Khodorkovsky. At the time, his company, Yukos, accounted for 17% of Russia’s oil production and was seen as having significant influence in the Kremlin. He was personally worth $3.7 billion and was Russia’s richest man. One of his former employees was once minister of fuel and energy. Another was Putin’s then-deputy chief of staff. Khodorkovsky’s fortune doubled over the next year. By October 2003, he was in jail, convicted of fraud and tax evasion (which he denied).

There was little doubt that Putin was behind his arrest, the freezing of his fortune and the eventual breakup of his company. Khodorkovsky’s fate was a powerful lesson to other Russian oligarchs. Yet the question remains: How much of Khodorkovsky’s fortune did Putin take for himself?

One person who has been following this story for years, Bill Browder, an American financier who’s conducted a lot of business in Russia and is behind the Magnitsky laws that enable governments to impose targeted sanctions on human rights offenders by freezing their assets, insists that after Putin arrested Khodorkovsky, he made a deal with the country’s leading oligarchs. 

"The deal was, ‘You give me 50% of your wealth and I’ll let you keep the other 50%,’” says Browder. "If you don’t, he’ll take 100% of your wealth and throw you in jail.” 

Based on that math, Browder calculated in 2017 that Putin was worth $200 billion, which would have made him the richest person in the world at the time. Browder’s calculation was simple: He added up the net worths of all the Russian oligarchs and divided by two.  

Pyotr Aven–who heads Russia’s largest private-sector bank, and who Forbes estimates to be worth $4.8 billion– lent credence to that theory when he told Robert Mueller, as part of his special counsel investigation into 2016 election interference, that he was one of 50 Russian businesspeople who regularly meet with Putin at the Kremlin. "Aven said that he took these meetings seriously and understood that any suggestions or critiques that Putin made during these meetings were implicit directives, and that there would be consequences for Aven if he did not follow through,” the Mueller report reads.

 

Could totally see Putin doing this as he's is that type of ruthless bully.  Makes many enemies that way, but if true then he'd have more money than all/most of them combined and the might of the government and army so they're also probably afraid of him and do nothing about it.

Theory 2 , for those of you who don't care to read the article, was the Mafia Model where he gets kickbacks and cuts from all sorts of business contracts just like mobsters have been doing for ages.  Theory 3 is that he doesn't have much money himself, more the illusion of being rich and powerful and does have the entire country at his disposal so he snaps his fingers when he wants something and he gets it.

 

2 minutes ago, Thrive said:

Think that ship sailed when Russia invaded, no? Meaning, going forward, Ukraine has no assurances that Russia won’t invade in the future to claim the remaining parts of Ukraine. It’s either Ukraine joins the EU/NATO or Russia might as well just annex the whole thing now.

It’s a complete mess and I’m not seeing easy resolutions now.

I think the way out involves an East Germany situation with Ukraine and a treaty that forbids Ukraine from joining NATO. But yeah at this point he Putin may just say F it and take the whole country.

13 minutes ago, TEW said:

And they have more now.

Putin wasn’t convinced Ukraine wouldn’t join NATO and they’d rather control the pathway to their country and capital.

Ukraine is one of the largest producers of wheat in the world. It’s the breadbasket of Europe.

Again, Putin does not subscribe to the western Atlanticist mindset that values trade so highly. This is more about national security for him.

His goals are imperialistic, not anything to do with western neo-liberalism. In that context, he’s achieving his aims.

Russia is the largest exporter of wheat in the world. They clearly trade with countries, thinking they don’t or don’t care about it is just ignorant. Oil, wheat, and plenty of other goods are exported by Russia in trade. They had national security by not invading Ukraine, try and hold Ukraine as Russian and you no longer have national security. He caused more insecurity than anything. Putin clearly did not expect this kind of resistance. His soldiers are starving, reports are they had 3 days worth of food with many surrendering to Ukraine just to eat. This is all a net loss for Putin and Russia. 

8 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Russia doesn't get a vote.

I, too, was confused by the insistence that Russia would block it.

Ukraine’s Secret Weapon Against Russia: Turkish Drones

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-s-secret-weapon-against-russia-turkish-drones/ar-AAUtZco?ocid=BingNews

 

Why doesn't Russia own the air?

8 minutes ago, TEW said:

Dude, I’m totally against Russia’s invasion. This is a tragedy and an incredibly dangerous situation.

But I do understand Putin’s world view. Understanding an enemy’s motivations is kind of important. People keep saying this was stupid, and from an American perspective it is. But it’s really not when you understand Putin’s world view and motivations.

Just pointing out your keen insight into the world view and motivations of this guy seems to be causing you wood.

India sending a C17 Globemaster into the theatre.......

2 hours ago, Bill said:

She’s like the female Dan Quayle. 

He’s not steamrolling. He’s behind his own timeline. Kyiv should have been take. Last week. 

Except it’s not going well for him. It’s not going well for the Ukrainians, but it’s not going well for him either. He gambled that he could shock and awe with only light infantry, without using the combined arms that shock and awe requires. Russia doesn’t have the stockpile of precision munitions that we had in Iraq either. They have essentially none left. Which is why the Kyiv transmission tower was being targeted by indirect fire. If if were us that tower would have been hit by a JDAM on hour one and knocked out. They’re stuck using arty and their logistics aren’t warfighters. 
 

Hell, they were trying to take and hold territory with airborne troops without having air superiority. Nobody does that ever, because it’s a sure fire way to get some of your best troops killed, which it did. 
 

Simply put, they don’t have the force projection capabilities that they needed, and even resorting to total war they’re still not advancing at the pace they need to in order to guarantee a victory. 

The map you’re using is confusing holding MSRs with holding large swaths of terrain. 

The war is a week old dude. The idea that he’d have control of the whole country in 2 days is absurd and not something that any Russian general would have ever suggested.

No, Russia is NOT using shock and awe tactics and they’re CERTAINLY not going with a total war approach. No idea where you got that idea from. They want to take Ukraine intact.

If they wanted to go the total war approach, Kiev would look like Grozny.

1 minute ago, TEW said:

The war is a week old dude. The idea that he’d have control of the whole country in 2 days is absurd and not something that any Russian general would have ever suggested.

No, Russia is NOT using shock and awe tactics and they’re CERTAINLY not going with a total war approach. No idea where you got that idea from. They want to take Ukraine intact.

If they wanted to go the total war approach, Kiev would look like Grozny.

Yeah you're totally not trying to fit the facts to the conclusion you already made. /s

10 minutes ago, TEW said:

Dude, I’m totally against Russia’s invasion. This is a tragedy and an incredibly dangerous situation.

But I do understand Putin’s world view. Understanding an enemy’s motivations is kind of important. People keep saying this was stupid, and from an American perspective it is. But it’s really not when you understand Putin’s world view and motivations.

This 100%. Unfortunately, if you make any reference to Russia's motivations for invading beyond agreeing with the consensus that it's solely because Putin is a cartoonishly evil supervillain who has literally gone crazy because of the time he spent in isolation with Covid, someone will literally accuse you of wanting to have sex with Putin. 

11 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said:

Russia is the largest exporter of wheat in the world. They clearly trade with countries, thinking they don’t or don’t care about it is just ignorant. Oil, wheat, and plenty of other goods are exported by Russia in trade. They had national security by not invading Ukraine, try and hold Ukraine as Russian and you no longer have national security. He caused more insecurity than anything. Putin clearly did not expect this kind of resistance. His soldiers are starving, reports are they had 3 days worth of food with many surrendering to Ukraine just to eat. This is all a net loss for Putin and Russia. 

No one said they don’t care about trade at all, the point is that it isn’t as important to Putin as it is to western leaders and his ambitions make trade a secondary issue.

Unfortunately, Russia and Putin did not agree with you that they had national security with Ukraine. They felt Ukraine would be incorporated into the EU and eventually NATO. And frankly, he’s probably right to have believed that.

And this is the problem — no one bothers understanding the viewpoint of Putin so you are all perplexed by his actions. They make total sense within his world view.

The teenager that tracked Elon Musk's jet is now tracking Russian oligarchs

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-teenager-that-tracked-elon-musk-s-jet-is-now-tracking-russian-oligarchs/ar-AAUvJIa?ocid=BingNews

Quote

"The aircrafts these oligarchs have are absolutely crazy," Sweeney said. The country's richest are traveling on commercial-sized aircrafts like an Airbus A319 and Boeing 737. "Their planes are huge compared to other jets."

In total, the accounts track more than 40 planes and helicopters linked to Russian oligarchs. He has invited others to help bolster the amount of planes that can be tracked.

 

Microcosm of how things are going for Russia in Ukraine.

7 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I, too, was confused by the insistence that Russia would block it.

The Trumpbots in here seem to think that Russia is all powerful (and of course Putin's probably the smartest man that ever lived, but they're totally not praising him ), but if Russia/Ukraine were to come to a peace agreement that included Ukraine not joining NATO, it would be incredibly easy for Ukraine to do a 180 and join NATO the second Russian forces were gone.  In fact, considering how this war has gone for both sides and the massive support Ukraine has among NATO countries, it would be a near guarantee.

22 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Russia doesn't get a vote.

This situation is their vote…

8 minutes ago, Kz! said:

This 100%. Unfortunately, if you make any reference to Russia's motivations for invading beyond agreeing with the consensus that it's solely because Putin is a cartoonishly evil supervillain who has literally gone crazy because of the time he spent in isolation with Covid, someone will literally accuse you of wanting to have sex with Putin. 

 "Legitimate grievances"

Just now, Paul852 said:

 "Legitimate grievances"

Paul is still crying like a ****. Totally shocking.  

6 minutes ago, TEW said:

No one said they don’t care about trade at all, the point is that it isn’t as important to Putin as it is to western leaders and his ambitions make trade a secondary issue.

Unfortunately, Russia and Putin did not agree with you that they had national security with Ukraine. They felt Ukraine would be incorporated into the EU and eventually NATO. And frankly, he’s probably right to have believed that.

And this is the problem — no one bothers understanding the viewpoint of Putin so you are all perplexed by his actions. They make total sense within his world view.

You’re also assuming he was scared they would join nato and the eu. He has said before he wants to bring back the ussr. This is all about ego and him wanting Russia to look strong but he just looks weak and pathetic. 

I am admittedly a neophyte in this area, but it’s been 80 years since Hiroshima. If the U.S. has not developed reliable technology that can go a very long way into nullifying Russia’s nuclear technology, I’m going to lose my mind (and probably my body).

With all the taxes we pay and the amount of money expended on our military, if they spent those resources building cool planes that can bomb Iraq and Afghanistan…